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Can we get the option to remap our skill points?

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#101 - 2014-03-13 20:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly. So he's spent 110 days reaching the point where he can fly a golem. He spends another 90 days training up all the skills necessary to fly it "really well".

To him, the Golem sucks. Having had no 100% accurate way to determine if flying a golem is something he would enjoy, because he's told to "make a plan", he made one and it turned out to be something he didn't enjoy.

Now he's stuck with a character in a game he spent 200 days working towards something he doesn't enjoy. He knows there's a possibility that he could be enjoying another aspect of the game that takes 200 days to enter, but he can't. He's screwed.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
Chad Ramsbottom
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2014-03-13 20:43:53 UTC
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
I've been an advocate for a very limited type of skill reset since I started playing EVE and wasted a bunch of time training mining skills.


Sven Viko VIkolander wrote:
So I vote "c" with a pretty please added in.


Weird, the person who didn't plan ahead wants to change the game to fix their mistakes? I'm so shocked

mfw your bottom
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#103 - 2014-03-13 20:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly.
He could find out by getting any other Ravenkind.

With one (very mild) exception, there is nothing in the game that requires a ton of SP that can't be explored using next to no SP at all. Putting more SP into it just makes it the same thing, but with more SP put into it — the core usage patter or gameplay doesn't change. The mild exception is capships, since they require at least some kind of “teamwork” (that can be done on your own) but they're still just ships that use the same mechanics as every other ship in the game.

The mistake people make is that they think they have to train a ton of stuff to try an activity out. They don't. That's just a silly myth born out of the same ignorance that gave birth to the “must train to V to be effective” idiocy.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#104 - 2014-03-13 20:47:37 UTC
Did not read all the replies, but as a 10 year vet, who never used mplants (yes I know, bit I die too much so its not worth it) I would love to take all my 120m sp's and dump them into being evern more combat ready then everyone else...

Sheesh, this idea is beyond illogical and idiotic its not even funny.

As was stated before, I can not suddenly go 'gee all the skills I have at running and working on pc's i'd like to have that shifted over so I can work on and understand cars' Why should I be able to do so in a game?

As for the remaps, we are programed with the attributes to be changed, due to the cloning process, out brains are wired differently then the subservient non immortals. Hell we learn skills matix style by just implanting them. Messing with attributes is just rewiring your head, messing with skills is like messing with memories... is VERY messy. So basically..

HELL NO! If this happens I will unsub my accounts.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#105 - 2014-03-13 20:51:38 UTC
CCP please buff bittervets for me, pretty please. It will definitely only have a positive impact upon the game without any negative consequences, and will buff small gang PvP, improve fun and innovative fleet combat, introduce more emergent gameplay, add to game content, help newbies, spike online numbers, and kill WoW. I am definitely sure this idea has never ever been proposed before, and bittervets have needed this buff for the longest time so pleeeeease do it for me because I need it.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#106 - 2014-03-13 20:53:44 UTC
Malrikk wrote:
Tippia wrote:
No. If you want to do something else, just train it.

Alternatively, just ask them to remove skills entirely since that's effectively what you're suggesting.




It's completely optional, so how does it hurt your gameplay?

And why would I ask them to remove skills outright? Just because I don't enjoy mining, doesn't mean other people don't enjoy it.


This is EVE. Nobody cares if they are having fun. They just want to know that you aren't.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#107 - 2014-03-13 20:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Divine Entervention wrote:

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem....So he's spent 110 days reaching the point where he can fly a golem. He spends another 90 days training up all the skills necessary to fly it "really well".

To him, the Golem sucks. Having had no 100% accurate way to determine if flying a golem is something he would enjoy, because he's told to "make a plan", he made one and it turned out to be something he didn't enjoy.

Now he's stuck with a character in a game he spent 200 days working towards something he doesn't enjoy.

Or, and bear with me on this one because it's a hard concept, they train up basic core skills that allow them to fly the T1 ships he's interested in, something that he'll have to do anyway. Before the new player spends 200 days training for a T2 battleship, he gets into a very modestly skilled raven. He sees that he doesn't like the Raven, the precursor to the Golem, and realizes he probably wouldn't like the Golem and moves on with his life.

Which brings me to my earlier point:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Fundamentally, it wouldn't change all that much. In the long run all it would do is encourage bad decision making habits in newer players.

No one should one day decide to fly a Golem (or any other SP intensive ship) without having a good idea of what it does and how it does it from it's T1 precursor.

*Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal.
SomethingIs InMyButt
Levy Guards
Pandemic Horde
#108 - 2014-03-13 20:57:03 UTC
TippiaAll you do is remap for Int/mem and fill your queue with science skills that will train at a fixed 2700 SP/h (or 23,652,000 SP per year) that you then put into whatever you want.
Bump it up to, say, 80% with an absolute minimum loss of 30M and you might approach something that would actually make it at least [i wrote:
remotely[/i] punishing to use.

