EVE General Discussion

Scipio seemed to be arguing that acquiring fractionally more SP early on is outweighed by developing a versatile and functional character. Players barely notice the time saving implants make when they are training 1-3 skills and they are probably losing some SP anyway by training a handful of offspec skills to avoid wasting remaps. It's sensible to sacrifice some SP efficiency in favour of utility in the early stages - good luck explaining that in under 500 words in rookie chat. Extra % SP on a character with a **** skillset is still a **** character, regardless whether they are at 5s or trained at max speed.

The reason people give advice like this is due to the muppetoids who (based on PTW scenarios in other games) do stuff like this:

• train cyber5 immediately
• sell a plex
• inject +5s
• train something ridiculous like Spaceship Command > Advanced Spaceship Command
• inform rookie chat they are awesome, then bellyach that the game is rubbish because they have to wait to play
• scream in outrage when they realise Titan skillbooks have multiple pre-reqs
• run to the forums and demand skill changes/extra remaps

It takes too long to explain the rationale - particularly in rookie chat which moves so fast - so people say things like "Don't worry about implants early on, focus on a decent spread of core skills". It's not bad advice, it's not uninformed, it's just shorthand. Granted some people probably repeat it unaware the SP acquisition rate is the same overall, so what? OP sounds like one of those who whips out a calculator and screams about SP efficiency in reply.

Level 1-3 Implants are given as rewards in the NPE or by low level agents, it's expected they will be used. It's at 4-5 where the cyber skilltraining time and the cost of the implants create queries about when people should sensibly aim to get them. I tend to say, "when you can afford it" - and again, people like the OP counter with how much SP per year you stand to lose if you don't get them immediately.

Oh, and if this is driving the OP nuts, wait til you see "I mined it myself, so it's free". Someone on the internet is wroooong. Get a grip! You're not going to come and write a complaint in GD every time someone makes you mad are you?

If anything - you can argue that implants are relatively better when you don't have perfect remap for your current skill plan. Because then they make up more % of what your SP gain is. +4 to a stat of 20 is more that +4 to a stat of 25. It's ofc circling logic, but makes a lot more sense than what you are trying to say.

"When I try to get 5 skills to level V" I still use implants, the same implants that I used to get them to level IV. And they still give me relatively same speed gain they used to and allow me to start to train those "5 level V" skill earlier.

Imagine a situation that 2 players start playing and play for a year. One has used implants from the very beginning. The other one when he had to train to get certain skills to level 5. According to you the second player has more SP, because his actual absolute value of SP is bigger! It's garbage

You can argue about using +5 implants (because you want to do something after playing for a month, not after a year when they start to show decent return) but saying that implants altogether are better for people more advanced in the game is just wrong.

---edit---

Marsha made a lot of good points and I can stand the "implant thing" put this way. It makes sense :P

I'm too lazy to actually look it up but depending on what you want to train, you gain a fairly marginal amount of training time saved by using +5's over +3's right away, not to mention the ISK difference. There are obviously benefits, improving training time while still saving a newer player ISK to throw away on actually learning how to play the game. That said, if you plan on sitting an alt in a station for an extremely prolonged period of time and you can afford it, it's probably worth it to spring for the +5's.

I'm sure there are some who think the effect changes but I suspect it's really another form of shorthand, ie "You'll see the benefit of implants when you start to train level 5s" actually meaning, you'll notice it more. It's rare to see anyone considering long term training plans at the start, it takes that early time to understand the training system and appreciate the effect of remaps/implants. Rookies repeat advice they've seen to each other if it's perceived as accepted wisdom, mainly to be helpful, so it's not entirely their fault if they misunderstand.

It's not so much a laid back attitude as an effort to give advice that won't horrify or confuse. Telling a day old player +4s are probably worth aiming for unless they plan on PVPing immediately, or +5s long term, tends to make them worry about the cost. Cyber 4 takes three days without an attribute remap, which is nothing after 30 days training, but is a huge amount in the first week. There are more immediate ingame benefits using that time for essential core skills. No one has to take advice from other players (sometimes it is twaddle), but with issues like this where it's more about judgement than on-paper efficiency, it's a mistake to assume ignorance.

The lower stat implants tend to drop as rewards via PVE roughly around when they are needed too, so it's safe to assume most players will come across them in the first month. By the time they start looking at higher sets they are in a position to afford them - which tends to be coincidentally when they start to think about level 5 skills. Lot of generalising there, but if you consider why misconceptions like this take root - does it really matter all that much in the end?

As has been said before: It doesn't matter what multiplier skill or what level you train for, the amount of time you save is always the same.

I hope you're right, but the sheer amount of confusion and misinformation I've seen about the skill system over the years make me far more cynical towards what the more plausible explanation is…

Different implants give different atributes so you can get more SP, atributes are the key, implants and remaps are there to boost your atributes and in turn the SP gained https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Attribute

After you plug it in, you are doing more SP per minute, and you can get those 768 000 SP faster at lvl V. Flat bonus, but it costs you less time for lvl V with higher atributes than with lower, atributes coresponding to this skill I have to add. So, when you have to make more SP per minute and the amount of SP is huge for that lvl V skill, you would want to plug in +5.

Six weeks into the game, and he knows everything....All hail the new Mittens?

You sir need to buy and train reading comprehension to at least lvl 4 before quoting me again. I'm done with spoon feeding trolls and idiots.

You are very very confused. Implants are not skills are not attributes, and the differences between different-bonused implants were still never in question.

So no. It's still a flat increase no matter what you're training and no matter what level it is.

So the OP manages to keep you sane, then, I take it.