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Missions & Complexes

 
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Loot Spew 4 Months Later

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Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#341 - 2014-03-15 10:19:27 UTC
To be honest, while I hated it and railed against it at first, I've come to not mind it in the slightest. Sure it gets annoying when I misclick in space and start flying in a direction, causing me to get out of range of some of the cans. And sure it gets annoying when stuff starts dissapearing when I was trying to tractor it in.

But in the end, it really just doesn't bother me anymore. I get all the worthwhile loot anyways. It's a non-issue now. All these people complaining about it need to harden up and learn to adapt.


The hacking game though, I still love. I'd very much like seeing that expanded on, and maybe even used for other stuff.
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
#342 - 2014-03-18 14:32:24 UTC
Thank you, CCP!

It was a bad mechanic that didn't make sense. It also did not accomplish its purpose (to make exploration a group activity).

If you're going to review the loot tables, remove the obvious crap. It's a waste of code and bandwidth.
I wouldn't getting less loot, but perhaps you could work on the usefulness of decryptors so prices will rise again.
350125GO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#343 - 2014-03-18 18:01:19 UTC
Back to exploration after a four year Eve hiatus. Loot spew is terrible. Glad it's going. As a whole the mechanic is much better than it used to be. (I used to work the complex in Deltole regularly).

Here's what I propose. Hack a can get the shiny, but increase risk.

How?

Option 1: Make hacking multi-tiered. Each level of hack you get through gets you access to better loot. Thus increasing reason to train hacking to Lvl V and to fit a ship better.

Option 2: Make sites harder to scan down, then make Concorde ignore them. Therefore if you find a relic site in a 1.0 you still can get freely jumped inside. That would encourage you to have a pvp partner with you or to take the same precautions you would if you were in null.

You're young, you'll adjust. I'm old, I'll get used to it.
sHanQ Myteia
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#344 - 2014-03-18 23:26:57 UTC
removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.

its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.

Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.

with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.

making the minigame harder could work a well.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#345 - 2014-03-18 23:33:23 UTC
sHanQ Myteia wrote:
removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.

its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.

Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.

with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.

making the minigame harder could work a well.



Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#346 - 2014-03-18 23:56:04 UTC
For a good while to come, when people ***** about CCP not caring about player input, I'll point them to this thread.

This is mostly in the DUST community. I'll just explain that loot spew is terrible, CCP listened, and fairly quickly changed it.

Good job guys.

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sHanQ Myteia
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#347 - 2014-03-19 04:25:55 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
sHanQ Myteia wrote:
removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.

its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.

Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.

with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.

making the minigame harder could work a well.



Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done.


that'd be too good to be true :)
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#348 - 2014-03-19 07:43:03 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
For a good while to come, when people ***** about CCP not caring about player input, I'll point them to this thread.

This is mostly in the DUST community. I'll just explain that loot spew is terrible, CCP listened, and fairly quickly changed it.

Good job guys.
.... Your concepts of "listened" and "fairly quickly" differ dramatically from mine (and I'm guessing most other people). They were told repeatedly that loot bukkake was a terrible terrible idea when it hit the Test Server. They rolled it out anyway. Most people would refer to that as "NOT listening". And it will be a year later that they finally remove it, if that even does occur. Most folks don't consider waiting a year to be "fairly quick". How about you loan me your car, and I'll return it "fairly quickly"? Also keep in mind that it's not CCP that's making this decision (as far as we have been told). It is a Dev who is making the changes in their free time and submitting them for inclusion in the next expansion. This isn't even something that the decision-makers in CCP consider a priority. So... yeah.
Solkara Starlock
Circle of Mystery
#349 - 2014-03-19 09:22:04 UTC
I have to agree with the last post.

When the new exploration hit the the test server, reactions the the loot spew was almost universally negative.
People begged to remove it. People were angry. I cannot imagine it was so hard to remove it that it took a year.
It should never had made the expansion. Why do you have a test server when you don't listen to the feedback!

When Odyssey, the expansion marketed to boost exploration, came out, it effectively killed exploration as a miniprofession.

