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why listen tp pvp wormholers over pve?
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Calmatt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-03-14 03:52:33 UTC
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
I agree, it does seem there are more in WH space at the moment. Likely due to the slight safety the new overlay brought. The removal of which is the point of y rant.


If you had actually listened to the podcast, we simply stated we wanted the AUTOMATIC, NO INPUT-REQUIRING refresher removed. We also explicitly referred to when old loki pilots for cap escalations would fit probe launchers to check for sigs. We simply want the No-risk element removed. If your complaint is that that is unfair, then you are more than welcome to go run incursions. Wormhole space is about RISK, not plexing your accounts endlessly, you pubbie.
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-03-14 13:43:10 UTC
Calmatt wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
I agree, it does seem there are more in WH space at the moment. Likely due to the slight safety the new overlay brought. The removal of which is the point of y rant.


If you had actually listened to the podcast, we simply stated we wanted the AUTOMATIC, NO INPUT-REQUIRING refresher removed. We also explicitly referred to when old loki pilots for cap escalations would fit probe launchers to check for sigs. We simply want the No-risk element removed. If your complaint is that that is unfair, then you are more than welcome to go run incursions. Wormhole space is about RISK, not plexing your accounts endlessly, you pubbie.


You almost posted like an adult. Well done.

I did listen to it. I still get kills with the overlay and there is already a delay built into it.

If you can not work around this convenient feature....

(Btw, I have never plexed any of my accounts... If that counts for something or other to you.)
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-03-14 14:02:48 UTC
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
Calmatt wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
I agree, it does seem there are more in WH space at the moment. Likely due to the slight safety the new overlay brought. The removal of which is the point of y rant.


If you had actually listened to the podcast, we simply stated we wanted the AUTOMATIC, NO INPUT-REQUIRING refresher removed. We also explicitly referred to when old loki pilots for cap escalations would fit probe launchers to check for sigs. We simply want the No-risk element removed. If your complaint is that that is unfair, then you are more than welcome to go run incursions. Wormhole space is about RISK, not plexing your accounts endlessly, you pubbie.


You almost posted like an adult. Well done.

I did listen to it. I still get kills with the overlay and there is already a delay built into it.

If you can not work around this convenient feature....

(Btw, I have never plexed any of my accounts... If that counts for something or other to you.)


Its not a matter of getting kills. Its a matter of getting free intel without work
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#44 - 2014-03-14 14:19:09 UTC
Auto sig refresh is no different then having a local channel in WSpace. If you have your static as the only wh in your system and you have eyes on it, when that new sig appears you know someone just entered your system.
Jackal Willow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-03-14 14:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jackal Willow
Or that new sig is a wonderful gas site that has to be mined out this moment!!!!!!

I have to agree that free, non-interact intel is leaning more on the side of local.

If the anom display had a 10 second delay or something along those lines that would make sense to me, considering it takes about that much time to rescan using probes. But relatively speaking, when I am running sites in my hole I check those scans maybe every 30 seconds if not longer, considering I use dscan and scouts on static WHs more than anything.

Although each side will argue their points:
PVP: We want it easier to attack unsuspecting targets
PVE: We don't want to die (in condensed terms)

So no one will ever be collaborative since each side always will want it their way more or less.

You know who will win? CCP, since they will still get our subscription money.....

We will just ultimately adjust to what changes are made.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-03-14 14:46:08 UTC
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
My complaint is that any change to wh space always revolves around making it more PvP centric and removing carebear corporation ability to operate.

WHs were designed by CCP as unknown and dangerous space. Yes, CCP failed and made WHs farming land instead.

But anything what makes WHs more danger is only good.

To carebear you have high-sec and sov-0.0 space

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Jackal Willow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2014-03-14 15:05:56 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
My complaint is that any change to wh space always revolves around making it more PvP centric and removing carebear corporation ability to operate.

WHs were designed by CCP as unknown and dangerous space. Yes, CCP failed and made WHs farming land instead.

But anything what makes WHs more danger is only good.

To carebear you have high-sec and sov-0.0 space




Danger is the name of the game, another reason why WH space is so great. I also love how WH space allows me to be solely self sufficient (minus Ice minerals for POS fuel). Other than that and sending loot to K-space to get ISK there is no reason I ever leave WH space. I do productions/carebear stuff all the time in WH space so I don't see where my industrial aspect of gameplay is hindered.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-03-14 17:23:41 UTC
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Those who strictly PvE in wormholes seem to be less vocal, presumably because they simply don't interact with the community. Wormhole PvE can be done solo, or with a couple of friends. There's no reason to band 20 or 30 people together for PvE, but PvP scales all the way up to the thousands in null.

