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Blitzing L4s
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Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#1 - 2014-03-15 14:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
Id like some opinions. I can fly all subcap with almost max skills aside from Amarr. What Im trying to figure out is this:

I will be blitzing missions in a system rich with locals. The most bling Ill fly is a T2 fit Tengu. So that leaves up to T2 everything but Marauders and faction BSs.

I will run into most types of rats so I was thinking that the Tengu might not cut it for all of them. I will run the Tengu for everything with a weakness for Kinetic.

For EM-Therm I was thinking T1 Phoon. Something like this

Nanofiber
Nanofiber
Co-processor
BC
BC
BC
BC

MJD
MWD
X-L SB
Invuln
Sensor Booster

CML
CML
CML
CML
CML
CML

Rigor
Rigor
Hydraulic bay thrusters


I know its a silly fit but I still find it interesting. It will give me 8s align. 1400m/s for closing distances to gates or dictating range after MJD. 1020 DPS at 60km, 810 DPS at 116km. Tank, who cares. Suggestions?

Tengu will give me 7.4s align. 590 DPS HML.


EDIT: 8s Align not 12 sec:P
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-03-15 16:35:12 UTC
You haven't specified who you are running missions for.

If you are worried about gankers and you never want to change ships for the mission at hand then a raven would be fine.

Blitz though denotes speed of mission running and maximum dps, to do that you need to go faction or T3 or marauder and that would probably put you in gank territory.

Regardless, post your system you want to run, who you are running for and how much isk in deadspace you plan on fitting and you will be golden.
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-03-15 17:04:47 UTC
Or fly a Marauder without a bling fit?

Do you assume that everyone who fly's a Marauder is a gank target? You can fly a T2 Marauder and get 1000+DPS and notably more tank than any other subcap ship.

Either that or just move systems? If you really want to blitz L4's you are looking at an expensive ship.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-03-15 17:15:19 UTC
Blitz Apollo wrote:
Or fly a Marauder without a bling fit?

Do you assume that everyone who fly's a Marauder is a gank target? You can fly a T2 Marauder and get 1000+DPS and notably more tank than any other subcap ship.

Either that or just move systems? If you really want to blitz L4's you are looking at an expensive ship.



This...

Or a reasonably well fit and expensive CNR is going to provide enough EHP that gankers would really really have to be bored to want to kill you and risk losing more than their ships are worth.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#5 - 2014-03-15 17:50:51 UTC
Blitz Apollo wrote:
Or fly a Marauder without a bling fit?

Do you assume that everyone who fly's a Marauder is a gank target? You can fly a T2 Marauder and get 1000+DPS and notably more tank than any other subcap ship.

Either that or just move systems? If you really want to blitz L4's you are looking at an expensive ship.


If Id want to blitz in an expensive ship I wouldnt do it in a marauder. I also know ppl on both ends of griefing in these kind of systems. Exclusively ganking ppl in expensive ships without a blingfit.
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-03-15 17:59:49 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Blitz Apollo wrote:
Or fly a Marauder without a bling fit?

Do you assume that everyone who fly's a Marauder is a gank target? You can fly a T2 Marauder and get 1000+DPS and notably more tank than any other subcap ship.

Either that or just move systems? If you really want to blitz L4's you are looking at an expensive ship.


If Id want to blitz in an expensive ship I wouldnt do it in a marauder. I also know ppl on both ends of griefing in these kind of systems. Exclusively ganking ppl in expensive ships without a blingfit.



The term blitz implies you are aiming to do it as quickly as possible. To do this you are looking at a Marauder, Pirate BS or T3. Either way your going to have to spend some money.

The simple answer, move systems, get a nice ship, reap the rewards.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#7 - 2014-03-15 18:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
Blitz Apollo wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Blitz Apollo wrote:
Or fly a Marauder without a bling fit?

Do you assume that everyone who fly's a Marauder is a gank target? You can fly a T2 Marauder and get 1000+DPS and notably more tank than any other subcap ship.

Either that or just move systems? If you really want to blitz L4's you are looking at an expensive ship.


