EVE General Discussion

Jpoll i appreciate your math, but its lacking the appropriate application. Once you finish those 42/35 min training amarr cruiser, what are you going to do with you character? Never train again? No, you are going to continue to train. So do the math throwing in more trainings that also total 35.123 min. You'll notice that with implants, 35,123 minutes of lvl 1 trainings will also be reduced to 29,270 min too, even though they are all level 1 skills. So you will get the exact same benefit over those ~3 weeks.

And the counter-point is that thinking about it in terms of single skills has almost no bearing on how skill training is done in practice so the point is effectively pointless and gives rise to bad advice.

Both are true to an extent. In a "pure" logic sense, extracted from the game world - you are correct. There is very little purity in EVE Online.

Just ask about "EFT Warrior" fittings to get an idea how that can backfire with respect to "logic" and "number crunching" vs use. "But the numbers show"...


First - training time to use "the best" - it can be a full year worth of use on +5's to regain just the training time spent to have access to them. Now who's going to train to use less than the best?!?! Everyone goes "all 5's" with everything in this game, right? ...

Next - "clean clones" for PvP use - smart; right? What's a clean clone again?

A newer player learning PvP is quite liable to be in a fully "clean clone" whereas a more experienced player is liable to be using a couple +4's to keep their focus going for their longer training skills.

Why? Because 1 "can afford it" but also that player is quite probably far less likely to *HAVE TO* afford it.

so on and so forth.

So in a puritanical view of this question, dealing with "sitting as a station trader in highsec" - true. It is 100% balanced and there is no difference.

Now undock a ship and go do stuff... Things start getting a bit more shaky when that happens and pretty much all aspects of the game look a bit differently when you consider all the various aspects that come into play here.

Those who telly you it's smarter and better later on are being honest.

Posts like this make me think I'm missing something in that I don't see mention in the op about +5's or catching up to older players specifically, but rather that the idea of forgoing implants because the benefits can only be felt to their greatest degree when training later level 5's, which is entirely false and BAD advice.

Actually the best advice is to play the game as you like. You can even forget those implants and stop training when you have those PvP skills and frigates to assault, if you have fun in them.

Problem is people are calculating how much times SP lvl I is different from lvl V, then comparing the minutes implants cut them off from training particular skill. And it is always huuuuge difference for them, despite bonus in percentage being the same. So they are in fact talking about this Huuuuge difference in time learning skill I and skill V. Something what is essentially right, but they are forgetting, that you have those huuuge differences even without any implants. So the bonus is all the time the same, and huuuge difference in times SP between particular lvl's of skills is huuuge as it always was. You are both right and I don't know how much more labyrinthine explanation I could provide.

This.

The Most important video you will ever see

This lecture is absolutely amazing for people with all level of math skills to understand most of the world by your own deduction.

Pages later, I cannot believe nobody answered this from post #25:



7 Days = 168 hours = 10080 minutes.

Imagine two brand new characters without remaps, so 20s in all attributes.

Character A follows Scipio’s advice and trains “relevant ship skills” for 1 week at (20 + 20/2) = 30 SPs per minute At the end of the week he has 257040 SPs.

Character B follows Pain Killer13’s advice. He first trains Cybernetics 1. That is 750 SPs at 30 SPs per minute = 25 minutes. Then he plugs in a set of +3s and trains ship skills for the rest of the week. Now he trains at (23 + 23/2) = 34.5 SPs per minute for the remaining 10055 minutes in the week. At the end he has 750 cybernetics SPs and 346897 SPs in “relevant ship skills”.

So yes, everyone benefits from implants. Even newbies who are only training level 1, 2 and 3 skills.


HOWEVER, consider the opportunity cost of plugging in those implants.

A new pilot needs four implants to cover the 4 attributes you will be training. (That is, all except charisma.) Say a set of four +3 implants costs 30 million isk. (I am sorry. I have not looked at the market for +3 implants for a long time. I may be off.) Isk is difficult to come by for brand new characters. So, both of these characters must work for a couple days to gather 30 million isk.

Player A can spend his 30M isk fitting out 15 frigates, which he gets blown up in PVP. Flying around, shooting things, and explosions are fun. Additionally, Player A has gotten some valuable behind-the-keyboard skills flying ships, and may have made some friends among the people he was fighting.

Player B just spent his entire net worth on some implants which he stuck in his head. He has no more money with which to have fun. Additionally, he will be afraid that if he does get into PVP, he can lose his pod with his implants. Then he will be stuck training at the previous slow speed again until he can gather another 30 million isk!

SPs in EVE are not equivalent to XPs in other games you may have played. If you are obsessed with maximizing your SP gain, then you are likely to become a risk-averse carebear, who stays in high sec your entire life running missions and never getting into PVP. There is no maximum level you can reach and be at the end game. You will never catch up to the number of SPs of pilots who started years before you. People who are obsessed with the number of SPs their character has are very likely to burn out and quit the game before the people who are here for fun.


So what is the answer?

One of the cardinal rules of EVE is to never fly what you cannot afford to lose. That includes your implants.

Have fun in the game. When you can afford to lose implants in PVP, then you can buy them. If losing them would be too much of a financial burden to you, then you shouldn’t be using them yet.

Not when those minutes accumulate into days, which they always do.

Don't listen to advice given by veteran players and your problems will be solved.

Thats my best advice