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...its just a game...

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-03-14 21:50:56 UTC
In american football, the NFL, if a linebacker gets a hit on a running back that breaks his neck leading to him becoming a quadriplegic, should he feel bad? Granted, what he did was within the rules of the game. He was just doing his part, trying to tackle the guy with the ball. Through it, someone's life was forever ruined.

I bet that line backer would feel bad.

How would people look upon that linebacker who paralyzed a guy, if when asked about the instance he stated that he is proud of his ability to hit someone so hard that it breaks their neck, ruining his life. That's he's proud of his self for being so capable within the game that it has life ruining consequences outside of it? That he hopes to some day do it again?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#22 - 2014-03-14 21:54:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
La Rynx wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
In Eve however pretty much anything goes, if CCP are fine with it then it's within the rules of the game, and thus part of the game.


Thats my Point:
In EvE
This is pulled out of EvE and commpletly handled in TS and thats not fine anymore.
TheMittani got kicked for his drunktalk.

This guy humiliations got so far, i would be afraid to get my real name in the open RLif i would be him.
Thats what i mean, the "game" has to stop.

Be evil in eve but leave it there.

The "victims" could always say no, but they don't because they're greedy. As for it being taken OOG and into TS, singing and generally making a fool of yourself on TS for various purposes, including ransom was a thing way before Erotica started the isk doubling and bonus room malarky.

Mittens only went too far when he identified the player in question, he realised that, took his punishment from CCP, made a public apology and paid substantial ingame compensation to the player he singled out for attention. The alliance panel is renowned for its tomfoolery and one upmanship, it was only a matter of time before someone got plastered enough to take it a little too far.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#23 - 2014-03-14 21:59:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
How can you be a victim of giving someone else your money?

I mean, it's not even like ganking, where you are caught. In isk doubling you have to physically type in a number into a box and click send? Then download a program, install it, type in the details, etc. How can you be a victim of this? Unless you are being controlled Derren Brown style or something. Shocked
voetius
Grundrisse
#24 - 2014-03-14 22:01:42 UTC
La Rynx wrote:


into teamspeak and torture those people for 4-5 hours, i think CCP tolerates quite heavy missbehaviour.
The scam is...



Could you perhaps explain how you think CCP are to control what goes on in out-of-game tools like Teamspeak.

*misbehaviour
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-03-14 22:14:41 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
...it was only a matter of time before someone got plastered enough to take it a little too far.


Thats what i am talking of.
When will it be to far?

Seven Koskanaiken wrote:

How can you be a victim of giving someone else your money?


Victims of their own greed and naivity.
As i said absurd:
In EvE asking for absolute faith?
What?
Give away *all* my assets and my ingame info on rules that havent been merly specified to have "faith"?
Thats stupid.

However:
If you are violating someones dignity so deeply, you create a lot of out of game hatred.

voetius wrote:

Could you perhaps explain how you think CCP are to control what goes on in out-of-game tools like Teamspeak.


I am not talking of absolute control, but if cases get known and documented CCP should take a careful look.
But i see, you agree, TS is "out of Game (EvE)"



Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Salvos Rhoska
#26 - 2014-03-14 22:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Welcome to the age of misguided mothering.

Also, post on your main.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#27 - 2014-03-14 22:29:32 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
I hear this quite often when bad behaviour is beeing excused in chats and postings.
Well, yes, thats true, but even the participation in Online Games has repercussions in RL. Yes it IS a game, but real People are sitting on the other side of the monitors playing this game. Being connected to the characters in game.
What am i up to?

EvE is EvE a place where people can scam, gank, grief. Steal your trust and assets and ruin years of (real lifes) work.
You should know that when you play the game.