If Id want to blitz in an expensive ship I wouldnt do it in a marauder. I also know ppl on both ends of griefing in these kind of systems. Exclusively ganking ppl in expensive ships without a blingfit.



The term blitz implies you are aiming to do it as quickly as possible. To do this you are looking at a Marauder, Pirate BS or T3. Either way your going to have to spend some money.

The simple answer, move systems, get a nice ship, reap the rewards.



Not really. Im not going to clear rooms. Those missions do not interest me. Applying DPS for an extended amount of time is not blitzing. Back to topic? Doing what I specified with cheaper hulls than marauders and pirate BSs.

Ive been testing the Phoon for the past hour. With the fit I posted earlier and it is surprisingly good for this. Still want suggestions though
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-03-15 18:26:03 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Blitz Apollo wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Blitz Apollo wrote:
Or fly a Marauder without a bling fit?

Do you assume that everyone who fly's a Marauder is a gank target? You can fly a T2 Marauder and get 1000+DPS and notably more tank than any other subcap ship.

Either that or just move systems? If you really want to blitz L4's you are looking at an expensive ship.


If Id want to blitz in an expensive ship I wouldnt do it in a marauder. I also know ppl on both ends of griefing in these kind of systems. Exclusively ganking ppl in expensive ships without a blingfit.



The term blitz implies you are aiming to do it as quickly as possible. To do this you are looking at a Marauder, Pirate BS or T3. Either way your going to have to spend some money.

The simple answer, move systems, get a nice ship, reap the rewards.



Not really. Im not going to clear rooms. Those missions do not interest me. Applying DPS for an extended amount of time is not blitzing. Back to topic? Doing what I specified with cheaper hulls than marauders and pirate BSs.

Ive been testing the Phoon for the past hour. With the fit I posted earlier and it is surprisingly good for this. Still want suggestions though


I'm pretty lost now. You have to clear some rooms to get to the next. Sometimes if you want to blitz without a full clear you have to kill triggers which means you need plenty of tank, i.e Marauder. Anyway, you seem intent on trying to semi-blitz with a cheap fit, so good luck chap.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#9 - 2014-03-15 18:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
Ive been blitzing alot and clearing rooms with more than 7ish BSs have been easy to avoid. About triggers. Thats what the MJD and MWD are there for. Im not going to sit tand take the beating. get some imagination going and ull see that u can do more with T1 hulls than u think
Blitz Apollo
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-03-15 18:40:31 UTC
Oh I am not slating T1 hulls by any standard. Some of them put out great DPS. My point being that what ever you can do with a T1, you can do with a T2/3 better, faster and rewarding you with more ISK. Which I thought was the whole point of blitzing things?
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#11 - 2014-03-15 19:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
Well initially I asked for suggestions about lesser than marauder and pirate hulls when it comes to blitzing. Now like I said, I will fly a T2 fit Tengu for the kinetic primary and secondary weaknesses. The ability to put out over 1000DPS from a T1 hull in the EM and Thermal holes might just outperform a tengu. Also the phoon as its fit will be very agile for a BS.


EDIT: Im well aware that some Pirate BSs will outperform every T1 hull out there when it comes to blitzing. If I was interested in doing it as fast as possible for any pricetag I wouldnt ask for oponions about anything but Marauders and pirate BSs because Id already be sitting in a mach. Ive done it before and like everyone else Ive had a time when I was inlove with the Mach. I also know its a bit overrated and tbh Im tired of flying it :P
stoicfaux
#12 - 2014-03-15 20:36:00 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:


I know its a silly fit but I still find it interesting. It will give me 8s align. 1400m/s for closing distances to gates or dictating range after MJD. 1020 DPS at 60km, 810 DPS at 116km. Tank, who cares. Suggestions?

My main quibble is using "MJD for tank" and "blitz" in the same sentence. The MJD has three minute cool-down time, which tends to interfere with blitzing.

My second concern is cap. With the MWD and XLSB, you're not going to be doing much of either, which if you're using range (i.e. the MJD) as tank is fine. But see point one above.

