Science & Industry

There's enough researched blueprints out there that I just see the researcher taking the hit rather than being able to pass the research cost to the consumer.

would this just be for copy/ME jobs or all jobs? massively increasing the cost of invention lines would be catastrophic to small time inventors, who already invent stuff at half the rate of a pos. And the increased cost of BPCs would be a double-whammy for them. I see this as a very undesirable outcome. Established researches with poses would be happy to meet the extra demand for BPCs, but you can't sell an invention slot on the market, and its not like station invention slots are in super-high demand.

IMO leave PE and invention slot cost alone.

i endorse this product and/or service

if you want to move science and manufacturing away from highsec you need to increase the cost that is associated with highsec production. right now things happen FASTER in nullsec, but certainly not cheaper. they need to be CHEAPER for things to change. transportation cost is the same for every product, no matter how fast it is made. that needs to change since transport is what's eating margins

I've said for years that jammed station slot pricing should be demand driven just like station rents.

Wouldn't bother me at all, but I'm glad that you realized it could hurt the newer industrialists.

Though I really don't have an opinion on what the fees should be, I would like to see standing and perhaps skills have more of an effect on reducing them.

yes we should increase the rate to at least 500k/hr...

You do realize that people with POS's will make even more isk with these changes right? and @ 33k isk/hr is more than some Items sell for after they are manufactured?

You are saying "don't bother manufacturing anything until you can afford a POS in hisec"

Sounds like a wonderful idea to me

I have a feeling you overestimate the price increases.

Remember that a POS manufacturer has to pay for fuel costs. So it isn't like they get to ignore these costs. With the price I proposed, the fuel costs of running a medium tower for 1 hour are equivalent to running 10 Station MFG Lines for 1 hour. While you can put more than 10 lines on a medium tower, your tower is susceptible to attack (wardecs), and must also include defenses or it WILL be attacked. And since you can't stop a job that's started, a wardec has a pretty big chance of catching your MFG POS with lots of loot inside it (which you can't empty after your POS is attacked and put into RF). A POS also requires alot more effort to anchor and maintain than moving minerals to a station and building there.

Because of these downsides, I figure most players will not move to a POS, but it rewards those that do with potentially cheaper rates, although by my estimate not a hugely different value. Let's look at some specific examples to give you an indication:

1.) Lets look at a BS. It's build time is 5 hours (before skills and research). The 33k / hr line cost would add 250 k isk to its final price. Most people wouldn't even notice that... If you MFG this at the POS instead, the added fuel cost would be roughly 125k isk, allowing the POS producer to build the battleships for net savings of 125k isk/battleship.

2.) Lets look at a typical t1 module (like a 200mm autocannon 1, or a heavy neutron blaster I, or a warp scrambler). These have a 10 minute base build time, so the 33k isk /hr line cost would increase the price of these by 6k isk per unit. While while this is a big price increase for some units (small guns, omni tracking units), it is hardly noticeable for your larger items. Using the POS to build will save you 3k per unit. This is noticeable on some things, but negligible on most.

3.) Lets look at a capital module: These normally have a 25 hr build time, so the cost of a Capital Cap Transfer would increase by almost 1m isk. While not completely negligible, these values are often very small compared to sell price. The POS manufacture would save about 500k per item over the station manufacturer.

4.) Lets look at a small rig: These normally take 25 minutes build time, so your looking at a 16k increase in rig cost. A medium rig takes 50 minutes to build, so a 28k increase in rig cost. The POS manufacturer would produce items 8k isk and 14k isk cheaper for the small and medium rigs.

These prices are significant in cutthroat markets, but well below profit margins in many markets. This rewards the player that puts their stuff at risk, but also empowers you if you you don't. If you find some competition has an advantage over you because the utilize a POS, you can have them wardecced to stifle their manufacturing processes.

The cost would simply be passed on to the "customer", as all increases in costs (over the years) have been passed on.

But sure, why not. We need a new crop of threads whining about the time needed to farm more ISK just to be able to "do stuff" in EVE....



Better to just magnify the effects of a pilots personal Standings and let the rewards/punishment fall where they may, rather than screwing the entire economy of EVE for no constructive reason. Players can already do that.

I'd support increasing the cost of ME research on more expensive BPOs.

Example:
On a 1 million ISK BPO, leave the ME research cost as-is.
On a 20m BPO, increase the ME cost by a factor of 5
On a 1600m BPO, increase it by a factor of 40.

The long research jobs are the ones that tie up the slots so long that you see the current queues, and it's expensive BPOs that get long, long research jobs performed on them multiple times.

Standings are much harder for newbies to get than the sorts of levels of ISK we are talking here.

Assume the prices are raised to 50 times present prices. That would make it ~600k ISK per research line per day. For a short reseach job, that isn't much to a new player - the only BPOs that would be really, really hammered hard by this change would be cruiser/destroyer BPOs and mineral compression module BPOs.

If it incentivises existing industrialists to move their operations to POSes, however, it will help the newbies a LOT by freeing up those public slots.

What? I regularly make between 500k and 1m+ an hour on T1 stuff.