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Let's give the gankers what they want

First post First post
Author
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#81 - 2014-03-15 09:02:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
I agreed with his statement that you are a troll. If you wish to believe otherwise, well that's your own insecurity and your irrational overreaction is your own responsibility.

Being unlike you, even online I do not wish to upset your person.
Lol Yeah, no. Liar.


Troll
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#82 - 2014-03-15 09:03:00 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
You do not have any weaponization options other than unbonused drones in a miningbarge, and none in a freighter.... which is idiotic.
you are looking at this bass ackwards


So what? That's a limitation you know up front and you also know that you are playing in an environment where both PvE and PvP co-exist and commonly intersect.

If you don't have the option to fit a gun to the specific ship you want to fly, either:

  1. accept that and accept the consequences that you may be blown up at some point,
  2. reship to something else and fit guns to it and accept that you may be blown up at some point or that you might also blow someone else up first,
  3. find friends with guns who can assist you,
  4. develop intelligence systems (eg. gankers on watchlists, intel channels, etc.) so you can be forewarned
  5. move elsewhere when gankers are around
  6. tank your ship and then tank it some more so you can survive long enough for Concordekken to save you
  7. any of a number of other options that make you a less likely target


But when you say "you do not have any weaponization options", just realise that it is your thinking about your own situation. If I was a miner, I would most ceretainly have weaponization options and mange the risk to make myself less likely to be ganked and a harder target for anyone that tries.


'IRL' we are all carebears or we would be in jail... we do not however accept the idea that we may be killed because some thug wants a shiney... and in the United States, many of us carry concealed weapons through are daily lives for just such an eventuality... in a 'sandbox' game this should be an option, but isn't. I can hug my kids one minute, and draw on some pathetic wannabe pedophile the next.... same should exist for shooting rocks one minute, and melting some New Order ***** face the next.


This is a good point, perhaps we should consider some way of turning ploughshears into swords, would a mining laser be really damaging if turned on a ship? Perhaps it should be.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...

Kiryen O'Bannon
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#83 - 2014-03-15 09:06:18 UTC
Quote:


That's right. Because they are pirates. You can't expect video game pirates to fight fair any more than you can expect Somali Pirates IRL to attack a United States Carrier Battle Group. Trying to call them video game cowards for role-playing pirates correctly is the only subhuman thing I see here.

Somali pirates have attacked both US and French warships on several occasions... by accident. It didnt end well for them.

As for one's moral fiber being indicated by their gameplay, and this hobby of totally unqualified people diagnosing mental sickness from the game attitudes of others...

This is a video game; a luxury passtime. While some forms of gameplay ( notably those that extend OUTSIDE the game) may indeed be morally questionable for their real consequences, the vast majority of game activities cannot be morally evaluated at all. Trying to do so inevitably runs into the huge inconsistency of "what does it say that you're spending time and money on this game instead of some work beneficial to your fellow?"

In which case we're off plumbing the depths of utilitarianism and all its associated problems.

In-game morality really only extends to how gameplay affects the game at large. Trying to tie it to out of game moral fiber without some supporting out of game effect (suicide threats over game events, for example) is just blowing the events of a video game wildly out of proportion.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#84 - 2014-03-15 09:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
This is a video game; a luxury passtime. While some forms of gameplay ( notably those that extend OUTSIDE the game) may indeed be morally questionable for their real consequences, the vast majority of game activities cannot be morally evaluated at all. Trying to do so inevitably runs into the huge inconsistency of "what does it say that you're spending time and money on this game instead of some work beneficial to your fellow?

Welcome to the vortex.

Someone will be along shortly to give you a guided tour.

I would particularly recommend the part of the tour covering how your perfectly logical approach has no meaning within the vortex. I'm sure this will be pointed out for you on multiple occasions.

The important thing is, remain calm. Do not panic by your confusion that logic has no meaning.

Enjoy your ride.
Tear Harvesters HaveNoLives
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-03-15 09:15:20 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
If the point of EVE is only PVP and all other activities are boring subhuman tasks.... give The Barges Turrets, Missiles, and a dominix drone bay.

Give the Freighters, and industrials a means to shoot back...

Your telling me that in a future where we can go damn near anywhere in the universe the merchant ships wouldn't have more guns than the Spanish Gold fleets?

..... So yeah, if the gankers are all about 'emergent' gameplay .... they should be campaigning to put a full rack of 8 turrets/missiles on every mining barge and freighter, up the mid slots to allow for EWAR... and deployable point defense systems in the belts.... after all, if we can have a mobile depot... why the hell wouldn't we deploy big ass sentry stations?


..... Oh wait, they only want to shoot targets, not hunt prey capable of being predators.

