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Let's give the gankers what they want

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Kyperion
#141 - 2014-03-15 12:05:11 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
"it's not a true sandbox unless I can mine with a battleship that's fit to be able to wipe out gankers while getting protection from concord"

CCP should give us a true sandbox, no concord, no sec status, nothing but to judge another with pure reputation
I suppose that's what you want OP? maybe then you'll show dem gankers who's boss!

but maybe if CCP actually changed ganking so it isn't so binary (they would have to remove concord and change the system) but that will never happen, because even if after a gank you somehow got empowered by the space police (+300% dmg, +300% shield recharge etc.) you would still rather whine than do something about it.

Because high sec residents (I know because I "live" there) are out for themselves not each other, they don't care if their "neighbors" lose billions of isk in a gank or w/e, as long as it doesn't happen to them it's alright! but when it does happen to them, well we get people like the OP and all the whining threads.


You are an idiot... the whole premise of this post is to get more real PVP, and less whiney New Order bitches like yourself


Well, since your premise - gank targets being able to fight off gankers and mine at the same time - implies that you be able to shoot first to stop gankers, that means you are in favor of eliminating Concord action, which is tantamount to eliminating highsec.

I agree completely. Highsec delenda est!


The more I think about it, yes, The concept of Highsec needs serious change.... and I'd willing to throw Concord out the window to make every ship deadly.
Salvos Rhoska
#142 - 2014-03-15 12:05:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
You can already fight back in haulers


Damn! That was like watching a pack mule sprout wings and take flight, while breathing fire.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Kyperion
#143 - 2014-03-15 12:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyperion
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
@ Kyperion:

I'm confused.

You are saying you think a Venture, for example, should be able to fit for full mining, and still have slots available to perform as a full dedicated combat vessel, simultaneously?

So that this Venture can mine at full capacity, and at the same time kill fully fitted combat vessels?


Yes. That makes sense... it does not make sense to have, build or fly defenseless (IE non-lethal) ships in this kind of Dystopian setting



But perhaps have it function like bastion mode (for a frigate more speed/agility, for a Barge/Exhumer more tank and the capability to use stripminers as weapons or fit weapons), and the act of fighting forces you to win or die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#144 - 2014-03-15 12:11:32 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
@ Kyperion:

I'm confused.

You are saying you think a Venture, for example, should be able to fit for full mining, and still have slots available to perform as a full dedicated combat vessel, simultaneously?

So that this Venture can mine at full capacity, and at the same time kill fully fitted combat vessels?


Yes. That makes sense... it does not make sense to have, build or fly defenseless (IE non-lethal) ships in this kind of Dystopian setting



But perhaps have it function like bastion mode (for a frigate more speed/agility, for a Barge/Exhumer more tank and the capability to use stripminers as weapons or fit weapons), and the act of fighting forces you to win or die.


They can already fight back.
Salvos Rhoska
#145 - 2014-03-15 12:11:47 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Yes. That makes sense... it does not make sense to have, build or make defenseless (IE non-lethal) ships in this kind of Dystopian setting


Can you explain to me the sense in a resource/freight ship being able to perform its non-combat role at full capacity, while simultaneously performing a combat role at full capacity?

You don't think that there should be a reciprocal tradeoff in capacity to perform either role?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#146 - 2014-03-15 12:16:21 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
Yes. That makes sense... it does not make sense to have, build or make defenseless (IE non-lethal) ships in this kind of Dystopian setting


Can you explain to me the sense in a resource/freight ship being able to perform its non-combat role at full capacity, while simultaneously performing a combat role at full capacity?

You don't think that there should be a reciprocal tradeoff in capacity to perform either role?


There should clearly be a tradeoff. Q-ships, for example, had far less cargo capacity (though still some) due to the guns. Even more so for Auxiliary Cruisers, historically anyway.
Good Posting
Doomheim
#147 - 2014-03-15 12:27:21 UTC
"Spanish Gold ships, pirates and adventures"
A new world, booze, fights and barefeet women. Sounds cool.
Kaerf Arkanghel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2014-03-15 14:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerf Arkanghel
Divine Entervention wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
This is true, because both types of pirates, EvE and somali ship pirates, are bad people who do bad things against other real people.

Take your medication. No, EVE pirates don't do bad things against real people.


Except completely dehumanize the people they're stealing from to disable their self-condemnation of their immoral acts.


i have a friend who is an ER doctor irl, he saves ALOT of lives!

he plays EvE as a pirate and most of the time he only logs in just to blow ships up.

are you saying he's immoral?

may i remind you that the "RP" in MMORPG stands for "role playing".

you are preaching morality in the wrong audience dude.

are you one of those people blaming "video games" the reason for some nutjob shooting schools?

