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PI Taxes?

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Avila Cracko
#101 - 2011-11-29 22:33:42 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Kietay Ayari wrote:
So unless higher end goods go up a lot more than lower end goods it won't matter for my type of PI.



It's a fixed percentage, so prices will be going up evenly across the board. I wouldn't rush out to sell your broadcast nodes for 1 million each right now...

Edit: Better yet - planetary launches are MORE expensive than the concord/interbus rates



What???
what are rates of launchers compared to CO???

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#102 - 2011-11-29 22:35:02 UTC
Denidil wrote:
10k/s regen


I believe it's actually 1k/s
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#103 - 2011-11-29 22:35:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
Avila Cracko wrote:
What???
what are rates of launchers compared to CO???


Just slightly lower. At least slightly lower in a wormhole launching coolant. Didn't check anything else or anywhere else.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#104 - 2011-11-29 22:38:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
So, CCP Nullarbor and CCP Omen uses the stick method to force a game play element through... Good luck with that. Considering that trying to force people into a certain game style has never worked before, you are going to need all the luck you can get.

Btw. screw booster production; I am now effectively losing ISK if I try to do that.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
#105 - 2011-11-29 22:44:18 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
trying to force people into a certain game style has never worked before, you are going to need all the luck you can get.


Welcome to the "sandbox"...
Jita Alt666
#106 - 2011-11-29 22:45:51 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
So, CCP Nullarbor and CCP Omen uses the stick method to force a game play element through... Good luck with that. Considering that trying to force people into a certain game style has never worked before, you are going to need all the luck you can get.

Btw. screw booster production; I am now effectively losing ISK if I try to do that.


I see a small stick and a big carrot.
Cloora
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
#107 - 2011-11-29 22:49:44 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Cloora wrote:


Come take out my POCOs then if you think it's nothing.


I'm sure someone will. Small tower evictions happen all the time, and it doesn't take supercaps to do it.


You don't get it do you? If they don't have supers we can fight. If they do have supers and support, oh well. That's EVE. PVP is what this game is about not risk free ISK

http://www.altaholics.blogspot.com
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#108 - 2011-11-29 22:50:30 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Jowen Datloran wrote:
So, CCP Nullarbor and CCP Omen uses the stick method to force a game play element through... Good luck with that. Considering that trying to force people into a certain game style has never worked before, you are going to need all the luck you can get.

Btw. screw booster production; I am now effectively losing ISK if I try to do that.


I see a small stick and a big carrot.


Sadly, for wormholes this is stick only. There's practically no benefits at all to wormholes... it's pure expense. You're not going to abuse your corp/allies enough with taxes to turn this into a business... at least not if you still want a corp or allies... so basically this is just an expense, wasted isk. Completely useless compared to the old system.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#109 - 2011-11-29 22:50:35 UTC
At the end of the day, taxes are just added to the cost of a product. Since lowsec PI will be dead within the next month and taxes are just added on top of the costs of keeping a POS running, the results will be felt by practically everyone who likes to use T2 and T3 ships and modules.

The changes strike me as a less then smart move by the responsible developers.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2011-11-29 22:55:15 UTC
Jita Alt666 wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jita Alt666 wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming that the base prices were adjusted as well as default tax rates for Concord and Interbus customs offices. The latest and best information is available here:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice



Thank you for implementing a solid system. This is a nice example of risk being rewarded and risk aversion being shunned.

Unless you own a POS is lowsec. Risk you always had AND higher operating cost. Win/win right?


If you set up your own PCO's on the planets in your lowsec system, you are actually lowering your operating costs (and possibly opening an income stream from others) at increased risk.

This only holds true if you make your own POS fuel. To be honest never dealt with it, but given trade volumes it would suggest there are alot of people who aren't. I can see them being rather livid that a part of the game they choose not to partake in is (potentially) causing a great change in the way they operate. They can start making their own, but necessitating POCO placement and defense as well as PI operation on those who don't want it just to maintain current costs just seems like a bad idea.
Turkatron
#111 - 2011-11-29 22:57:48 UTC
Posting in another ****-thread with OP whining about "problems" documented well in advance of the patch release. Roll

If you people used the eve website for anything other than ****-posting about CCP features you perceive as problems, you would have known about this tax and ~shock~ ****-posted about it before patch release.
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#112 - 2011-11-29 23:12:54 UTC
Denidil wrote:
by my calculations (and my Oracle fit) it takes 12 Oracles to break the tank (10k/s regen) of a POCO.


time to reinforce = 8mil (shields that need to be removed)/(DPS-10,000)

12 x 900 dps oracles = 10800 dps

8,000,000/(10800-10000) = 8,000,000/800 = 10,000 seconds = 167 minutes = 2.8 hours


on the other hand 20 x 900 dps oracles

18000 dps about 17 minutes



The POCO doesn't regenerate at 10,000 shield per second. It has 10,000,000 shield point and regenerate in 50,000 seconds. That's 200 shield per second.

