These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

The Bank of Far -- Closed

First post
Author
Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-14 06:08:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
This thread shall serve as the thread of record for the banking activities of the Bank of Far (BFAR), comprising its list of customers, their earnings, BFAR’s total customer payouts to date, a Prospectus, a list of Frequently Asked Questions and a wait list.

********************

CUSTOMER LIST:

Customer 1: Issac Haydron
Since: February 2014
Deposit: 100,000,000
Earnings to date: 108,816,868
(Payouts received exceeds deposit.)

Customer 2: Cas Aiger
Since: March 2014
Deposit: 100,000,000
Earnings to date: 83,245,523


Customer 3: Koniforous
Since: April 2014
Deposit: 100,000,000
Earnings to date: 65,853,476


Customer 4: Styx Titan
Since: May 2014
Deposit: 100,000,000
Earnings to date: 24,317,318


Customer 5: Artorius Noir
Since: May 2014
Deposit: 10,000,000
Earnings to date: 2,431,732

********************

BFAR'S TOTAL CUSTOMER EARNINGS TO DATE: 284,664,919 ISK

February 2014; March 2014; April 2014; May 2014

********************

Prospectus


FAQ

Wait List

********************

We’re happy to respond to questions and comments that are on topic and posted in good faith.

We’re just as happy to ignore comments and questions that are not.

Thanks for reading.

♪ ♫ ♪

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-03-14 06:08:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
PROSPECTUS


1. DEPOSITS and WITHDRAWALS

1.1 Minimum deposit: 10,000,000 ISK
1.2 Customers may make one withdrawal or deposit per month, in 10,000,000 ISK increments.
1.3 All such activity is limited to the first ten (10) days of the month (e.g. between the 1st and the 10th of the month).

2. ACCOUNTS
2.2 Maximum account balance: 100,000,000 ISK
2.3 By making a deposit, customer consents to BFAR's use of their name, account information and communications.

3. PAYOUTS
3.1 Each month customers are issued one payout.
3.2 Payouts are issued between the 1st and the 10th, for the prior month's activity (see METHOD below).
3.3 Payouts are transferred from BFAR's banking wallet to the customer's personal wallet.
3.4 No payout shall be less than 10% of a customer's deposit.

4. RESERVE
4.1 BFAR maintains a separate wallet division with an ISK ballance equal to the sum total of all customer deposits.

5. CUSTOMER BASE
5.1 BFAR will service no more than five accounts at a time.

6. METHOD
6.1 BFAR operates in monthly cycles.
6.2 Each month, BFAR bundles customer deposits with BFAR's own ISK and invests this pool of funds in the Essence Regional market, via buy and sell orders.
6.3 Profit/Loss is calculated at the end of each month, and payouts are issued to customers between the 1st and the 10th of the following month.
6.4 Profit is allotted to customers, and to BFAR, based on the percentage of the total investment pool held by each customer and BFAR.

Example:
Customer 1 deposits 100,000,000 ISK.
Customer 2 deposits 10,000,000 ISK.
BFAR invests 50,000,000 ISK
The total investment pool is 160,000,000 ISK.

Customer 1 receives 62.5% of any profit.
Customer 2 receives 6.25%.
BFAR receives 31.25%.

A profit of 100,000,000 ISK would be allotted as follows:
62,500,000 ISK to Customer 1
6,250,000 ISK to Customer 2
31,250,000 ISK to BFAR

6.5 Any payout found to be less than 10% of a customer's account balance shall be increased to equal 10% of the customer's account balance.

7. DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
7.1 BFAR reserves the right to fire customers at any time.
7.2 BFAR reserves the right to revise or delete the terms of the Prospectus at any time.
7.3 In the event of extraordinary circumstances, BFAR reserves the right to ignore the terms of the Prospectus.

And that's it.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-03-14 06:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Frequently Asked Questions

Q. Are customer deposits, as well as BFAR's banking activities, insured against loss by a trusted 3rd party?
A. No.

Q. Why does BFAR publish customer information?
A. BFAR makes available customer information so that potential customers may:

  • Contact our customers in order to independently confirm the accuracy of our statements.
  • Learn directly from our customers how good or bad we are doing.

Q. How can BFAR guarantee a 10% minimum return per month?
A. As a corporation, BFAR has conducted market activities out of Clorteler and otherwise operated in the Essence region since 2010. We know our way around the neighborhood. See also BFAR’s list of income sources (below) that will be utilized to fund monthly customer payouts, if necessary.