My third concern is applied damage. If you plan on using Fury cruise ammo, then you'll want three Rigor 1s and a TP. I understand fitting the missile speed rig, but I don't think it will meaningfully reduce the need to volley count.

The concern over align time isn't critical in high-sec. So if you're running level 4s in low-sec, then go with the Tengu.


Honestly, I think I would use a Raven instead. The Typhoon's extra DPS from 4 sentry drones is nice, but compared to a "stock" Raven fit (which can field two sentries and 2-3 TPs) I think your fit is giving up too much for the Typhoon to outperform a Raven.


[Raven, T2 Cruise copy 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Automated Targeting Unit I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

The Pith C is ~55M and has lower CPU requirements than a T2 XLSB.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-03-15 20:43:49 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:


I know its a silly fit but I still find it interesting. It will give me 8s align. 1400m/s for closing distances to gates or dictating range after MJD. 1020 DPS at 60km, 810 DPS at 116km. Tank, who cares. Suggestions?

My main quibble is using "MJD for tank" and "blitz" in the same sentence. The MJD has three minute cool-down time, which tends to interfere with blitzing.

My second concern is cap. With the MWD and XLSB, you're not going to be doing much of either, which if you're using range (i.e. the MJD) as tank is fine. But see point one above.

My third concern is applied damage. If you plan on using Fury cruise ammo, then you'll want three Rigor 1s and a TP. I understand fitting the missile speed rig, but I don't think it will meaningfully reduce the need to volley count.

The concern over align time isn't critical in high-sec. So if you're running level 4s in low-sec, then go with the Tengu.


Honestly, I think I would use a Raven instead. The Typhoon's extra DPS from 4 sentry drones is nice, but compared to a "stock" Raven fit (which can field two sentries and 2-3 TPs) I think your fit is giving up too much for the Typhoon to outperform a Raven.


[Raven, T2 Cruise copy 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Automated Targeting Unit I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

The Pith C is ~55M and has lower CPU requirements than a T2 XLSB.


Listen to the man.

And please for the love of Jove don't come to the forums, post a question and then proceed to special scenario yourself into the only corner which makes you look right all the while rejecting perfectly sound advice from people who have been doing this better than you and longer than you.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#14 - 2014-03-15 20:54:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
King Aires wrote:


And please for the love of Jove don't come to the forums, post a question and then proceed to special scenario yourself into the only corner which makes you look right all the while rejecting perfectly sound advice from people who have been doing this better than you and longer than you.



Wow If u read what I asked for from the start. I specifically asked for input about non T2 BSs and pirate BSs. The following happened. First your troll response which I didnt answer. Second, alot of "u cant blitz without pirate or T2-T3 hulls" which is actually good advice if I didnt already specifically ask for anything but that..

Now I agree with some of the points made by this previous guy which I will respond to next.


Now plz dont assume u know anything about me. Im clearly venting some thoughts and me being bad or good at this have nothing to do with anything. So plz get over yourself and go back to trolling. And if this actually was a troll, then gj
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#15 - 2014-03-15 21:35:54 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:


I know its a silly fit but I still find it interesting. It will give me 8s align. 1400m/s for closing distances to gates or dictating range after MJD. 1020 DPS at 60km, 810 DPS at 116km. Tank, who cares. Suggestions?

My main quibble is using "MJD for tank" and "blitz" in the same sentence. The MJD has three minute cool-down time, which tends to interfere with blitzing.

My second concern is cap. With the MWD and XLSB, you're not going to be doing much of either, which if you're using range (i.e. the MJD) as tank is fine. But see point one above.

My third concern is applied damage. If you plan on using Fury cruise ammo, then you'll want three Rigor 1s and a TP. I understand fitting the missile speed rig, but I don't think it will meaningfully reduce the need to volley count.

The concern over align time isn't critical in high-sec. So if you're running level 4s in low-sec, then go with the Tengu.


Honestly, I think I would use a Raven instead. The Typhoon's extra DPS from 4 sentry drones is nice, but compared to a "stock" Raven fit (which can field two sentries and 2-3 TPs) I think your fit is giving up too much for the Typhoon to outperform a Raven.


[Raven, T2 Cruise copy 2]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier II

Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Automated Targeting Unit I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

The Pith C is ~55M and has lower CPU requirements than a T2 XLSB.


the point of the MWD and MJD is to not having to switch anything other than ammo. The mwd is for closing distance between gates. Tbh the MJD CD havent been a problem so far. MJD out kill what I need and dropping a MTU when I only need to loot the one thing from a trigger or whatever.

As I see it the only thing that can actually interfere with the speed I complete missions in is the applied dps. But with the Phoon bonus I feel like Im applying most of it. Could be wrong Ill look into it.

I agree with the align time however. I initially fitted the nano fibers for align times and speed was secondary but I see now that they do more for my cap use than cutting down mission times due to aligntimes.

Im just bored with sitting still :P aka raven
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#16 - 2014-03-15 21:46:38 UTC
Rattlesnake is about the price of a Tengu. (( Yes, it's a pirate BS but half the cost of the other ones ))

It is the worst gank target in game.

It can mission faster than tengu's. (( Although it's not as blitz as Mach, Vindi v.s. the groups they deal with best ))

1200 plus landible dps can be achieved. With full omni tank with 150k plus health.

Maybe of interest to you if you are in a busy local.
stoicfaux
#17 - 2014-03-15 22:04:49 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:

the point of the MWD and MJD is to not having to switch anything other than ammo. The mwd is for closing distance between gates. Tbh the MJD CD havent been a problem so far. MJD out kill what I need and dropping a MTU when I only need to loot the one thing from a trigger or whatever.

As I see it the only thing that can actually interfere with the speed I complete missions in is the applied dps. But with the Phoon bonus I feel like Im applying most of it. Could be wrong Ill look into it.

I agree with the align time however. I initially fitted the nano fibers for align times and speed was secondary but I see now that they do more for my cap use than cutting down mission times due to aligntimes.

Im just bored with sitting still :P aka raven

With that clarification:
* go with 3 Rigors because they always work, whereas the TP has range limitations,
* the Typhoon's explosion velocity bonus is roughly equivalent to a Rigor II.
* non-garde sentries won't have range/tracking issues

However, you're still not going very mobile compared to the Raven. (If you want mobile, MWD Mach is what you want.)

So for the MJD tank Typhoon, I would probably go with the following. (Which has 0.27 CPU left with missile rigging IV.)

[Typhoon, New Setup 1 copy 2 copy 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines, Targeting Range Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

Bouncer II x4

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#18 - 2014-03-17 15:42:11 UTC
Back off topic, why are you not using HAMs on the tengu? Javs will put you 60km out with 600+ dps for the very few blitz missions where you don't start in fury range. Furys will put you about 35km with 1000 dps more then enough to quickly waste a trigger and warp off.

I've been running in my tengu for 2 months now with 3 navy bcus and a deadspace booster and no one has even taken a second glance at my ship. I run in the very popular soe systems.

The ship all in is like 700-800m and i easily clear 100m/hour semi afk, if i pay attention and am very selective with missions i can easily clear 120m/hour.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#19 - 2014-03-17 16:10:53 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:
Back off topic, why are you not using HAMs on the tengu? Javs will put you 60km out with 600+ dps for the very few blitz missions where you don't start in fury range. Furys will put you about 35km with 1000 dps more then enough to quickly waste a trigger and warp off.


10s switch time plus HAMs are gimp for every second you're not firing rage.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#20 - 2014-03-17 16:28:43 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:
Back off topic, why are you not using HAMs on the tengu? Javs will put you 60km out with 600+ dps for the very few blitz missions where you don't start in fury range. Furys will put you about 35km with 1000 dps more then enough to quickly waste a trigger and warp off.


10s switch time plus HAMs are gimp for every second you're not firing rage.


I'll have to test that tonight but I'm pretty sure in 90% of missions hams would be significantly quicker.
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