Now remove the instantly visible presence of cosmic signatures (leave the anomalies, if you must) upon entering a system and it will be back. Exploration should be about actively looking for stuff out there in space. I doubt they should adapt the loot tables if the implement this. Make pilots work for their ISK!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#350 - 2014-03-19 09:24:46 UTC
The greatest irony of course is that once the loot spew has gone the oddysey expansion will be more or less undone. Oddysey with it's dumbing down and crap survey scanner has to be the worst expansion of recent years. Putting scanning in easy mode really harmed the Explorer profession, it's no longer an elite thing to do and the profession hasn't recovered yet.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#351 - 2014-03-19 09:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
CCP Affinity wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
.....

With all due respect, removing the loot spew IS a nerf to Exploration :)
Looking forward to see the details.

I would be very interested to know how you have come to this conclusion :)

I think it comes from two places.
First in this specific case making it easier to get the loot will increase the amount on the market and depress prices even more. Yes, you have already covered that, but that brings up the second point.
CCP once said they wanted exploration to pay better than other forms of PvE. Presumably because it involves more interaction with other players. What that means is in high sec I should be able to make more isk per hour exploring than what I would get hopping into a blinged out 'snake and ripping through L4 missions. CCP said this, then changed exploration to be one of the more worthless activities.
Your credibility is very low here. When you do give details, please listen to the feedback. In general, things go bad as soon as someone in CCP writes "with all due respect, we think it will not work out that way".


I have personally never said any of those things :) and I wouldn't be posting in this thread if I didn't care about the feedback and was not listening to it. I am taking a look at the exploration scattering and loot tables that were done by another developer.

I agree that exploration needs an overhaul and some serious dev love (as does quite a few PvE systems), but I do not control priorities, that rests with senior producers. I have a few days down time between projects right now, so I am going to look into doing what I can to reduce pain points.

However, threads like this are super useful when they remain clear and concise. This thread is about loot spew and how that impacts the exploration experience... it starts to become less useful when it is used as an avenue to vent frustrations at all past CCP decisions.



thanks affinity for taking time out to do this, this is what I love about CCP devs that you don't get in other games, the dedication and the will to fix things even in their spare time. I for one am glad that you are helping to repair the damage done to the exploration microprofession. I am really appreciative as I am sure almost everyone else is.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#352 - 2014-03-19 10:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Little Dragon Khamez
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Quote:
If I scan lets say HiSec sites in Gallente space and I have probed a Serpentis Phi Outpost - it's always a race: is there already someone in the site? Will I clear it before someone else takes notice or will I be disturbed? And then: what is the loot? Crap or jackpot?


There you go. Probing. There's nothing to explore with anoms. Its already scanned, it even had name on it, so i exactly know what to expect when i see it. Just warp to it. It has to do with exploration as much as nestor without cloak.

Quote:
Therefore the additional element of complexity, risk and decision-making.


I want that too, but i not the way you post it.


Agreed, if you don't use probes you are not actually exploring. I'd like to see gravimetric sites not be 100% but a partial signature like 80% so you know that they are there but still have to do some work to find them.

I am really sick of seeing mining barges sucking up low sec minerals that spawn at 100% in high sec, it does nothing to drive conflict. These sites are just bonus asteroid belts for miners. Really tough rats in these sites might be the way to go though.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#353 - 2014-03-19 11:32:12 UTC
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:
can't possibly be pleased

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
Henk Brombir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#354 - 2014-03-19 15:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Henk Brombir
Are we at least keeping the mini game? It makes exploration a bit more dynamic and less monotonous :]


Also, I think it would be a good idea that signatures in space are not given but actually have to be scanned down to reduce accessibility a tiny bit and make stuff a tiny bit more valuable
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#355 - 2014-03-19 16:40:57 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
The greatest irony of course is that once the loot spew has gone the oddysey expansion will be more or less undone. Oddysey with it's dumbing down and crap survey scanner has to be the worst expansion of recent years. Putting scanning in easy mode really harmed the Explorer profession, it's no longer an elite thing to do and the profession hasn't recovered yet.