Not all gankers feel this way, perhaps not even most. Typically the biggest fools in society are also the most vocal hence why it seems so many gankers are like this. That is why it's also easier to just point and laugh at these sort of griefers than to try to argue or convince them otherwise.

I once had someone try to convince me he's "above me" on the EVE food chain because he ganks and I mine. He was saying this as I had 4 alts mining while my main and another alt were out ganking haulers.

The kind of person who enters a sandbox and tells people how to play with the sand is a simple fool, don't try to intellectualize their opinions too much.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#86 - 2014-03-15 09:18:36 UTC
Ahar. Before all this, you'll have to get the powers that be to attend Alcoholic's Anonymous. As long as they're spinning on their barstools gleefully hoisting mugs of Jaeger, the relevant brain lobes won't be in attendance. One can only imagine if and when this might occur. Hopefully before they find themselves stuck in a six-foot hole.

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2014-03-15 09:20:07 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
If the point of EVE is only PVP and all other activities are boring subhuman tasks.... give The Barges Turrets, Missiles, and a dominix drone bay.

Give the Freighters, and industrials a means to shoot back...

Your telling me that in a future where we can go damn near anywhere in the universe the merchant ships wouldn't have more guns than the Spanish Gold fleets?

..... So yeah, if the gankers are all about 'emergent' gameplay .... they should be campaigning to put a full rack of 8 turrets/missiles on every mining barge and freighter, up the mid slots to allow for EWAR... and deployable point defense systems in the belts.... after all, if we can have a mobile depot... why the hell wouldn't we deploy big ass sentry stations?


..... Oh wait, they only want to shoot targets, not hunt prey capable of being predators.

None of that will help your EHP any, so stack on all the guns you want. My Tornado was never coming home anyway.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#88 - 2014-03-15 09:24:04 UTC
Kyperion wrote:
'IRL' we are all carebears or we would be in jail... we do not however accept the idea that we may be killed because some thug wants a shiney... and in the United States, many of us carry concealed weapons through our daily lives for just such an eventuality... in a 'sandbox' game this should be an option, but isn't. I can hug my kids one minute, and draw on some pathetic wannabe pedophile the next.... same should exist for shooting rocks one minute, and melting some New Order ***** face the next.

We aren't playing in real life.

We are playing within a make believe galaxy under a fictional set of limits on what is lawful and what is not lawful.

To survive in the fictional World, you need to think in fictional terms, not RL terms.
Chianti
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2014-03-15 09:26:28 UTC
These threads just keep coming, it's an endless mind numbing cycle Roll
Every one thinks they have the cure to Eves problem, though by the look of active pilots lately I fail to see what the problem is, the game is healthy and seems pretty balanced.

Graduate of the Royal Amarrian Institute of Alt Posting, class of 2003.

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#90 - 2014-03-15 09:27:20 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kyperion wrote:
'IRL' we are all carebears or we would be in jail... we do not however accept the idea that we may be killed because some thug wants a shiney... and in the United States, many of us carry concealed weapons through our daily lives for just such an eventuality... in a 'sandbox' game this should be an option, but isn't. I can hug my kids one minute, and draw on some pathetic wannabe pedophile the next.... same should exist for shooting rocks one minute, and melting some New Order ***** face the next.

We aren't playing in real life.

We are playing within a make believe galaxy under a fictional set of limits on what is lawful and what is not lawful.

To survive in the fictional World, you need to think in fictional terms, not RL terms.


Actually, we are playing in real life. You might be sending your mind forth into whatever fictional world you're imagining, but your person is still anchored within "real life".

That's the problem with the whole disconnection you have. You think your actions against other people aren't being performed on real people because the setting is in a video game. But those characters are real people just like you, anchored in reality.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#91 - 2014-03-15 09:31:11 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Actually, we are playing in real life. You might be sending your mind forth into whatever fictional world you're imagining, but your person is still anchored within "real life".

That's the problem with the whole disconnection you have. You think your actions against other people aren't being performed on real people because the setting is in a video game. But those characters are real people just like you, anchored in reality.

Firstly, you have no evidence on which to judge whether I am disconnected or not. We have never interacted in game and I am not a ganker. So take your bullshit elsewhere.

Secondly, I said nothing about the silly moral compass crap your keep peddling.

The rules within EvE are not the same rules we each follow under criminal codes of our different societies.

To survive in EvE, you need to think in terms of the rules of the game.

Survival =/= anything to do with whatever choices you think are morally corrupt. To survive in EvE, apply the rules of EvE and make relevant choices accordingly. If you think bad boogy people are going to attack you because they are allowed to, then figure out within the rules how to prevent that.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#92 - 2014-03-15 09:37:34 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Actually, we are playing in real life. You might be sending your mind forth into whatever fictional world you're imagining, but your person is still anchored within "real life".