But:
When i see a certain scammer calling him "the only legit ISK doubler" i see someone who takes people out of eve, forces them into teamspeak and torture those people for 4-5 hours, i think CCP tolerates quite heavy missbehaviour.
The scam is, that you want to double the ISK you are told that you "won a bonus round", but only after you already sent the money. You are told the bonusround is won by beeing the 100thd double job, which is a lie.
legit? does the bio explain the won "bonus round"?
quite absurd that ppl do not realise that they got scammed, when they are told to have "absolute faith" in the scammer.
Absolute faith? in eve?
more absurdity, to continue you have to come into ts, give all assets to trusted ppl in the chat and give your API keys away.
After that, those victims do almost everything "voluntarily" since they have everything given away and rules are made up like the guys like.
New Eden is a harsh world, but this isn't a part of EvE anymore. EvE is abused to torture naive gamers for hours and force them to give up their dignity. The "Game" at that moment happens in RL and EvE is just a Tool for abuse.

Some ppl have such a major social misalignement, that even CCP shouldnt tolerate or overlook.


So you've met erotica then?

Just say no and HTFU etc.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#28 - 2014-03-14 22:29:37 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
...it was only a matter of time before someone got plastered enough to take it a little too far.


Thats what i am talking of.
When will it be to far?
The line has already been drawn, since it was drawn nobody has stepped over it.

Quote:
Victims of their own greed and naivity.
As i said absurd:
In EvE asking for absolute faith?
What?
Give away *all* my assets and my ingame info on rules that havent been merly specified to have "faith"?
Thats stupid.
You're correct, being willing to risk all your assets on a game where the house always wins is stupid, yet it happens every day, both in Eve and real life.

Quote:
However:
If you are violating someones dignity so deeply, you create a lot of out of game hatred.
The only people violating the contestants dignity in Eroticas games is themselves. Blaming Erotica for their own greed and naivety doesn't alter the fact that they volunteered to take part, and that they only need to disconnect, or say no initially to absolve themselves of being a greedy git.

Quote:
I am not talking of absolute control, but if cases get known and documented CCP should take a careful look.
But i see, you agree, TS is "out of Game (EvE)"
How are they to do this, are they to monitor Eve related TS channels, are we to get CCP representatives in out of game communications that CCP have no control over anyway, because they're not hosted or affiliated with CCP in any way other than the users play Eve?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-03-14 22:34:26 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
In Eve however pretty much anything goes, if CCP are fine with it then it's within the rules of the game, and thus part of the game.


Thats my Point:
In EvE
This is pulled out of EvE and commpletly handled in TS and thats not fine anymore.
TheMittani got kicked for his drunktalk.

This guy humiliations got so far, i would be afraid to get my real name in the open RLif i would be him.
Thats what i mean, the "game" has to stop.

Be evil in eve but leave it there.


Jonah, let's be clear - you're one of "those people" we don't come out and name when talking about scammers, trolls, and the like.

Like Erotica1, whom the OP is kind enough not to name in her scam-description, but I have no such convictions when it comes to certain player behavior.

Personally, I have no sympathy for those that get scammed by obvious scams. As mentioned here, all you have to do is say "no". When a player falls for ISK doubling in general, I laugh and say "Dude, really?"

But when the scams get very complex and no longer are about the ISK ... when they involve humiliating the player out of game, or feature out-of-game websites (such as the EVE-Bazaar.com scam), and DEFINITELY when they involve posting RL pictures, that's when I believe CCP needs to step in and shut the behavior down. Large, wide strikes with the ban hammer heartily encouraged.

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Salvos Rhoska
#30 - 2014-03-14 22:37:25 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
But when the scams get very complex and no longer are about the ISK ... when they involve humiliating the player out of game, or feature out-of-game websites (such as the EVE-Bazaar.com scam), and DEFINITELY when they involve posting RL pictures, that's when I believe CCP needs to step in and shut the behavior down. Large, wide strikes with the ban hammer heartily encouraged.


Then take that up with CCP.

To my knowledge, they take action on the above as is already.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-03-14 22:40:16 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

[quote]However:
If you are violating someones dignity so deeply, you create a lot of out of game hatred.


The only people violating the contestants dignity in Eroticas games is themselves. Blaming Erotica for their own greed and naivety doesn't alter the fact that they volunteered to take part, and that they only need to disconnect, or say no initially to absolve themselves of being a greedy git.


Using a person's failing to draw out the humiliation is not an excuse. It's a clear cut example of sadism.

