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PI Taxes?

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Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#41 - 2011-11-29 21:25:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
Zagdul wrote:
it's 170%

it's off.

The complaint is valid.


It is not 170%. It's 17%. But, they did update the base price based on what things currently actually sell for. For T1 items like coolant and consumer electronics they charge you 17% of 9000 ISK, so 1,530 ISK per unit.

Derath Ellecon wrote:
So basically what everyone missed was not the tax % but the re-valuation of the PI products in general.


Yup.
Endovior
PFU Consortium
#42 - 2011-11-29 21:26:17 UTC
Yep, people (including me) missed the fact that CCP changed the base prices that taxes were assessed against. It's not a misplaced decimal point, it's a reevaluation of the original prices.

Still possible to make a profit, but prices WILL spike, so you may as well sit on your goods for a bit, if you can.
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-11-29 21:27:29 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Zagam wrote:
Uh... Go to nullsec, or even lowsec, and get better yields AND better taxes when you put up your POCO.



Uh, not really the point.

Anyone with an Interbus CO right now is already in low, null or a WH.

The issue is what is wrong. The interbus CO says the tax rate is 17%

Exporting 8360 electrolytes (3176 volume) is now costing 710,000. when before it was more like 12,000.

Try and figure out the math on that.

Oh and its a 700mil investment for me to switch to POCO's as well.

They did two things....

1. they increased the tax rate.
2. they increased the nominal value. I haven't done PI recently, but how much will 8360 electrolytes sell for in Jita?
Shirley C
Guardians Incorporated
Cynosural Field Theory.
#44 - 2011-11-29 21:28:24 UTC
If you dont like the tax's in 0.0 space, just blow up the Customs office and anchor one of your own. Then you can charge other people tax's to use YOUR customs office :)
Zagam
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-11-29 21:28:33 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
it's 170%

it's off.

The complaint is valid.


It is not 170%. It's 17%. But, they did update the base price based on what things currently actually sell for. For T1 items like coolant and consumer electronics they charge you 17% of 9000 ISK, so 1,530 ISK per unit.

Derath Ellecon wrote:
So basically what everyone missed was not the tax % but the re-valuation of the PI products in general.


Yup.

I didn't know consumer electronics were in the first tier of PI...
CydoniusElfo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2011-11-29 21:29:12 UTC
Exported around 20k units of oxygen .. 1.14 m isk .. seemed excessive.
Kal'ar Rinah
Doomheim
#47 - 2011-11-29 21:29:45 UTC
Endovior wrote:
Yep, people (including me) missed the fact that CCP changed the base prices that taxes were assessed against. It's not a misplaced decimal point, it's a reevaluation of the original prices.

Still possible to make a profit, but prices WILL spike, so you may as well sit on your goods for a bit, if you can.


you seem to have missed the dev blog which states:

Quote:
The taxes you paid before can be translated into this new system, and that would equal 5% tax in a player owned customs office. So, if you set the tax to 5% you will pay the exact same as before.


there was nothing at all in any dev blog or patch notes about them changing the "value" of the items they were taxing

or at least nothing i see, have i missed something?
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#48 - 2011-11-29 21:30:44 UTC
Linka Romanov wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Just checked on exporting 5K precious metals. Before, cost around 2K or so... now? 617,000 isk.

C'mon Nullabor... you really can't have intended for this degree of absolute stupidity to taint the whole PCO thing. What the hell are you people thinking. You really screwed the pooch on this one. You should be embarassed if this is intended.


It's almost as if they want income from Player Owned Customs offices to be a viable income stream! Not much incentive to use a low tax POCO when the Concord COs in highsec charge a pittance in taxes. If you don't like the tax rate, consider setting up your own POCO or reaching an agreement with someone who has? Alternately, it's likely that PI goods will eventually price in the tax increase and your bottom line will be relatively unaffected.


It's like you're typing solely to put your own stupidity on display.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#49 - 2011-11-29 21:31:51 UTC
Zagam wrote:
I didn't know consumer electronics were in the first tier of PI...


Or whatever tier they call that... The tier where you combine two things has a base price of 9k ISK.
Linka Romanov
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2011-11-29 21:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Linka Romanov
Kal'ar Rinah wrote:


or at least nothing i see, have i missed something?


pmchem wrote:


Not an error. Refer to these links:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=33468&find=unread
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2011-11-29 21:32:58 UTC
Zagam wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Zagam wrote:
Uh... Go to nullsec, or even lowsec, and get better yields AND better taxes when you put up your POCO.



Uh, not really the point.

Anyone with an Interbus CO right now is already in low, null or a WH.

The issue is what is wrong. The interbus CO says the tax rate is 17%

Exporting 8360 electrolytes (3176 volume) is now costing 710,000. when before it was more like 12,000.

Try and figure out the math on that.

Oh and its a 700mil investment for me to switch to POCO's as well.

They did two things....

