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Dilemma posed through BNI and EVE-UNI

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#61 - 2014-03-13 04:17:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Divine Entervention wrote:
There's no political ramifications. It's a closed room where the effects do not reverberate outward, only within. If it's possible for a new player to join those corporations and enjoy the game from day 1, then due to being within the same game, it should also be possible for new players to join politically active corporations and also experience the feeling of contribution, a more meaningful sense of contribution because of it's impact.

You do know BNI just made a move to sov null and have taken their first systems right?

They are very much playing the political game and if that's what you are looking for, then they offer everything from lowsec small gang pvp to capital fleets in sov systems.

That would be a good place to go.

Eve-Uni don't hold sov, but effectively hold EZA in Syndicate through their presence there and Uphallant in lowsec through their presence there. These aren't internal fight-fests, they regularly fight many different fleets and people, both on their roams out of Uphallant; and as a consequence of people knowing where they are.

There are lots of opportunities to explore different aspects of the game, but in most cases, to become a significant figure in politics in the game, it's going to take some bold moves in the meta game (where character skillpoints don't matter) or a long time grinding up through the ranks of a major Coalition. Hardly any players in the game have that experience, let alone new players.

You can want 100% access to every single aspect of the game from day 1, but it's not that sort of game. It will reward the amount of risk you are personally willing to accept and leave you in the lurch if you prefer a cotton wool blanket.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#62 - 2014-03-13 04:19:37 UTC
All the major league football players are super happy to encourage people to get into football, but they won't let me play on their team immediately, and they tell me to go play with some scrublord standardized entry level team. What gives?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Kaerf Arkanghel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-03-13 04:22:40 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.

So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?


what's wrong with you OP?

you seem to have this delusion that you are entitled to join any corp you want.

as a newbie myself, yes we are invaluable and important because of our potential and that's it, nothing more, nothing less.

i repeat POTENTIAL

but as long as that potential hasn't materialzed yet then we are worth nothing.

the key here is to show your worth to the corp you want to join and make them want you.


if you don't want to join corps whose business is to develop potential as fast as possible and/or you are not having fun in improving yourself by yourself alone then i think you are playing the wrong game.

Just Add Water
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#64 - 2014-03-13 04:28:15 UTC
Well thanks for clarifying.

Being new you see the huge scope of the game and realize it will be hard to find a place to make the game feel meaningful through your contribution.

Then you ask people for direction and are told that you can make an impact from the beginning, get involved right away, one of the positives of the game not being level based.

But you've more than explained how a new person isn't to expect to get involved in things that would be meaningful. I guess the only initial appeal of the game is suppose to be the novelty of flying space ships, and not the fact that game is advertised as a levelless FFA sandbox. That's suppose to hold you over for the year to reach the 15mil SP corporations so you can begin experiencing impact game play has on a "single shard" with player controlled politics and territory.

EVE-U and BNI are essentially day care.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#65 - 2014-03-13 04:33:49 UTC
I'm beginning to suspect that the OP isn't here to play Eve at all, he's here to play the forums instead. Virtually every post is designed to infuriate or inflame others.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#66 - 2014-03-13 04:34:44 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
I'm beginning to suspect that the OP isn't here to play Eve at all, he's here to play the forums instead. Virtually every post is designed to infuriate or inflame others.



Don't rate? Depreciate!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaerf Arkanghel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2014-03-13 04:35:20 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Well thanks for clarifying.

Being new you see the huge scope of the game and realize it will be hard to find a place to make the game feel meaningful through your contribution.

Then you ask people for direction and are told that you can make an impact from the beginning, get involved right away, one of the positives of the game not being level based.

But you've more than explained how a new person isn't to expect to get involved in things that would be meaningful. I guess the only initial appeal of the game is suppose to be the novelty of flying space ships, and not the fact that game is advertised as a levelless FFA sandbox. That's suppose to hold you over for the year to reach the 15mil SP corporations so you can begin experiencing impact game play has on a "single shard" with player controlled politics and territory.

EVE-U and BNI are essentially day care.


lol, im a 2M SP newb. i want to FW. I searched for an FW corp. I found one. I joined. FWing most of my time here in Eve and im enjoying it.

Just Add Water
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#68 - 2014-03-13 04:35:44 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
But you've more than explained how a new person isn't to expect to get involved in things that would be meaningful.
Give up the expectation and just do it.

New Eden is diverse with all sorts of people with an infinite combination of views about the game. Go find people with a similar view and goals and join them.

It's just not up to others to do that work for you. If you want to get ahead, be prepared to do the work yourself.
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#69 - 2014-03-13 04:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Miriya Zakalwe
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.

So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

You seem to be looking for a one word answer which sums up the opinion of the entire community, although do you not realise that this is a silly and naive way of thinking? Just like in real life many people who play eve will give you different answers and have differing opinions.

Also you didn't answer the previous question I asked in my last post. What exactly are you looking for?

Don't bother. Shortly after I posted my little wall of text I realized who OP was, and regretted posting. Look through his posting history. It's nothing but "I'm supposedly a newbie, but act as a bittervet, I hate this game, and I hate you all". That's Divine Entervention for you.