That's the problem with the whole disconnection you have. You think your actions against other people aren't being performed on real people because the setting is in a video game. But those characters are real people just like you, anchored in reality.

Firstly, you have no evidence on which to judge whether I am disconnected or not. We have never interacted in game and I am not a ganker. So take your bullshit elsewhere.

Secondly, I said nothing about the silly moral compass crap your keep peddling.

The rules within EvE are not the same rules we each follow under criminal codes of our different societies.

To survive in EvE, you need to think in terms of the rules of the game.

Survival =/= anything to do with whatever choices you think are morally corrupt. To survive in EvE, apply the rules of EvE and make relevant choices accordingly. If you think bad boogy people are going to attack you because they are allowed to, then figure out within the rules how to prevent that.


Alright, as long as you understand that people who do bad things are bad people. I notice you like to pretend that you're not you when you play video games so I felt it necessary to inform you that you still are.

Actions against other people with the intention to cause them misery does not exclude them from judgement just because they've performed the action within a "voodoo sphere".
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#93 - 2014-03-15 09:39:27 UTC
Do you guys ever notice that nearly all of the threads DE participates in end up in a ****-fest like this? Funny how that works.
Lady Areola Fappington
#94 - 2014-03-15 09:48:56 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Do you guys ever notice that nearly all of the threads DE participates in end up in a ****-fest like this? Funny how that works.



Bad people do bad things, as they say.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-03-15 09:49:11 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Before the DErailment goes too far, to the OP, I couldn't agree more, give the gankers exactly what you think they want.

Band together with other miners, get in some combat ships and declare war.

Go and fight them. You'll lose a lot of ships (because of experience and skill focus), but you might have a lot of fun.

hm.... do i pay for this game to deliver fun to some people i don't like? Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#96 - 2014-03-15 09:51:37 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Alright, as long as you understand that people who do bad things are bad people. I notice you like to pretend that you're not you when you play video games so I felt it necessary to inform you that you still are.

Actions against other people with the intention to cause them misery does not exclude them from judgement just because they've performed the action within a "voodoo sphere".

Ok, I'll bite.

Why am I a bad person? What have I done in the game that leads you to draw this conclusion? What have I ever done in game with the intention of causing misery on anyone?

If you can come up with even one example you'll be the greatest magician on earth.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2014-03-15 09:52:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
Alright, as long as you understand that people who do bad things are bad people.
Not if they do them in a game, no. Largely because, you know, it's in a game and the “bad” things they do have no bearing on reality.

Unless what you're trying to say is that bad people who do things in a game are bad people in-game, which obviously tells us nothing about how they are outside of the game.

Quote:
Actions against other people with the intention to cause them misery does not exclude them from judgement just because they've performed the action within a "voodoo sphere".
…but they do if it happens inside the magic circle. After all, that's how and the magic circle works and why it exists. It's also why play is so important at an early age: to build that crucial ability to separate the two modes and become healthy and well-adjusted people that can function in society.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#98 - 2014-03-15 09:55:48 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Alright, as long as you understand that people who do bad things are bad people. I notice you like to pretend that you're not you when you play video games so I felt it necessary to inform you that you still are.

Actions against other people with the intention to cause them misery does not exclude them from judgement just because they've performed the action within a "voodoo sphere".

Ok, I'll bite.

Why am I a bad person? What have I done in the game that leads you to draw this conclusion? What have I ever done in game with the intention of causing misery on anyone?

If you can come up with even one example you'll be the greatest magician on earth.


You're only a bad person if you perform those actions I've listed many times. I can't possibly know if you are or not, but I can lay out the criteria that defines the bad between the good. I can't tell you if you are, I can only tell how if you could be.

You tell me, are you?
Kiryen O'Bannon
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#99 - 2014-03-15 09:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiryen O'Bannon
Divine Entervention wrote:


Actually, we are playing in real life. You might be sending your mind forth into whatever fictional world you're imagining, but your person is still anchored within "real life".

That's the problem with the whole disconnection you have. You think your actions against other people aren't being performed on real people because the setting is in a video game. But those characters are real people just like you, anchored in reality.



All you're doing is engaging in tautology here. Of course other characters are played by real people; that's the definition of an MMO. What he's pointing out is that the premise of the game is not based on the ruleset we are obligated to follow in real life. All you've done is nitpick the semantics of how he said it and state the blindingly obvious.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#100 - 2014-03-15 09:58:22 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
You're only a bad person if you perform those actions I've listed many times. I can't possibly know if you are or not, but I can lay out the criteria that defines the bad between the good. I can't tell you if you are, I can only tell how if you could be.

You tell me, are you?
You didn't answer his question.