1. they increased the tax rate.
2. they increased the nominal value. I haven't done PI recently, but how much will 8360 electrolytes sell for in Jita?



yea thanks, your off by about 15minutes. We all cleared that up on page 2-3. But that's the danger of replying to a page one post late in the game.
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#52 - 2011-11-29 21:35:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
Kal'ar Rinah wrote:
there was nothing at all in any dev blog or patch notes about them changing the "value" of the items they were taxing

or at least nothing i see, have i missed something?


I missed it too, but they did put the new base prices in the wiki page: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

Quote:
Tax % is taken off the material's taxable value. ◦ This value is set by CCP and is based off the market values in November 2011
◦ Import is always half of export tax

• The taxable value are the same for all items in the same tier ◦ Advanced Commodities: 1,350,000.00 ISK
◦ Specialized Commodities: 70,000.00 ISK
◦ Refined Commodities: 9,000.00 ISK
◦ Basic commodities: 500.00 ISK
◦ Planet Resources: 5,00 ISK
Linka Romanov
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2011-11-29 21:36:05 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Linka Romanov wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Just checked on exporting 5K precious metals. Before, cost around 2K or so... now? 617,000 isk.

C'mon Nullabor... you really can't have intended for this degree of absolute stupidity to taint the whole PCO thing. What the hell are you people thinking. You really screwed the pooch on this one. You should be embarassed if this is intended.


It's almost as if they want income from Player Owned Customs offices to be a viable income stream! Not much incentive to use a low tax POCO when the Concord COs in highsec charge a pittance in taxes. If you don't like the tax rate, consider setting up your own POCO or reaching an agreement with someone who has? Alternately, it's likely that PI goods will eventually price in the tax increase and your bottom line will be relatively unaffected.


It's like you're typing solely to put your own stupidity on display.



Please, enlighten me as to why anyone would bother with deploying a POCO when the impact of taxes on their bottom line was somewhere in the neighborhood of one half of one percent of their profits? The new tax rates will get priced into PI goods, or competition from low sec/nullsec tax havens will put highsec PI'ers out of business. Either way anyone running a POCO now has an incentive to do so, and players have an incentive to use planets with POCOs to avoid exorbitant tax rates in empire.
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
#54 - 2011-11-29 21:38:18 UTC
Hehe, going back to blowing up Minmatar NPC haulers for trade goods.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2011-11-29 21:40:46 UTC
Confirming that the base prices were adjusted as well as default tax rates for Concord and Interbus customs offices. The latest and best information is available here:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#56 - 2011-11-29 21:41:48 UTC
Shirley C wrote:
If you dont like the tax's in 0.0 space, just blow up the Customs office and anchor one of your own. Then you can charge other people tax's to use YOUR customs office :)


Yeah, that will work. Until your office gets blown up by someone else. At one point you have to factor in the cost of replacing offices... prices will be going up, mark my words.
Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#57 - 2011-11-29 21:43:25 UTC
This really surprised me too. I was able to make around 500-800m a month in highsec doing production only but now it will be closer to 100-300 o_o Kind of not really worth it anymore. People say the prices might go up and that could be true, but if the prices go up all around that does not help the production only people. The ratios between buying and selling will still be the same probably D:

Ferox #1
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#58 - 2011-11-29 21:44:12 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Confirming that the base prices were adjusted as well as default tax rates for Concord and Interbus customs offices. The latest and best information is available here:

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice


Confirming it was a bad idea and you screwed up.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
#59 - 2011-11-29 21:46:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Desert Ice78
GhettoChick wrote:
stop bitching about the taxes and go around them by jet canning


Jesus H. Christ!!! Why are people who have no idea what they are talking about always the ones who insist on commenting??

You go find me the jet-can that can survive the re-entry genus and I'll listen to you.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
Kal'ar Rinah
Doomheim
#60 - 2011-11-29 21:47:14 UTC
Teamosil wrote:
Kal'ar Rinah wrote:
there was nothing at all in any dev blog or patch notes about them changing the "value" of the items they were taxing

or at least nothing i see, have i missed something?


I missed it too, but they did put the new base prices in the wiki page: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CustomsOffice

Quote:
Tax % is taken off the material's taxable value. ◦ This value is set by CCP and is based off the market values in November 2011
◦ Import is always half of export tax

• The taxable value are the same for all items in the same tier ◦ Advanced Commodities: 1,350,000.00 ISK
◦ Specialized Commodities: 70,000.00 ISK
◦ Refined Commodities: 9,000.00 ISK
◦ Basic commodities: 500.00 ISK
◦ Planet Resources: 5,00 ISK



thanks for the clarification, it makes sense now.. kind of, but i have to say that it is in direct odds with what the dev blogs on PI have stated and there was nothing in the patch notes at all about the price increase

you've got one dev blog that was advertised and pushed forward for attention that states that to keep costs as they were set the tax rate to 5% and then a wiki entry (which i haven't seen posted anywhere before this thread ) stating something completely different

some sort of dev comment would be greatly appreciated

and again i'm not saying that prices are too high it's just been managed and publicised very badly

also my main concern now is if they update the tax values on a monthly (or bi-monthly) basis then PI costs could very easily spiral out of control..