Just Add Water
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#149 - 2014-03-15 15:09:22 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
'IRL' we are all carebears or we would be in jail... we do not however accept the idea that we may be killed because some thug wants a shiney... and in the United States, many of us carry concealed weapons through our daily lives for just such an eventuality... in a 'sandbox' game this should be an option, but isn't. I can hug my kids one minute, and draw on some pathetic wannabe pedophile the next.... same should exist for shooting rocks one minute, and melting some New Order ***** face the next.

We aren't playing in real life.

We are playing within a make believe galaxy under a fictional set of limits on what is lawful and what is not lawful.

To survive in the fictional World, you need to think in fictional terms, not RL terms.


Actually, we are playing in real life. You might be sending your mind forth into whatever fictional world you're imagining, but your person is still anchored within "real life".

That's the problem with the whole disconnection you have. You think your actions against other people aren't being performed on real people because the setting is in a video game. But those characters are real people just like you, anchored in reality.


The whole point of a video game is to escape from reality for a while, even role players will tell you that the player and the characters are not the same person. This extends to other walks of life too, Patrick Stewart is not the same as Jean Luc Picard.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#150 - 2014-03-15 16:57:31 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


The whole point of a video game is to escape from reality for a while, even role players will tell you that the player and the characters are not the same person. This extends to other walks of life too, Patrick Stewart is not the same as Jean Luc Picard.


The poster you replied to will never get that because he NEEDS to believe that something (anything) will make him superior to others, most likely because that doesn't exist for him in real life.


I've gotten to know a few 'gankers' and 'pirates' via the alliances i've been in and the forums i've been in (as well as other media like facebook and a few north Texas EVE player meet ups) and a high proportion of them are people who actually do real life things for other people. Other folks in law enforcement, EMTs, a pair of brothers who are religious missionaries, an honest to God man and wife peace corps couple, a few doctors/nurses/health care workers, teachers and college professors, a social services counselor ect ect. These are the bad guys of EVE.

The 'good guys' are unemployed basement dwellers swilling mom-bought juice boxes and dad-bought hotpockets while feeling superior because they don't shoot certain space ships in a spaceships shooty game. While the last sentence might seem hyperbolic, well, if it is, it's not by a whole lot.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#151 - 2014-03-15 17:15:46 UTC
Kaerf Arkanghel wrote:
are you one of those people blaming "video games" the reason for some nutjob shooting schools?
It wouldn't surprise me, everything he posts points to it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Yonis Zanjoahir
Doomheim
#152 - 2014-03-15 18:23:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Yonis Zanjoahir
I sortof agree with the OP tbh.
In the history of terrible design decision by CCP the fact that mining ships and haulers are generally without defense, mobility OR offense while not actually earning more ISK than combat ships do missioning / killing rats, etc.. is perheps the worst and most inexplicable.

It's like they initially expected for combat pilots to fight around these ships and over mining rights and such (lol) and they expected barges to be protected 24/7. And when it practically never happened - because it makes no economic sense, intead of balancing things they said **** it let's just make new supercaptials and new ship and module tiers.

It's like EvE PvP ship "balance" is Rock. Paper, Scissors and a stinking pile of worthless Poop. And everything beats flying the pile of Poop.
Vance Armistice
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2014-03-15 18:28:56 UTC
Concord protection should have to be paid for similar to insurance. It should be negligible up to a certain sp then it should begin to cost more simulating the fact that Concord feels that since you have been around longer you have more enemies. It would be a great isk sink.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#154 - 2014-03-15 18:39:58 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
The idea of a "Q-Ship", an armed merchant cruiser designed to look like it's a "helpless" hauler, has always been a dream of mine for EVE.

Fortunately, we're having a turnover in "producers" so maybe some bright spark over there in CCP-land will finally seize on the notion.

Until if and when, "Stay Calm, Get a Frig, and Shoot Back".

Pirate



In fact there should be a combat variant of the Charon. It would have 24 launchers, 8 of each size and 12 mid/low slots.

It could basically just be a huge death barge while keeping its 900k m3 of cargo space.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#155 - 2014-03-15 18:44:50 UTC
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
I sortof agree with the OP tbh.
In the history of terrible design decision by CCP the fact that mining ships and haulers are generally without defense, mobility OR offense while not actually earning more ISK than combat ships do missioning / killing rats, etc.. is perheps the worst and most inexplicable.