Greed is bad. Stupidity is bad. Sadism is worse.

Malicious intent is where most societies draw the line between "slap on the wrist" and "federal offense".

You never fly alone - Broadcast 4 Reps | Twitter: @thecoffeerocks | Steam: CoffeeRocks
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#32 - 2014-03-14 22:41:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Jonah, let's be clear - you're one of "those people" we don't come out and name when talking about scammers, trolls, and the like.
You can call me what you want, it doesn't make it true. Your name and shame policy has no meaning when it names and shames people who don't actually do the things you accuse them of. At best it's unsupported hearsay.

I don't scam, and rarely troll those who aren't already trolling, about the only thing I am guilty of is shitposting, which everybody does, including yourself P

Quote:
Using a person's failing to draw out the humiliation is not an excuse. It's a clear cut example of sadism.

Greed is bad. Stupidity is bad. Sadism is worse.

Malicious intent is where most societies draw the line between "slap on the wrist" and "federal offense".
Whilst a good point, it doesn't alter the fact that it takes two to tango, and that the person being greedy and stupid is just as much to blame as the person taking advantage of their stupidity and greed.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-03-14 22:48:32 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Welcome to the age of misguided mothering.

ooh tough guy!

More than the victims my thoughts are: what does this to EvEs reputation?
May i remind you CCP wants more Players and even PvPlers would like to have more challenges.
Well the PvPlers that dont suck at PvP.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Also, post on your main.

For what reason?

So that if my posts offended you, you can shoot it out with me?
You in your Tengu and me in my Hulk?
So than i can get bullied if i discuss my opinion in the forums.

Yeah i am sure you would like that.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Salvos Rhoska
#34 - 2014-03-14 22:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
This is an attempt at social fascism.

You have no business dictating to other people how they should behave.

I have no interest in killing your ships.
The purpose of posting on your main is to show sincere intent and accountability, which you do not by shitposting on trash alt.

Who the **** are you to dictate to others what is right or wrong?
Who the **** are you to tell me how to live my life and the choices I make?

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-03-14 22:53:11 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:


Whilst a good point, it doesn't alter the fact that it takes two to tango, and that the person being greedy and stupid is just as much to blame as the person taking advantage of their stupidity and greed.


I think it's fairly understood that so many people in the world want to better themselves that saying "everyone" is OK, though it's an absolute.

Everyone wants to better himself. Everyone would like to be more secure in themselves through tons of different ways.

The issue with these "scams" is it's preying upon other's desire to better themselves by lying to those people saying partaking in the action will result in their betterment, when in reality the intention is to strip that person of their possessions and possibly their dignity for the enjoyment of the "scammer".

It's people preying on vulnerability through deceit.

It's possible, and it takes one person willing to steal and one person wanting to get more. But everyone wants more, even the guy stealing. The problem is the guy scamming is using his "wanting to get more" as justification for his lying and stealing.

People who scam others out of their possessions through lying and what are ultimately "false promises" are liars, and liars are bad people. Thiefs are bad people too.
Vyl Vit
#36 - 2014-03-14 22:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
DaReaper wrote:
Serene Repose wrote:
Yeah. Go out in March Madness, clothesline a driving point-guard, and as his bench clears (heading in your direction) turn to the ref and tell him that. "It's just a game." THEN, find a good dentist to get those new caps. "It's just a game."

I'll tell you who says "It's just a game." Idiots. But, then, if you can figure out how to keep an idiot quiet, let us know. Nobel might even invent a special prize just for you.

*Grabs her nine-mil and heads out for football practice.*


This is honestly one of the worst analogies I have ever seen.

Essentually you are compairing a physical game with a virtural game... Which there is no comparison.

A game's a game...I think that was the point. You gonna be okay?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-03-14 22:54:45 UTC
Agree with OP. CCP should have clear boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not. Though I don't think they should concern themselves with what happens on Teamspeak they should concern themselves if that behavior is then linked back to EvE.