Only incursions really created the need for enough numbers to make it into a community. Those who don't voice their opinions will not be heard, even if they represent a significant portion of the population.

Excellent argument for wormhole incursions! I'm sure everyone would love the logistics of grouping 80 people up in a c1!

As for OP, 1/10 would not read again. Most proposed changes in wormholes are pvp centric, but rarely at the expense of pve. In -1.0 space you should have to defend yourself to make money from pve. Wormholes have a surprisingly good risk/reward ratio compared to most other areas of space, and encourage players to contribute in both pve and pvp.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Traba Regina
Serene Vendetta
#49 - 2014-03-16 00:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Traba Regina
I guess the op is stating in a way that PVP isnt the main concern for CCP when thinking of new and exciting ideas for the WH community.

Yes its hard to put up a defense against some of the more established WH 'Big-boys' but hell go to null sec the goons/CFC N3/PL Rus blocks! are they not the 'big-boys' of null-sec? Any game any part of any game there will always be the 'Big-boys' the ones you aim to be like, try to learn from.

BUT! it doesn't mean they get to shape your game, your day to day idea of fun. CCP seem to do a good job of not jumping to every whim of the established folk, yes it would be nice to see more colonization in WH space the ability for people to build up there corporations 'home' without the sudden knock from the 'Big-Boys' saying 'were gonna burn your house down'


Again BUT! there are ways around that too don't be an ass-hat, create some content or make it fun, hell my corp recently did an excellent rendition of 'You've lost that loving feeling' and tbh not because our house could have been burnt down but because were a fun loving bunch of guys! o7 No-Ho

if there are a set number of WH's which there are, and that fills up with Indy loving PVP hating local yocals then hell that's not fun for anyone. but hell all WH corps/alliances take part in indy and pve there lying if they say they dont :)

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5171792#post5171792
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#50 - 2014-03-16 09:31:09 UTC
Hmmm, if only were people asking CCP to shake up the W-space PvE. Oh wait there were, they are on the CSM and 90% of those evil PvPers posting here.
Maybe because all of them have been doing the same 4 sites for years shooting at the same triggers, bringing in ships at the same timing (well, T2 siege changed that a bit). Maybe because it´s so boring that hitting scanprobes all the time and praying for someone to jump you was the highlight of it?
And the only way someone wants to make PvE harder is the overlay and it´s hard to find people liking it the way it is now.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#51 - 2014-03-16 14:44:16 UTC
I cant believe this made it to three pages

No trolling please
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#52 - 2014-03-16 22:33:34 UTC
Seeding ships now

Prepare for non-consensual "PvP"
roxtarr
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-03-16 22:52:24 UTC
The community is literally cancer. It boggles my mind why pvper are opposed to anything to promote pve in w-space. More people=more targets. Jason had a very legit idea for black hole affects but every time he mentioned it, it immediately got shot down.
The Cue
Violence is the Answer
#54 - 2014-03-16 23:35:55 UTC
roxtarr wrote:
The community is literally cancer. It boggles my mind why pvper are opposed to anything to promote pve in w-space. More people=more targets.


The reason we're against it is because PvE is too safe at the moment. The risk to reward ratio is heavily skewed towards reward with little risk. If it were more risky, there'd be more people interested in boosting PvE, so as to increase the targets. You're right abotu the community beign cancer though.

roxtarr wrote:
Jason had a very legit idea for black hole affects but every time he mentioned it, it immediately got shot down.

The industrial WH effect? WH effects should change the dynamic of PvP, not the choice of making ISK. Making a WH effect boost industry breaks the mold we already have, and in this case, breaking the mold isn't a good thing. A new black hole effect would be a good thing, but it should contribute to changing the dynamic of PvP, not hold random boosts towards industry.
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#55 - 2014-03-17 00:43:43 UTC
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
Please stop just listening to PvP wormhole players.

Listening to the likes of down the pipe podcast and others all csm and ccp talk about is how to kill / gank bears.

Leave wh mechanics as they are. To Hell with PvP players. If they had balls they would only shoot people that could shoot back

Hmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Yup, 9/10.

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#56 - 2014-03-17 09:46:58 UTC
What am I reading
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#57 - 2014-03-17 11:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
Calmatt wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
I agree, it does seem there are more in WH space at the moment. Likely due to the slight safety the new overlay brought. The removal of which is the point of y rant.


If you had actually listened to the podcast, we simply stated we wanted the AUTOMATIC, NO INPUT-REQUIRING refresher removed. We also explicitly referred to when old loki pilots for cap escalations would fit probe launchers to check for sigs. We simply want the No-risk element removed. If your complaint is that that is unfair, then you are more than welcome to go run incursions. Wormhole space is about RISK, not plexing your accounts endlessly, you pubbie.


so you'd be good with the auto-refresh you can do by enabling/disabling anomalies on the system scanner?

If so, I totally agree. Set the default system scanner to, say, 5+ minutes (if it's not there already), but still allow to "scan" for new signatures by toggling anomalies on and off. Not sure if it's really the BEST solution out there, but when I happen to be sitting still and uncloaked with my Wormholes safely closed while I do something I tend to mash the anom button.

Quote:
If the anom display had a 10 second delay or something along those lines that would make sense to me, considering it takes about that much time to rescan using probes. But relatively speaking, when I am running sites in my hole I check those scans maybe every 30 seconds if not longer, considering I use dscan and scouts on static WHs more than anything.


Or, you know, this.

Except then we'd have hi/low/null seccers whining about the delay.
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#58 - 2014-03-17 19:38:17 UTC
Bronya Boga wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
Calmatt wrote:
NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante wrote:
I agree, it does seem there are more in WH space at the moment. Likely due to the slight safety the new overlay brought. The removal of which is the point of y rant.


If you had actually listened to the podcast, we simply stated we wanted the AUTOMATIC, NO INPUT-REQUIRING refresher removed. We also explicitly referred to when old loki pilots for cap escalations would fit probe launchers to check for sigs. We simply want the No-risk element removed. If your complaint is that that is unfair, then you are more than welcome to go run incursions. Wormhole space is about RISK, not plexing your accounts endlessly, you pubbie.


You almost posted like an adult. Well done.

I did listen to it. I still get kills with the overlay and there is already a delay built into it.

If you can not work around this convenient feature....

(Btw, I have never plexed any of my accounts... If that counts for something or other to you.)


Its not a matter of getting kills. Its a matter of getting free intel without work


AkA Local, that **** we came here to avoid.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Justin Cody
War Firm
#59 - 2014-03-17 19:51:06 UTC
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
Le'Mon Tichim wrote:
Tyrant Scorn wrote:
I kinda see where NeedMissle FeelEmpty Charante is coming from. The overall voice of wormholers are the voice of PvPers. So I get what kind of message that might send and how that might come across to people on the outside of that circle.




Well, it's hard to be taken seriously if all you do is hide behind shields and hoard isk...


You have a point but this is the same argument as the highsec wardeccers.

Who are we to judge some elses playstyle ? If that is their preferred style of play, who are you to say they have to un-pos to fight ? Personally I don't worry about these silly little issues. If people want to play this way, then they are free to do so. That goes for any type of playstyle in Eve Online.

We can b*tch and moan about it on the forums but it's not going to change a damn thing. You can't force people to undock or un-pos to fight.

P.S: Why do I get likes on the troll post and not on the actual constructive post that required me to access and use my braincells... This is worrying to me...



2 reasons:

1) nobody likes you
2) your 'constructive' posts are either trolls (or feel that way) or just aren't terribly well thought through.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#60 - 2014-03-17 20:00:22 UTC
That said...WH mining does need fixing. The 75% rate is f'ing stupid and should be 99%. You have to wait while it refines (outpost is instant in null and low and high sec) and it takes resources to fit to your POS. Sure you can on and offline it nonetheless there is some give and take. Heck maybe its 75% unless its a T2 version that has to use Ore 'scripts' so that its 99% for a specific ore. That *might* solve the issue.

Now for those people mining a mining anom. Here's a couple ways to defend yourself.

1) don't mine alone
2) if you insist on wild-cat mining use a venture and deal with the issues that go with ninja/wildcat mining.
3) don't mine alone
4) watch your scanner like a hawk
5) don't leave your orca sitting in the anom
6) don't mine alone
7) watch your scanner like a hawk
8) if you insist on using a barge have the protection of a well composed fleet even if its a bunch of f-you falcons and damp fit keres or something to get tackle off you.
9) don't ever warp your rorq to a belt
10) cycle your static and close all k162's before mining and ignore all known sigs so you can see new ones popping up.