It's like they initially expected for combat pilots to fight around these ships and over mining rights and such (lol) and they expected barges to be protected 24/7. And when it practically never happened - because it makes no economic sense, intead of balancing things they said **** it let's just make new supercaptials and new ship and module tiers.

It's like EvE PvP ship "balance" is Rock. Paper, Scissors and a stinking pile of worthless Poop. And everything beats flying the pile of Poop.


T2 haulers are due a balance pass. I suggest you start making your thoughts felt in F&I

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Kyperion
#156 - 2014-03-15 18:54:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Yonis Zanjoahir wrote:
I sortof agree with the OP tbh.
In the history of terrible design decision by CCP the fact that mining ships and haulers are generally without defense, mobility OR offense while not actually earning more ISK than combat ships do missioning / killing rats, etc.. is perheps the worst and most inexplicable.

It's like they initially expected for combat pilots to fight around these ships and over mining rights and such (lol) and they expected barges to be protected 24/7. And when it practically never happened - because it makes no economic sense, intead of balancing things they said **** it let's just make new supercaptials and new ship and module tiers.

It's like EvE PvP ship "balance" is Rock. Paper, Scissors and a stinking pile of worthless Poop. And everything beats flying the pile of Poop.


T2 haulers are due a balance pass. I suggest you start making your thoughts felt in F&I

the need goes beyond just T2 haulers. If this is a game of thrones in space, everybody needs a sword.
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#157 - 2014-03-15 19:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Vix
Jenn aSide wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


The whole point of a video game is to escape from reality for a while, even role players will tell you that the player and the characters are not the same person. This extends to other walks of life too, Patrick Stewart is not the same as Jean Luc Picard.


The poster you replied to will never get that because he NEEDS to believe that something (anything) will make him superior to others, most likely because that doesn't exist for him in real life.


I've gotten to know a few 'gankers' and 'pirates' via the alliances i've been in and the forums i've been in (as well as other media like facebook and a few north Texas EVE player meet ups) and a high proportion of them are people who actually do real life things for other people. Other folks in law enforcement, EMTs, a pair of brothers who are religious missionaries, an honest to God man and wife peace corps couple, a few doctors/nurses/health care workers, teachers and college professors, a social services counselor ect ect. These are the bad guys of EVE.

The 'good guys' are unemployed basement dwellers swilling mom-bought juice boxes and dad-bought hotpockets while feeling superior because they don't shoot certain space ships in a spaceships shooty game. While the last sentence might seem hyperbolic, well, if it is, it's not by a whole lot.


How would you possibly know what walks of life players are from, your statement is presumptuous. I am a 'good guy' type player and in real life I am a retired police officer (early retirement-injured). My husband is also a carebear type, in real life an engineer who donates time training underprivileged kids the martial arts at a local civic center. I would think peoples playstyle have nothing to do with anything in real life, but rather what they find to be fun.
Kyperion
#158 - 2014-03-15 19:15:41 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


The whole point of a video game is to escape from reality for a while, even role players will tell you that the player and the characters are not the same person. This extends to other walks of life too, Patrick Stewart is not the same as Jean Luc Picard.


The poster you replied to will never get that because he NEEDS to believe that something (anything) will make him superior to others, most likely because that doesn't exist for him in real life.


I've gotten to know a few 'gankers' and 'pirates' via the alliances i've been in and the forums i've been in (as well as other media like facebook and a few north Texas EVE player meet ups) and a high proportion of them are people who actually do real life things for other people. Other folks in law enforcement, EMTs, a pair of brothers who are religious missionaries, an honest to God man and wife peace corps couple, a few doctors/nurses/health care workers, teachers and college professors, a social services counselor ect ect. These are the bad guys of EVE.

The 'good guys' are unemployed basement dwellers swilling mom-bought juice boxes and dad-bought hotpockets while feeling superior because they don't shoot certain space ships in a spaceships shooty game. While the last sentence might seem hyperbolic, well, if it is, it's not by a whole lot.


How would you possibly know what walks of life players are from, your statement is presumptuous. I am a 'good guy' type player and in real life I am a retired police officer (early retirement-injured). My husband is also a carebear type, in real life an engineer who donates time training underprivileged kids the martial arts at a local civic center. I would think peoples playstyle have nothing to do with anything in real life, but rather what they find to be fun.

more important, who gives a damn..... this is about fixing the idiotic notion that a dystopian world would be filled with unarmed ships mining/hauling the bread n butter of the galaxy.... I don't really give a **** what they do in real life.... they shoot at me .... I don't care if I'm flying a ******* shuttle I should have a means by which to kill the ************.... WITH MY OWN BLOODY SHIP.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#159 - 2014-03-15 19:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Kara Vix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


The whole point of a video game is to escape from reality for a while, even role players will tell you that the player and the characters are not the same person. This extends to other walks of life too, Patrick Stewart is not the same as Jean Luc Picard.


The poster you replied to will never get that because he NEEDS to believe that something (anything) will make him superior to others, most likely because that doesn't exist for him in real life.


I've gotten to know a few 'gankers' and 'pirates' via the alliances i've been in and the forums i've been in (as well as other media like facebook and a few north Texas EVE player meet ups) and a high proportion of them are people who actually do real life things for other people. Other folks in law enforcement, EMTs, a pair of brothers who are religious missionaries, an honest to God man and wife peace corps couple, a few doctors/nurses/health care workers, teachers and college professors, a social services counselor ect ect. These are the bad guys of EVE.

The 'good guys' are unemployed basement dwellers swilling mom-bought juice boxes and dad-bought hotpockets while feeling superior because they don't shoot certain space ships in a spaceships shooty game. While the last sentence might seem hyperbolic, well, if it is, it's not by a whole lot.


How would you possibly know what walks of life players are from, your statement is presumptuous. I am a 'good guy' type player and in real life I am a retired police officer (early retirement-injured). My husband is also a carebear type, in real life an engineer who donates time training underprivileged kids the martial arts at a local civic center. I would think peoples playstyle have nothing to do with anything in real life, but rather what they find to be fun.


You last sentence is exactly the point. The poster we're talking about goes on and on about how in game actions make you a bad out of game person. Perhaps I didn't phrase it correctly, I should have said "some of these very vocal 'good guy' types are actually...." instead.

I'm in Law Enforcement and I'm one of the in-game "good guys" too (several characters with 5.0 sec I don't pirate or shoot at ships that don't or can't shoot back, if only my IRL arrest record could compare to the amount of CONCORD bounties i've recieved over the last 7 years in this game, I'd be Chief or Sheriff by now lol).

However, the poster that prompted this response is someone who takes the game to seriously while at the exact same time displaying some nasty personality traits that would point to an IRL 'bad' person. You know as well as I do that after a while you learn how to smell BS 10 miles away.
Kara Vix
Perkone
Caldari State
#160 - 2014-03-15 19:27:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


The whole point of a video game is to escape from reality for a while, even role players will tell you that the player and the characters are not the same person. This extends to other walks of life too, Patrick Stewart is not the same as Jean Luc Picard.


The poster you replied to will never get that because he NEEDS to believe that something (anything) will make him superior to others, most likely because that doesn't exist for him in real life.


I've gotten to know a few 'gankers' and 'pirates' via the alliances i've been in and the forums i've been in (as well as other media like facebook and a few north Texas EVE player meet ups) and a high proportion of them are people who actually do real life things for other people. Other folks in law enforcement, EMTs, a pair of brothers who are religious missionaries, an honest to God man and wife peace corps couple, a few doctors/nurses/health care workers, teachers and college professors, a social services counselor ect ect. These are the bad guys of EVE.

The 'good guys' are unemployed basement dwellers swilling mom-bought juice boxes and dad-bought hotpockets while feeling superior because they don't shoot certain space ships in a spaceships shooty game. While the last sentence might seem hyperbolic, well, if it is, it's not by a whole lot.


How would you possibly know what walks of life players are from, your statement is presumptuous. I am a 'good guy' type player and in real life I am a retired police officer (early retirement-injured). My husband is also a carebear type, in real life an engineer who donates time training underprivileged kids the martial arts at a local civic center. I would think peoples playstyle have nothing to do with anything in real life, but rather what they find to be fun.


You last sentence is exactly the point. The poster we're talking about goes on and on about how in game actions make you a bad out of game person. Perhaps I didn't phrase it correctly, I should have said "some of these very vocal 'good guy' types are actually...." instead.

I'm in Law Enforcement and I'm one of the in-game "good guys" too (several characters with 5.0 sec I don't pirate or shoot at ships that don't or can't shoot back, if only my IRL arrest record could compare to the amount of CONCORD bounties i've recieved over the last 7 years in this game, I'd be Chief or Sheriff by now lol).

However, the poster that prompted this response is someone who takes the game to seriously while at the exact same time displaying some nasty personality traits that would point to an IRL 'bad' person. You know as well as I do that after a while you learn how to smell BS 10 miles away.


I understand, you exaggerated to make a point (I think in english it's hyperbole). I have read your posts over the years and know you are a good person. Many of the posts in this thread were pretty crazy.