So, you want us to train for a year and a half with multibillion isk implantsbefore we satisfy the bare minimum of having the pleasure of having our sp wiped off our butts???
I cant even think of how much is wrong with this.
A) this is supposed to be noob friendly.
B) thirty million sp doesn't make you a noob
C) go troll somewhere else. You're not wanted here.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#109 - 2014-03-13 20:58:08 UTC  |  Edited by: masternerdguy
Picard said it better than I ever could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGfWrJR5Ck

This is a bad idea. It is going to break so much stuff and it reeks of entitlement. People should live with their skill training "mistakes" like everything else in this game.

Petrus Blackshell wrote:
CCP please buff bittervets for me, pretty please. It will definitely only have a positive impact upon the game without any negative consequences, and will buff small gang PvP, improve fun and innovative fleet combat, introduce more emergent gameplay, add to game content, help newbies, spike online numbers, and kill WoW. I am definitely sure this idea has never ever been proposed before, and bittervets have needed this buff for the longest time so pleeeeease do it for me because I need it.


While we're buffing bitter vets, let's make sure we can do skill remaps instantly so that we can remap during fleets on the FC's order. For balance.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#110 - 2014-03-13 21:07:31 UTC
SomethingIs InMyButt wrote:
TippiaAll you do is remap for Int/mem and fill your queue with science skills that will train at a fixed 2700 SP/h (or 23,652,000 SP per year) that you then put into whatever you want.
Bump it up to, say, 80% with an absolute minimum loss of 30M and you might approach something that would actually make it at least [i wrote:
remotely[/i] punishing to use.

So, you want us to train for a year and a half with multibillion isk implantsbefore we satisfy the bare minimum of having the pleasure of having our sp wiped off our butts???
I cant even think of how much is wrong with this.
A) this is supposed to be noob friendly.
B) thirty million sp doesn't make you a noob
C) go troll somewhere else. You're not wanted here.

Dat quote mangle.

I am fairly sure Tippia was documenting an obvious case of abuse that would occur as a result of this change, in the same as easy-as-cake FW complexes are "noob friendly" leading to gross abuse by vets using skill-less alts to make boatloads of ISK risk-free, investment-free and effort-free.

masternerdguy wrote:

While we're buffing bitter vets, let's make sure we can do skill remaps instantly so that we can remap during fleets on the FC's order. For balance.

Oh snap! Combine it with some mobile depots and just think of the super awesome emergent pro solo gang small fleet awesome high skill leet pvp it would lead to!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#111 - 2014-03-13 21:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Divine Entervention wrote:
This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly. So he's spent 110 days reaching the point where he can fly a golem. He spends another 90 days training up all the skills necessary to fly it "really well".

To him, the Golem sucks. Having had no 100% accurate way to determine if flying a golem is something he would enjoy, because he's told to "make a plan", he made one and it turned out to be something he didn't enjoy.

Now he's stuck with a character in a game he spent 200 days working towards something he doesn't enjoy. He knows there's a possibility that he could be enjoying another aspect of the game that takes 200 days to enter, but he can't. He's screwed.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.


Wrong. By training for the Golem, he has opened up a wide variety of future training options he may enjoy more. For example...


  • He has advanced weapon upgrades 5, meaning that he can fit lots of cool pro fittings that others can't.
  • He has caldari battleship 5 which puts him close to the Widow and over spec for training into a capital ship.
  • He has caldari battleship 5! That means he gets maximum bonuses on the Raven, Rokh, and Scorpion!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#112 - 2014-03-13 21:14:20 UTC
SomethingIs InMyButt wrote:
So, you want us to train for a year and a half with multibillion isk implantsbefore we satisfy the bare minimum of having the pleasure of having our sp wiped off our butts?
No. What gave you that idea?

Quote:
I cant even think of how much is wrong with this.
Maybe you should try, because it's not actually very hard: everything you just said was wrong. It can't be any more than that.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#113 - 2014-03-13 21:14:42 UTC
Malrikk wrote:
I started playing Eve a long time ago on and off, as my understanding of the game has grown my desires in-game have changed.

My skills are a cluster of clutter from mining to a plethora of various random skills. For instance mining, it was one of the first things I trained and have regretted it ever since. I would love to be able to put those skill points into something else.

I propose a skill remap, possibly a one year timer on it, and it would cost roughly 10% of your skill points as the remap is rather dangerous and memory loss has been known to happen. I believe this would balance out the remap and only the most desperate like myself would use it. Eve Online is a complicated game, and brutal on the newbies, this would go a long way to help some of us out who made a lot of bad decisions early on.


No, deal with the consequences of your choices.
Chad Ramsbottom
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2014-03-13 21:24:08 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Malrikk wrote:
I started playing Eve a long time ago on and off, as my understanding of the game has grown my desires in-game have changed.