Right now I think EvE's reputation is extremely poor. The general consensus of the non-EvE gaming community is EvE is full of griefers, exploiters and gankers and CCP encourage (Hulkageddon as an example) such behavior.

In terms of legitimacy, CCP's reputation is mud, devs giving out items illicitly to their friends (T20), devs and alliances in game playing together, devs and alliance leaders being friends, devs...

Its a shame because EvE is fundamentally a pretty beautiful game, abeit with lots of bugs and no focus on fixing those, which has been let down by CCP since Oveur left.

Management at CCP is apparently asleep at the helm.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-03-14 23:04:35 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
This is an attempt at social fascism.

You have no business dictating to other people how they should behave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Having an Oppinon is no "fascism" and you have to show me, where i "dictated" something.

I get this more often when somebody doesn't like my arguments and have no real arguments against them.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:

I have no interest in killing your ships.
The purpose of posting on your main is to show benign and sincere intent, which you do not by shitposting on trash alt.


You tell me this ALT is less sincere and benign then my other ALTS?
From the contents its clearly anything else than a "shitposting".

On the other hand i have seen it more than once, that ppl get harrased in Eve for their opinions. My ALTS are an investmend and have to be protected.


A lot of people in Eve that ask for sincerity, look foward to exploit it.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#39 - 2014-03-14 23:10:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
La Rynx wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
This is an attempt at social fascism.

You have no business dictating to other people how they should behave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Having an Oppinon is no "fascism" and you have to show me, where i "dictated" something.

I get this more often when somebody doesn't like my arguments and have no real arguments against them.

Salvos Rhoska wrote:

I have no interest in killing your ships.
The purpose of posting on your main is to show benign and sincere intent, which you do not by shitposting on trash alt.


You tell me this ALT is less sincere and benign then my other ALTS?
From the contents its clearly anything else than a "shitposting".

On the other hand i have seen it more than once, that ppl get harrased in Eve for their opinions. My ALTS are an investmend and have to be protected.


A lot of people in Eve that ask for sincerity, look foward to exploit it.


Here's a bit about Salvos. He states that the only thing people should be concerned about is their own selves. Granted, that's the case, very basically.

What he doesn't take into consideration is that there are those of us who no longer need to spend the full 100% of our thought process on monitoring and providing for our own successful living experience, and with that extra left over percentage we wish to reach out.

To reach out and instead of only spend all of our time focusing solely on ourselves, interact with others during that bit of extra time we have. Now, Salvos, stating that it's only proper to care about your own self, distinguishes himself as someone who you would not want to associate with, because he is clearly stating his position in life: Everything he does is for only his own benefit.

But luckily for us, there are those of us who managing ourselves isn't so difficult that we get the opportunity to experience and interact with others. Because we do want to enjoy ourselves with our time interacting with others, we will meet a person and determine if that person is someone worth continuing to subject ourselves to. Some are worth spending time with, some are not.

Because we are hoping to have fun with ourselves and with others, we look for qualities in others we wish to have more experience with in our lives.

He doesn't get that, he sees everything as everyone working solely for their own benefit, while the rest of us are looking for ways to benefit ourselves and everyone else willing to feel and act the same way.

Do not waste your time explaining yourself to him.

he doesn't "get" it. He has a very animalistic outlook on life.
Salvos Rhoska
#40 - 2014-03-14 23:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Everyone has an opinion.

Its when you try to argue your opinion should be enforced over the autonomy of others, that it is fascism.

That is what your posts have been here.

Posting on this trash alt indicates you wish to avoid accountability.
Its convenient to sling crapnlike a monkey at others, when you are disguising yourself, eh?

By all means, create a Corp or organisation ingame which plays according to how you want to play, but do not make the mistake you have any prerogative to dictate the behavior or choices of other individuals, or dictate to CCP what they should or shouldnt do.

Go ahead. Make a Corp with Divine and other such social fascists.
It will be hilarious to watch it tear itself to peices when you begin to show your true faces and nature, or latest, when someone plays yournsilly pretences and pontification for the fool, and AWOXs it into oblivion.

Go ahead. Do it. Dont just whine, put your money where your mouth is.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent