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Rifter changes, Viable solo PvP ship again? First post
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Gregor Parud

Imperial Academy

Likes received: 2,271

#61 - 2014-03-14 15:33:26 UTC

Charlie Firpol wrote:

Gregor Parud wrote:

Would the thread be about "how to fly this Rifter" or "how to make it work" then yes, we'll be talking about little tricks, how to optimise your sling shotting etc but we're not; we're talking about if ship A is on par with ship B and as such you have to look at them as "clean" as possible, focussing on stats and numbers.

If you would have to balance for a clean environment, you would be right. Fights in this game are everything but clean though.

Yes but since both "sides" can do it (which side is the smarter, better prepared pilot) it becomes a variable you can't control. "I know what I'm doing and have a bag of tricks, my target is clueless and stupid and doesn't use gang links/implants" is hardly something you want to incorporate into balancing discussions.

ISD Ezwal

ISD Community Communications Liaisons

ISD Alliance

Likes received: 4,696

#62 - 2014-03-15 00:27:21 UTC

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

34. Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited.

More often than not, posts of this nature are made with inflammatory intent and are designed to promote trolling and flaming. Therefore, the posting of links to kill reports from any third party site, or the direct copy-pasting of kill reports from in game is prohibited on all forum channels of the EVE Online Forums, with the exception of the Crime & Punishment Channel.
Specific rules regarding the omission of pilot names apply in this instance. Further details can be found in the rules stickies in the Crime & Punishment forum channel.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Ava Starfire

Khushakor Clan

Likes received: 1,652

#63 - 2014-03-15 13:04:30 UTC

3x 200mm AC II
Offline whatever for heat

Meta MSE
Faint Warp Disruptor
Limited MWD

Gyro II
Meta TE
Meta DCU (Pseudo)

Ambit
Extender rig
ACR rig (So it needs a fitting rig. So do LOTS of ships)

3.3k/sec isnt slow. 109 @ 19 or 137 at 12 doesnt suck.

The armor fit listed above by Zarnak is still better MOST OF THE TIME (I still prefer it with a 200 plate over the resist plating) and it does everything it used to do better. Is the current meta changed by the rifter? No.

Is the rifter particularly good at the current meta? No.

You know, that being said, I fly falloff wolves a lot, that are a full 1k slower than that rifter above, and I've done famously well in them. It isnt all about speed, even when kiting.

Can it purely kite as well as a condor? No.

Can a kitey condor go in close and survive, like the above rifter fits? No.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Doomheim 34
Crake Gaterau Doomheim Likes received: 34	#64 - 2014-04-02 20:08:54 UTC 2 The Lobsters wrote: Whatever luv, the thread's all yours. x imma gonna shoot me some crake. YOU BASTARD! <3

God's Apples

Wilderness

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Likes received: 636

#65 - 2014-04-02 21:33:57 UTC

Ava Starfire wrote:

You, as well as everyone else in this thread, don't understand how falloff works. You do 109 dps with barrage at 1km. At 19km (which is pretty close for a kiting frig to go against you) you're doing ~50 dps. At the edge of point range you're not even doing 30 dps. At that range you can't even break a merlin's passive recharge and an incursus can perma tank you with a t2 sar off of cap recharge and almost perma tank you with an AAR and no nanite.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX

The Lobsters

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 193

#66 - 2014-04-03 00:09:39 UTC

Ava Starfire wrote:

I'd have to concur with God's here. The AC barrage kiting Rifter can't do much more than annoy people. It does much better AB fit fighting between 12-16.

I have been having a lot of fun it this thing :-

[Rifter, 280mm Arty mwd mse]

Tracking Enhancer II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion S
280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion S
280mm 'Scout' Artillery I, Republic Fleet Fusion S
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

3808 m/s (5451 O/H), align 3.64 sec

O/H 70 DPS @ 20km, volley 629

3.55k ehp

Being arty, the dps doesn't describe it's effectiveness that well, but that volley really stick's it up em' :)

Dps with DU or Titanium @ 20 km is similar, with the tracking bonus of course.

The best reason to fly it is that it isn't expected, and as with all high volley fits it can startle people and put the pressure on their flying skills and gameplan. I've been enjoying a similar effect with an AB/Scram/LML Kessy lately too.

This does need a CA-1, CA-2, a +3PG and a Zor to get those numbers, but they aren't anything uncommon. Some might say that's standard. That it needs all that to fit is an issue with the fitting req's of small artillery, which is probably a topic for another thread.

Can it do the kitey thing as well as a condor? No. But that's all the condor really does. It's boring, predictable and something any mug can pull off. It does reward flying ability more than a Condor ever could, and has the advantage of appearing weaker than it actually is.

That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested his claim.

Task Force 641 Empyrean Edict 1,855
Zarnak Wulf Task Force 641 Empyrean Edict Likes received: 1,855	#67 - 2014-04-03 04:44:21 UTC I will just point out that a Kestrel puts out a 781 Alpha all the way to 63 km. 136 DPS overheated. Meta MSE. Only one fitting module needed. An Arty Rifter just can't compare to that.

Hrett

The Scope

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 410

#68 - 2014-04-03 05:45:25 UTC | Edited by: Hrett

On the ac discussion - I dont think barrage should be a primary choice for an ac rifter, but it is nice to be able to 50ish dps out to ~20k in a pinch. It aint the best, but its better than nothing. There are some kite frigs that fight in that area that have no tank at all so 50 dps can run them off sometimes. I dont fly laser ships, but with blasters you dont even have that option. I fought a neutron/null incursus earlier and it was doing ****-all dps at 7.5kish. Not sure how far small gun scorch hits.

I like the Rifter. Its a solid ship that does good dps and has good ehp. The thing that makes it really good is the damage type and range selection abilities. Plus the ability to fit a single rocket for extra dps. Not every utility high has to be fit with a neut. The ability to load fusion/nova against a gallente ship, for example, really make the Rifter's bite even better. And in a frigate fight, those small things make a huge difference. In certain Gallente setups, there are hard-counters that you run into, and if you guess the enemy fit wrong, you are just flat screwed. The AC rifter has some options at least out to 20k, and can engage more ships because of that ability. Just my opinion.

I'd like to try an arty Rifter, but I had severe fitting issues when I tried to come up with one. Seemed less viable But Ill give the one Lobsters posted a shot.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 2,240
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel Likes received: 2,240	#69 - 2014-04-04 21:41:27 UTC Sure it will be viable It won't be good but it won't be as hilariously bad as it is now.. (I'd like to stress that it will still not be good) BYDI recruitment closed-ish