Q. Including banking, what are BFAR’s sources of income?

A. BFAR’s per month income averages 380 million ISK, broken down as follows:

  • Banking: 100 million
  • Mining: 30 million
  • PI: 250 million

Q. Why is BFAR limiting its total customer base to five active customers?
A. REVISED 5/26/2014: 500,000,000 ISK is the current limit of other capsuleer's ISK that BFAR is comfortable trading with on the open market.

Q. Will BFAR ever allow deposits beyond one hundred million ISK?
A. REVISED 5/26/2014: at this time BFAR is looking into the possibility of a July or August expansion based on new account types.

Q. How long may a customer keep a deposit with BFAR?
A. Indefinitely.

Q. Does BFAR extend loans to capsuleers?
A. Not at this time
A. As of 4/15/2014, the Bank of Far recommends TAUTX Bank: Savings & Loan to all capsuleers in need of a loan.

Q. Does BFAR act as a 3rd party?
A. No.

Q. Does BFAR offer API verification?
A. No.

Q. What happens if BFAR fires a customer?
A. The ex-customer's deposit is returned promptly and in full, and the customer is thanked for their business and their trust.
A. BFAR keeps all unpaid ISK earned off of the customer's deposit.

Q. When do I get paid, exactly?
A. If your account is active for the month of April, for example, you will be issued one payout between the 1st and 10th of May.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Nedly Stark
ARAZ Engineering
#4 - 2014-03-14 07:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Nedly Stark
Oh this is going to be interesting..

So you're a 'regional' bank but you don't offer loans. What this really is, is a bond offering with no collateral. People give you 100 million isk for what appears to be revenue generating tasks such as P.I & mining. I'm confused as to how or where your revenue comes from under the "banking" category if you don't offer loans? There are only so many ways you can dance around and entice what you're really after, other peoples isk to do whatever with it.

Sorry but this is going to be a total flop just like the other 3,000 banks before you.

;edit

I had to come back to add more to my post because I thought it was too derogatory and didn't want to sound like a complete ass, so I did the liberty of making a checklist summing up your FAQ/Prospectus.

Quote:
Q. Are BFAR’s banking activities backed up by a trusted 3rd party?
A. No.



What do you mean backed? Sounds like you're trying to have your liquidity backed by physical assets aka collateral held by a third party aka Chribba.

Quote:
Q. Why does BFAR publish customer information?
A. BFAR makes available customer information so that potential customers may:


Contact our depositors in order to independently confirm the accuracy of our statements.
Learn directly from our customers how good or bad we are doing.


If your bank in real life told you that your saving account was earning 10% interest rate for free would you believe them?


Quote:
Q. How can BFAR guarantee a 10% minimum return per month?
A. As a corporation, BFAR has conducted market activities out of Clorteler and otherwise operated in the Essence region since 2010. We know our way around the neighborhood. See also BFAR’s list of income sources (below) that will be utilized to fund monthly customer payments, if necessary.


This Q/A shoots yourself in the foot mainly because right off the bat, with EVEs steeped history of inter-corporate (or outer corporate) betrayals, I wouldn't trust a corp with any amount of isk. Hell, even if it was collateralized.

Quote:
Q. Including banking, what are BFAR’s sources of income?
A. BFAR’s per month income averages 230 million ISK, broken down as follows:


Banking: 100 million
Mining: 30 million
PI: 250 million


As my original post says, I fail to see how 'banking' generates you an isk worth of revenue if you aren't in the business of loans. Mining & PI numbers will definitely have to be audited. (30 million for mining isn't impressive at all by the way, but the thought that you're claiming 30 million gives it a notion that it should be checked and looked into).


Quote:
Q. Does BFAR extend loans to capsuleers?
A. Not at this time


Just go to investopedia and look up what a bank is. What you're trying to run here is a bond, I'm beginning to sound like a broken record.


Whew.
Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-14 07:59:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Nedly Stark wrote:
I'm confused as to how or where your revenue comes from under the "banking" category if you don't offer loans?
See the prospectus.

EDIT: Thank you for taking the time to clarify and expand on your original post. The change in tone is appreciated.
Nedly Stark wrote:
What do you mean backed?
The phrase "backed (up)" as used in the sentence you quoted means, "insured against loss of customer deposits, such that if BFAR fails there are assets in place that can be sold off in order to allow customers to recoup their total deposit, where such assets are held and will be sold in the event of bank failure."

Thus:
Q. Are BFAR’s banking activities insured against loss of customer deposits, such that if BFAR fails there are assets in place that can be sold off in order to allow customers to recoup their total deposit, where such assets are held and will be sold in the event of bank failure by a trusted 3rd party?
A. No.
Nedly Stark wrote:
If your bank in real life told you that your saving account was earning 10% interest rate for free would you believe them?
No.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#6 - 2014-03-14 08:03:23 UTC
I would like to reserve the next available account for the maximum amount, please.
Nedly Stark
ARAZ Engineering
#7 - 2014-03-14 08:07:27 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:
Nedly Stark wrote:
I'm confused as to how or where your revenue comes from under the "banking" category if you don't offer loans?
See the prospectus.


Yea.. This is a bond offering. Banks make their flagship revenue off of interest rates from loans (and other fees).
Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-03-14 08:16:49 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
I would like to reserve the next available account for the maximum amount, please.
Done.

BFAR will be happy to accept your deposit between the 1st and 10th of April, 2014.

An email will be sent to you confirming your deposit once it has been received by BFAR.

Thank you for your interest and (most importantly) for your trust.

♪ ♫ ♪

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#9 - 2014-03-14 08:36:47 UTC
Nedly Stark wrote:
Far Wanderer wrote:
Nedly Stark wrote:
I'm confused as to how or where your revenue comes from under the "banking" category if you don't offer loans?
See the prospectus.


Yea.. This is a bond offering. Banks make their flagship revenue off of interest rates from loans (and other fees).


Banks generate income from a variety of sources, most common among those being loans. Maybe Far will expand into loans and bonds if her bank performs well in the future. Give her a chance and maybe ask some clarifying questions rather than joining the typical this-is-a-bond bandwagon witch-hunt against bank threads. People like to role play banks. Let it happen, man. Lets try to be constructive. A savings bond is identical to a savings account at a bank. It's pointless to come into a banking thread and call it a bond. Why? Because, a bond aims to pool funds together to perform its desired service. Guess what, a bank does that too! With both, the end service result is always to generate profitability / sustainability. If her 'bank' of funds is doing that, I don't really care what she, or you call it.

I like the idea of full reserve banking, Far. I'm considering doing it for my bank, and similar to your "in-house" style of backing yourself with a separate wallet division.

I would like to see some form of proof of profit. Have you signed up for Eve-mogul, yet? I especially like that service! It's free for the first few days, and 50mil for 30 day subs thereafter. It would be nice to be able to check in on your public profile there and see how well your bank is performing, and see what kind of payout might be expected towards the end of the month.
Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-03-14 09:47:23 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
People like to role play banks. Let it happen, man. Lets try to be constructive. (snip) If her 'bank' of funds is doing that, I don't really care what she, or you call it.
Thank you for the support and positive attitude. Both are rare in bank threads.
Koniforous wrote:
I like the idea of full reserve banking, Far. I'm considering doing it for my bank, and similar to your "in-house" style of backing yourself with a separate wallet division.
Big smile
Koniforous wrote:
I would like to see some form of proof of profit. Have you signed up for Eve-mogul, yet? (snip) It would be nice to be able to check in on your public profile there and see how well your bank is performing, and see what kind of payout might be expected towards the end of the month.
We have toured the Eve-mogul website. While its services appear useful and the interface and layout look both impressive and easy to use, we found the cost-benefit to be lacking.

Specifically: we'd rather distribute 50,000,000 ISK in payouts to customers than deduct a like amount from our monthly income to pay for a service that mimics a set of skills we've already mastered, and otherwise utilize a simple spreadsheet for.

None of this services your legitimate desire for transparency, of course.

If you will allot us a measure of patience, we feel that you will come to regard the regular monthly payments that will be made to your soon-to-be-open account to constitute all the proof of profit you will ever need.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Magnu Stormhawk
#11 - 2014-03-14 12:00:18 UTC
Charles Ponzi wrote:

If you will allot us a measure of patience, we feel that you will come to regard the regular monthly payments that will be made to your soon-to-be-open account to constitute all the proof of profit you will ever need.


I think you will find that many people will be wary of such reliance, given how similar ventures have in the past gained investment and momentum through 'proof of profit' through payments alone, and ended up sour.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#12 - 2014-03-14 12:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Far Wanderer wrote:
DEPOSIT INSURANCE
BFAR maintains a separate wallet division with an ISK ballance equal to the sum total of all customer deposits.
BFAR does not service more accounts than it is capable of insuring with this wallet division.


If you keep liquid ISK equal to what investors give you, and you're assuming the risk by ensuring they will get their ISK back, then why would you need to take anyone else's ISK in the first place?
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
#13 - 2014-03-14 14:40:52 UTC
Apart from everything mentioned so far (sic!), this part of the FAQ ...

Far Wanderer wrote:
Frequently Asked Questions

Q. How can BFAR guarantee a 10% minimum return per month?
A. As a corporation, BFAR has conducted market activities out of Clorteler and otherwise operated in the Essence region since 2010. We know our way around the neighborhood. See also BFAR’s list of income sources (below) that will be utilized to fund monthly customer payments, if necessary.

Q. Including banking, what are BFAR’s sources of income?

A. BFAR’s per month income averages 380 million ISK, broken down as follows:

  • Banking: 100 million
  • Mining: 30 million
  • PI: 250 million


..., which gives away your locations and sources of income is an invitation to every highsec ganker in EVE. That's not a way to ensure customers, even when "transparency" might be the motive.

EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager.

Koniforous
Tauren Transit
#14 - 2014-03-14 16:04:50 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Far Wanderer wrote:
DEPOSIT INSURANCE
BFAR maintains a separate wallet division with an ISK ballance equal to the sum total of all customer deposits.
BFAR does not service more accounts than it is capable of insuring with this wallet division.


If you keep liquid ISK equal to what investors give you, and you're assuming the risk by ensuring they will get their ISK back, then why would you need to take anyone else's ISK in the first place?


This type of banking is called full reserve banking. Fractional reserve banking, the type of banking that caused the great depression and also the insolvency of EBANK, is by far more profitable, but less dependable from an account holder's viewpoint.

I noticed you said something similar on my thread, and I think what you're missing is that some people actually like to provide a service for people, offering them a slice of the pie, where others (like you) might consider that service simply being in debt.

Far, can you expand on the customer dropping policy? Do you issue your client's deposit back, and any partially accrued interest, or do you just give them the boot and keep the loot?
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#15 - 2014-03-14 16:31:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Koniforous wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Far Wanderer wrote:
DEPOSIT INSURANCE
BFAR maintains a separate wallet division with an ISK ballance equal to the sum total of all customer deposits.
BFAR does not service more accounts than it is capable of insuring with this wallet division.


If you keep liquid ISK equal to what investors give you, and you're assuming the risk by ensuring they will get their ISK back, then why would you need to take anyone else's ISK in the first place?


This type of banking is called full reserve banking. Fractional reserve banking, the type of banking that caused the great depression and also the insolvency of EBANK, is by far more profitable, but less dependable from an account holder's viewpoint.

I noticed you said something similar on my thread, and I think what you're missing is that some people actually like to provide a service for people, offering them a slice of the pie, where others (like you) might consider that service simply being in debt.

Far, can you expand on the customer dropping policy? Do you issue your client's deposit back, and any partially accrued interest, or do you just give them the boot and keep the loot?


it just makes no sense unless you're going to scam or just really, really like to roleplay. If you don't scam then you are basically paying interest to someone else to use your own ISK. Collateral makes sense if the items are slow moving, expected to increase in price (and you trust the person holding them) or need the money instantly. Nobody trusts you guys popping up every other day shouting about your "banks", you're just like the scammers in Jita who copy the newest successful scam, except you're all a few years too late.
Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-03-14 18:48:52 UTC
Koniforous wrote:
(snip) and I think what you're missing is that some people actually like to provide a service for people, offering them a slice of the pie.
Exactly.

We at the Bank of Far are not interested in pushing all of our ISK into the marketplace.

Because we enjoy playing with other people's money (up to a point), it only makes sense that we use our ISK reserve (read: ISK sitting in a wallet division, doing nothing) in a responsible manner such that we cover our customer's deposits in the event those deposits are lost.

Koniforous wrote:
Far, can you expand on the customer dropping policy? Do you issue your client's deposit back, and any partially accrued interest, or do you just give them the boot and keep the loot?
If we fire a customer, they get their full deposit back and we keep any interest earned. We then notify them of the return of their deposit and thank them for their business and their trust.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

Far Wanderer
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-03-14 19:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Far Wanderer
Hel O'Ween wrote:
..., which gives away your locations and sources of income is an invitation to every highsec ganker in EVE.
Your point is one we considered when deliberating whether or not to include other income information.

We decided that transparency was more important. Also that we could afford to lose all customers who felt otherwise.

I really am wasting my breath though, when you can avoid questions from Hexxx and RAW23 like that you must have some seriously devoted investors. --Elizabeth Norn

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2014-03-15 00:39:20 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#19 - 2014-03-15 03:17:19 UTC
Far Wanderer wrote:
Hel O'Ween wrote:
..., which gives away your locations and sources of income is an invitation to every highsec ganker in EVE.
Your point is one we considered when deliberating on whether or not to include other income information.

We decided that transparency was more important. Also that we could afford to lose all customers who felt otherwise.




"we"





You might as well just admit it's an uncollateralized bond, because then you can actually get people to invest. And then you steal their isk, which is your objective.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#20 - 2014-03-15 07:40:14 UTC
I think this is a fabulous idea, and you should open up additional investment.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.

123Next pageLast page