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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Module for Not showing up in Local? (edit: +Ewar/ Intel market option)

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Steiv Dallas
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#1 - 2014-03-17 15:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Steiv Dallas
I've seen a lot of posts by people who like to ambush who want to be able to not show up in local, especially when cloaked. Rather than make a whole game mechanic on this, why not have a module in the appropriate slot that turns off your "transponder". You don't show up in local, but you are not cloaked and can be targetted, etc. Some who want easier ganks won't like this, I'm sure, but it would be an option to make more choices of how to fit. Do I mount a cloak and a local blocker at the expense of module x? Maybe have the option of using the blocker without a cloak?

Maybe this could have the additional benefit of allowing you to run missions against factions without losing standing because they don't know who you are? Could be interesting....
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#2 - 2014-03-17 16:12:08 UTC
Wow.

Not sure how to best explain this, but the idea of any module interfering with local has many people dead set against it.

Local intel is their sacred cow, and they want this intel to be absolutely reliable, despite the secondary effects and so on.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Steiv Dallas
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#3 - 2014-03-17 16:15:38 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Wow.

Not sure how to best explain this, but the idea of any module interfering with local has many people dead set against it.

Local intel is their sacred cow, and they want this intel to be absolutely reliable, despite the secondary effects and so on.


Well, just a thought. Seen a lot of posts requesting a blanket change, but this makes the user weigh options. There could even be counter blocker options that could be mounted to spot blocked transponders and perhaps additional options for identifying the pilot using it. Could make electronic warfare more interesting.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-03-17 16:20:14 UTC
A lot of those requests have been repeated many times, But people do not use the search tool. The whole cycle starts over again when one or two people start new threads for it.
Steiv Dallas
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#5 - 2014-03-17 16:23:02 UTC
Rowells wrote:
A lot of those requests have been repeated many times, But people do not use the search tool. The whole cycle starts over again when one or two people start new threads for it.


Granted I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but I did do a forum search for module block local and came up with nothing, so I assumed that this particular option had not been brought up.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#6 - 2014-03-17 16:27:44 UTC
Steiv Dallas wrote:
Rowells wrote:
A lot of those requests have been repeated many times, But people do not use the search tool. The whole cycle starts over again when one or two people start new threads for it.


Granted I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but I did do a forum search for module block local and came up with nothing, so I assumed that this particular option had not been brought up.


It is not so much that nobody considers this direction, but those that seek to limit local to it's basic chat function also tend to not see it as a legitimate intended source of intel.

By creating a module, you place local in the game itself, and not above or below it, by letting game elements change and affect it.

Those seeking to reduce local often don't want to grant it such a legitimate position, while those seeking to preserve it don't want it diminished in any way.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Steiv Dallas
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#7 - 2014-03-17 17:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Steiv Dallas
Hmm... Thinking about how the device could work, there could be two components, which make the player go even further to decide how badly he wants to be hidden from local: For instance, there could be two modules involved. One module that is fitted to mid or low slots that blocks the transponder from identifying the player, but the user would still show up as an "unknown" in local. This could be used to block faction standing loss during faction missions, give players with low sec status a way to get back into hi sec (unless Concord starts mounting hackers- perhaps you have a limited time in hi sec before they break your transponder?), give some uncertainty to who may be in system, and also give a target to others who may want to try to crack the transponder.

This opens another game play option. Lets say that transponder blockers have a unique signature, and that once they are broken by someone using the appropriate hacking module, they no longer work (buy a new one). More interesting work for hacker/scout types.

The second module would be a hi slot module that would need to be fitted along with the other module if you wanted to be completely blocked from local. Staying out of local would be a tougher choice because you'd lose two slots.

I think the hacking opportunities for this would be very interesting. I'd like to see more depth to the electronic warfare options in Eve.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2014-03-17 17:49:10 UTC
The part I am now seeing, with some amusement, is that you are effectively splitting the cloak into two separate aspects.

You have what seems to be an ECM oriented cloak, which deprives local chat of knowing to list you.
(The other half being the existing conventional cloaks, which block the overview and direct observation)

Despite your not saying these are the same object, you are creating the exact effect which was passionately argued against.

You place a burden onto system residents to monitor their own system, requiring an effort from them to do so.
That is specifically what they reject, claiming that it makes cloaking overpowered.

Considering I see no option here to actually counter cloaking itself, you could in theory do some things that other players would feel exploited by.

We have some quite vocal players who reject any attempt to force an effort requirement in this fashion.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2014-03-17 18:48:21 UTC
There are a lot of "sacred cows" stifling innovation in this game, particularly local - but also extending to elements like the overview, D-scan, etc.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Notorious Fellon
#10 - 2014-03-17 18:51:02 UTC
If you want a place to fly where you don't show up on local, fly into a wormhole. Any wormhole.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Dave Stark
#11 - 2014-03-17 19:02:45 UTC
it's called a probe launcher.

W-space is -----> that way
Steiv Dallas
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#12 - 2014-03-17 19:10:11 UTC
Not personally concerned about being in local, I was just thinking about the added range of options and new play dynamics if information became more of a real time use in the game. Rather than a blanket effect on local, something that has to be decided on, weighed against and then provides options for a counter attack. Yeah, sacred cows can be pretty big beasts to move.

Was even thinking that there could be a new market option, selling information. Rather than breaking the transponder, the hacker would have the code to open it up. Anyone with the ID would be able to see the user in local. Hacker players could work to find blocker users, crack them and then sell the lists. Players would be able to keep using the blocker and may or may not know if they are cracked.
Torijace
The Upside Down
#13 - 2014-03-17 19:11:31 UTC
It's interesting really the local channel hasn't really evolved in the last 10 years or so. In the beginning to my understanding local didn't exist or existed as a regular chat channel.. but at the time the game population was like 1k and so people had a hard time finding each other to interact with... Now fast forward to modern eve and the local channel and its no longer hard to find systems with people in them.. but local channel still exists and has created an easy way to avoid engagements and to judge opposition strength. Some people prefer this, I have always liked the idea of getting Intel from a radar type system or even d-scan.

As to the idea... it doesn't really solve the issue and puts more of a band-aid on the problem but anything that pushes Intel to be less binary and more complex is a good thing in my book +1
Steiv Dallas
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#14 - 2014-03-18 13:52:14 UTC
Well, some people think any changes to the existing system would be catastrophic, others want to do away with it completely. I like to find ways to make changes that could introduce new ways to play. I think cracking and selling transponder blocker IDs could be pretty interesting, especially for giving new life to the hacking skill. There'd have to be some thought to how the transponder is cracked. For instance, at what range can you start working on it? I'd say that within 14 AU gives a slight chance, higher as you get closer, and highest if you can target lock the user.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#15 - 2014-03-18 17:48:27 UTC
As there already is a quite active and recent thread on the topic of local, this thread gets a lock.

The rules:
16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)