My skills are a cluster of clutter from mining to a plethora of various random skills. For instance mining, it was one of the first things I trained and have regretted it ever since. I would love to be able to put those skill points into something else.

I propose a skill remap, possibly a one year timer on it, and it would cost roughly 10% of your skill points as the remap is rather dangerous and memory loss has been known to happen. I believe this would balance out the remap and only the most desperate like myself would use it. Eve Online is a complicated game, and brutal on the newbies, this would go a long way to help some of us out who made a lot of bad decisions early on.


No, deal with the consequences of your choices.


But that requires personal responsibility

mfw your bottom
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#115 - 2014-03-13 21:36:09 UTC
As long as we're nerfing personal responsibility, can we remove CONCORD and ban scamming?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Riyria Twinpeaks
Perkone
Caldari State
#116 - 2014-03-13 21:57:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Riyria Twinpeaks
Divine Entervention wrote:
[golem example]


I think of the 200 days skilled, the minority of the time would be spent for skills specific for only the golem.
You'd have tons of missile support skills, and fitting skills, and all that stuff, which you can use for other missile ships and largely for other ships in general, too.

If you don't enjoy using missiles, going for a golem was a mistake to begin with.

And before you say I'm getting too hung up on the golem example: I think it's like that with most other ships as well.

I'm not sure about capital ships there, but they seem to be take such a long time to train and to be actually useful you need to be working together with people, that I'm sure you'll be able to experience flying together with them long before you commit to capital-exclusive skilling.
You'll be flying long enough to have a better grasp of the game and will be able to estimate how the gameplay is. You can get an impression of that stuff by watching videos, too.

I was watching some videos about playing with carriers, for example, which gave me an idea.
Although I'm sure with playing longer and trying out logistic ships, and with experiencing how it is playing in larger and slower ships like battleships, I'll get an even better idea how it might be to fly those.

So: Most of the skills you'll get when training for something specific will be usable for similar ships and playstyles as well. That means you don't lose that much if you, despite informing yourself, make a wrong decision.
Unless you notice you don't even like the general style of play you were going for. That's your own fault then because there seem to be always smaller and easier to train for alternatives for similar playstyles, so that you can check whether the general direction you're taking is the right one.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#117 - 2014-03-13 22:05:05 UTC
I think the OP wants EvE to be like wow skill trees, if they even exist anymore its been dumbed down so much.
Aih-Li Tahn
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2014-03-13 22:07:23 UTC
this woud be great! i stoped mining because of being impossible with bumps and ganks... with all that its no wonder market is going crazy. useing mining sp for something else like my freighter so i can get some use out of all of it is good

+1
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#119 - 2014-03-13 22:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
[quote=Divine Entervention]This game has no "try before you buy" regarding ships.

Someone may choose to want to fly a Golem. Why a golem? I don't know, this is just an example. Maybe whoever the guy is decided that a golem looked like it would be fun to fly. So he's spent 110 days reaching the point where he can fly a golem. He spends another 90 days training up all the skills necessary to fly it "really well".

To him, the Golem sucks. Having had no 100% accurate way to determine if flying a golem is something he would enjoy, because he's told to "make a plan", he made one and it turned out to be something he didn't enjoy.

Now he's stuck with a character in a game he spent 200 days working towards something he doesn't enjoy. He knows there's a possibility that he could be enjoying another aspect of the game that takes 200 days to enter, but he can't. He's screwed.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal./quote]

1.) The pilot can have a fairly decent idea on what flying the golem entails much, much, much earlier than 110 days into the training plan.
--- Gain experience in Shield BS's.
--- Gain experience with torps...
--- Gain experience with specific PvP / PvE activities they hope to utilize the Golem with.

You don't wait 100 days and then suddenly try these things out. You start doing them LONG before reaching such "elite" skill level.

2.) Go to the Test server. Participate in mass tests and gain XP to spend there. This allows you to try a out almost any ship in the game, doing almost any activity in the game.

3.) Let's review your example more clearly: Someone spent 200 days training up to be the perfect Golem Pilot. Then they got bored of missions, which they previously enjoyed doing. Now they have a bunch of isk and want to try flying an Aeon, and realize that an Aeon pilot has very few overlapping skills. What is more, they realize that the training plan to get into that supercarrier is about 200 days, and wish they could instead remap all of their skillpoints so they don't have to wait.

I'm sorry, I'm not ok with your instatraining into a new field. You already benefited from the skills you previously trained. You can continue to benefit from the skills you still have. And you can train up new skills at the same rate as everyone else to experience a new aspect of the game.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2014-03-13 23:05:47 UTC
This sure would simplify training. Remap into just to two attributes and get max implants for just those two and then train just the skills that need those two for a year, remap the skills, rinse and repeat.

TBH if you have an old toon why not just sell it on the bazaar and buy yourself one with more appropriate skills. Depending on your old toon you may even turn a profit on the deal.