So it would take 12 Oracles a total of 13 minutes to reinforce a POCO.
Kal'ar Rinah
Doomheim
#113 - 2011-11-29 23:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kal'ar Rinah
Turkatron wrote:
Posting in another ****-thread with OP whining about "problems" documented well in advance of the patch release. Roll

If you people used the eve website for anything other than ****-posting about CCP features you perceive as problems, you would have known about this tax and ~shock~ ****-posted about it before patch release.


actually while the increased tax rate was well documented before the patch, the increase in items "taxable value" was not

which you'd know if you used this thread for anything other than ****-posting, amusing no?
Random Alternate
Fear Agents
#114 - 2011-11-29 23:16:07 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
It is ridiculous. I have all my PI in low sec and way way too much. Can't assemble your own if youre in a npc corp from my understanding or if in a small 5-10 man corp probably not going to happen.

Guess we should just raise prices on everything then other will stop complaining about our PI tax complaining. Just needs to trickle down a bit.


I love high prices, I just sell for 50% less than the lowest price x my 4 other alts. nom nom nom
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#115 - 2011-11-29 23:23:58 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
Denidil wrote:
by my calculations (and my Oracle fit) it takes 12 Oracles to break the tank (10k/s regen) of a POCO.


time to reinforce = 8mil (shields that need to be removed)/(DPS-10,000)

12 x 900 dps oracles = 10800 dps

8,000,000/(10800-10000) = 8,000,000/800 = 10,000 seconds = 167 minutes = 2.8 hours


on the other hand 20 x 900 dps oracles

18000 dps about 17 minutes



The POCO doesn't regenerate at 10,000 shield per second. It has 10,000,000 shield point and regenerate in 50,000 seconds. That's 200 shield per second.

So it would take 12 Oracles a total of 13 minutes to reinforce a POCO.


the person who told me the regen rate had it wrong then. i was surprised by how high it was.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#116 - 2011-11-29 23:25:41 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
There's practically no benefits at all to wormholes... it's pure expense.


Why? You'd think that if you're the only one in your wormhole it would make sense to pop the interbus customs offices and anchor your own, and set yourself a zero tax rate. Yeah it would be a PITA and a lot of up front expense, but after that no more tax. No one is going to go pop people's customs offices in wormholes unless they seriously plan on moving in.
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2011-11-29 23:32:00 UTC
I would be completely down with the change if they had done something to make PI less mind numbingly horrible at the same time.

They have made something that was a bit of a boring chore into more of a boring chore.
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#118 - 2011-11-29 23:33:02 UTC
Turkatron wrote:
Posting in another ****-thread with OP whining about "problems" documented well in advance of the patch release. Roll

If you people used the eve website for anything other than ****-posting about CCP features you perceive as problems, you would have known about this tax and ~shock~ ****-posted about it before patch release.


Speaking as the OP... no, it wasn't properly documented. That's the whole point. Seeing as how I make my ISK off PI, I've been following the information on PI fairly closely. The tax rate changes were mentioned, but the base value changes were not.

Not that I'm 'whining'; I've got the capital to put up PoCo's, so the long-term impact of all this is 'I make more ISK', which I'm not about to complain about. Smile

The hisec PI crowd? Yeah, they're getting screwed. I approve; less people doing PI in hisec also means more money for me.
Catlos JeminJees
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2011-11-29 23:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Catlos JeminJees
i see this as an oportunity for Med to large sized high sec corps.

They go to their nearest Low sec system and monopolize the POCO of that system. set the price at a half deacent rate and can make a **** tone of isk.

I say med to large because they would have to be defended.

This flows perfect with the great EVE tradition of the more risk you take the more money you make and the more money you can lose.


For null bears like my self this is just a temporary nusance. that will be made up for in the end .


Also i dont think the Price of PI will go up that much maybe at first but not for ever. From doing PI in Low sec to doing PI in null sec i can tell you that the majority of PI in the market comes from Null .(majority not all, befor you Trolls start up) .

the leves of PI production are un matched in null or WH
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2011-11-29 23:41:27 UTC
yay for the death of PI was a pain in the ass anyways.

I have more space likes than you.