EVE General Discussion

steering wheel in pants

i don;t use implants, i die too often and they cost too much. But the vet is not wrong, nor are you. what they are saying is that 10% or whatever you shave off a skill you really won;t see much of a difference at lvl 1- 3 you will save maybe a few min on lvl 1, maybe 10 on lvl 2, maybe an hour on lvl 3, and maybe 1-2 hours on lvl 4. But when you hit lvl 5, and you have say a skill that is going to take 50 days, yes there are several like that Dread to 5 comes to mind it will save you 5-10 days. So you see a much bigger bang for your buck in the advanced skills dept then you get in the not so advanced skills. At least thats my take.

They are probably referring to the real time benefit rather than the percentage benefit.

Percentage wise, if you have implants the benefit will be the same for all levels.

However in real time terms, the benefit has the biggest impact at level 5 only.

As a new character you are probably training x1 - x5 skills only, so the time to get to level 4 for any skill is mostly just on a day to a couple of days.

However, to get to level 4 only take 20% of the training time for the skill. Level 5 takes 80% of the time.

So if you have implants that reduce a level 1 skill to 4 minutes from 6 minutes that doesn't have much benefit. You are better off not training the skills needed to be able to put in higher quality implants because the training time just for that eats into the time you could be training other skills.

However, if by the time you get to training level 5, it drops a training time from 21 days to 19 days, that's a much bigger advantage.

The older you are, the higher the skill levels you'll be training and then implants have a bigger benefit.

So new players are often better served training skills to level 4 and moving on and only thinking about a few to take to level 5. After they've done that, implants will have a useful impact.

My point is also for you. Do you think people just train these level 1 skills save the few minutes then not train any more skills? Those minutes saved over 50 days of level 1 skills will add up to be the exact same amount saved for that Dread LVL V train.

No I agree with that, but that is besides the point. I am not advocating that you need +5 implants.

My point is simply implants have the exact same benefit on short training skills as they do on skills that a long time to train.

Multiple people have already posted that can't grasp the concept. Comments like "saving those few minutes isn't a big deal" is exactly the fallacy I wanted to point out. Those few minutes, over a long period will add up to the same amount of savings as you knock off of a long train.

How can they possibly be different?

Except it is the same absolute time wise assuming you train the same amount,
You are falling for the fallacy yourself.

For the sake of simple numbers. A lvl 4 skill takes 100 hours. A lvl 5 skill 1000 hours. And the implant saves you 10%.
A lvl 4 is now 90 hours and a lvl 5 900 hours.
But..... If you train 10 level 4 skills, that then makes it 900 hours.

Which was the Ops point. That unless you leave your skill training queue empty, it is the same absolute saving also. And since there is diminishing returns the higher you train your skills, the newbie actually gets vastly more effect from implants since it speeds up all those lvl 1-4's they need to train to get all the standard skills going.

Implants raise your attributes which affect skill time training which helps you train skill faster soo.....

Obviously the time shaved off a skill from 0 to level 1 will be much less than a skill from 4 to 5...

For instance before I remapped and when I had +2 implants surgical strike V would of taken 21 days, after my remap and +4 implants it would only take 15.

Of course it is. But that is apples and oranges.

You will have to train more level 1 skills for it to take the same total training as the one train from 4-5. But once you train those lvl 1 skills and compare it to the level 5 train, you will save the exact same % and the exact same amount of absolute time.

Lets just agree that you save the same number of minutes, assuming the skills have the same primary and secondary attributes that is just obvious.

The FALLACY is thinking saving training time really makes any difference long term as opposed to just being a convenience.

You are not playing a "lets see who can level faster game".

Examples of why thinking faster training really makes a huge difference is a fallacy:
- many many characters in game are trained till they can do one thing well (drop a cyno, fly a DST, manage 5 PI planets) and then training is stopped
- if you really want a high SP toon with particular skills the fastest way to achieve it is grinding the ISK (or cashing in PLEX) and buying a trained toon from the character bazaar
- many new people end up training there characters to fly ships they do not have the knowledge yet to fly well, racing to qualify for a battleship and then losing it in the second mission because they do not understand rats is not effective use of resources
- you can end up wasting countless hours playing around with skill queues on evemon etc when you could be playing the game
- if people find out you fly with shiney implants before you can PvP well you will become a target as people actually collect shiney pod killmails
- as often as not stuff you train up for early is never used later anyway as you suddenly decide mining sucks or you are better off using Red Frog or you prefer a low sec life of crime to trade and industry anyway
- it takes over 20 years to train all skills to V so no one can ever "win" the "SP race".

More importantly getting sucked in to obsessing over SP is a trap. Go and play the game. If you have found or can afford good implants use them, if not do not lose any sleep over it.