Until we get harder mode scanning and exploration it won't recover
Clint Brigante
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#356 - 2014-03-20 17:34:33 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Thanks whiners.

Probably loot will be nerfed now, so that you microless fat fingers can finally handle a simple mini-game.


Maybe you should go back to tetris and have some beloved micro there? Exploring in eve was awesome cause it was relaxing and all the work and effort required was the scanning itself and trying to stay alive below highsec. I liked the harder versions of scanning mechanic. With that patch that ovehauled exploration they made it so much worse...
Alistair Cononach
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#357 - 2014-03-20 19:59:26 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done.


I.e. Eliminate the "Exploration" Profession completely, and replace it with another form of PvE Ratting/Plexing.

Um, no.

If you want to shoot Red crosses for loot, go to belts, missions or plexes. No shortage of ways to kill dumb rats for loot.

Exploration offered/offers a non-combat profession based not on shooting, but on something else, and it should stay as should the minigame.

If anything, add in a new type of exploration, that mixes both the current minigame with enemy ships defending it.

But do not remove the exploration game.
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#358 - 2014-03-20 21:55:02 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
sHanQ Myteia wrote:
removing the loot-spew is a terrible idea.

its easy enough for those highsec bears to ninja the relics/data in null... im one of those who is actively chasing them with success, even tho i think the whole overhaul of the good old magnet. site was bad.

Eve is supposed to the hard, that keeps kids/dumb people away from the game.

with removing the spew-loot you make it even easier than it actually is already... if you still do it, at LEAST nerf the loot of the whole sites by a lot please.

making the minigame harder could work a well.



Nerf the loot, remove the hacking game and drop the loot spew, plus put the rats back in the complexes. Job done.


Rats don't belong in archeology sites. At all. Here is this ancient wreck, untouched for years, and oops here come a bunch of rats who just happened to find it at the same moment you did? Dumb.

Not every activity needs rats.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#359 - 2014-03-20 22:53:49 UTC
As long as the rats make lore sense I have no problem with them. I explored successfully when the rats used to be there they served to make exploration rewards more valuable, but I appreciate that my version of exploration is not for everyone.

Old style explorers were elite professionals who scanned, used stealth and force when needed and were a breed apart.
Exploration today is a poor shadow of its former self.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Anela Cistine
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#360 - 2014-03-20 23:25:39 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
As long as the rats make lore sense I have no problem with them. I explored successfully when the rats used to be there they served to make exploration rewards more valuable, but I appreciate that my version of exploration is not for everyone.

Old style explorers were elite professionals who scanned, used stealth and force when needed and were a breed apart.
Exploration today is a poor shadow of its former self.



I do not approve of elite professions, sorry. And I'm saying that with a character that has over 62 millions skillpoints.

Every profession should be accessible to new players within a few weeks. New players can't run level 4 missions, but they can run level 1 missions. They can't kill nulsec rats but they can kill highsec rats. They can't produce supercaps but they can produce small T1 ships and ammo. They can't mine in a hulk but they can mine in a venture.

Right now I think the balance is pretty good. The highly skilled player will be making far more isk/hour, but the newbie explorer is perfectly viable.

  • A newbie can get into T1 probing frigate with mostly T1 modules and 3-4 in relevant skills within a few weeks. They may not be able to pinpoint some sites, and they may fail the hacking mini game more often than not, but they can get out there and give it a good try. If they enjoy it, there is a fairly narrow focus of skills they'll need to work on to get better.

  • Meanwhile an ~elite~ player with mostly 4s and 5s in relevant skills can fly a T2 or T3 ship with T2 modules will find and run sites much faster. The ~elite~ player will have a covops cloak making them much safer running sites in lowsec or nulsec.

  • The superduperelite OMG guys can fit combat capable scanning ships and scan down sites in wormholes. There are rats, there are valuable prizes, and they can enjoy being one of the very few that can manage wormhole exploration.