Even better, check his killboard and it will rapidly become apparent what he actually is.

Seriously, Divine: why do you keep pretending to be a noob in these troll threads of yours? Or if you are a noob, why not post with your main instead of your FW plexing bot alt?
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#70 - 2014-03-13 04:48:01 UTC
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
So half say being a noob sucks and due to some rite of passage, you're not to expect to have fun for years. The other half is saying that even a noob can contribute and experience the greatness eve has to offer.

So which is it? How am I, a new player, suppose to value my time spent in EVE if my time is so inconsequential that the majority of people in this game don't want the company of new players?

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

You seem to be looking for a one word answer which sums up the opinion of the entire community, although do you not realise that this is a silly and naive way of thinking? Just like in real life many people who play eve will give you different answers and have differing opinions.

Also you didn't answer the previous question I asked in my last post. What exactly are you looking for?

Don't bother. Shortly after I posted my little wall of text I realized who OP was, and regretted posting. Look through his posting history. It's nothing but "I'm supposedly a newbie, but act as a bittervet, I hate this game, and I hate you all". That's Divine Entervention for you.


Even better, check his killboard and it will rapidly become apparent what he actually is.

Seriously, Divine: why do you keep pretending to be a noob in these troll threads of yours? Or if you are a noob, why not post with your main instead of your FW plexing bot alt?


Well I am a noob. I did alot of farming in FW because I was informed of how it was incredibly lucrative, which it was. Like I would take a completely unfitted merlin, park it at novice, small, medium, and even large defensive plexes and just rake in the LP. I tried doing it a few times with fitted ships, and it was either incredibly boring with nothing happening, or I'd get jumped and lose anyways.

Cost efficiency. I could unfit merlin park at a complex and alt tab and watch netflix. If I were to make a suggestion, I'd say CCP implement a minimum ship value requirement to capture plexes. Seriously, I'm sure some people were really put off by my extremely minimal wager after they exploded me and noticed their ammunition cost more than their reward for killing me.

I don't do FW anymore.

I just happen to not care about dying. I'm immortal, and being a noob it's expected I'm going to die alot, so I embrace it.

Yet you "vets" get super caught up in how things "look". Like you don't want a new player in your corporation because he will die alot and that will "look" bad. Like, you'll become embarassed to have someone in your corporation who dies alot. Because you care. You actually care what people think of you in an online environment where the entire premise is false. So much that you'll exclude people from your group who you feel will add more ammunition to be used in the assault on your ego's castle.

You might care about dying or how others perceive you. I don't.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#71 - 2014-03-13 04:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Divine Entervention wrote:
Well I am a noob. I did alot of farming in FW because I was informed of how it was incredibly lucrative, which it was.


It's as valid a form of play as any other, so while farmers are given a lot of grief on the forum (they frustrate me at times too), there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as your style of play if it provides you what you want.

If others (including me at times) tear up about it, then your winning EvE on that point.

From all your (difficult) threads, it's fairly clear that you have aims other than being a farmer forever, so don't bother if someone knocks you for it. Laugh at them and hide the tissues.

Divine Entervention wrote:
Yet you "vets" get super caught up in how things "look". Like you don't want a new player in your corporation because he will die alot and that will "look" bad. Like, you'll become embarassed to have someone in your corporation who dies alot.


Ho hum. There is no collective "you vets".

There are many different views about the game and many, many vets that welcome new players.

If there was only 1 generic view of New Eden, the game would have died long ago.

It really would be helpful if you could get past the black and white, me and you view of the galaxy.
Kaerf Arkanghel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-03-13 04:57:59 UTC
that is your problem right there. you don't mind dying which is good but sure as fck you don't mind improving as well.

your perception of the game is screwed that's why you are screwed and bored.

i find plexing in it self is boring also, but ill let you in a little secret, FW is not all about plexing. Lol

Just Add Water
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#73 - 2014-03-13 05:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kaerf Arkanghel wrote:
your perception of the game is screwed that's why you are screwed and bored.
Somehow I don't think he's bored at all.

I suspect he views the forum as a form of pvp he can currently win. To be honest, he's been beating a lot of us here. He keeps ignoring opinions and frustrating everyone.

He's doing exactly what many of us do in game.

Assuming there is no underlying psychological issue, forum killboard wise, he's way ahead of anyone else here at the moment. He has slayed us dead several times in the last couple of weeks.

The only one's more powerful have been the Concord equivalent, the ISDs. They've shut, trimmed and warned their way through several topics and are still standing. They have infinite hitpoints and perfect guns.
Kaerf Arkanghel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-03-13 05:08:38 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Kaerf Arkanghel wrote:
your perception of the game is screwed that's why you are screwed and bored.
Somehow I don't think he isn't bored at all.

I suspect he views the forum as a form of pvp he can currently win. To be honest, he's been beating a lot of us here. He keeps ignoring opinions and frustrating everyone.

He's doing exactly what many of us do in game.

Assuming there is no underlying psychological issue, forum killboard wise, he's way ahead of anyone else here at the moment. He has slayed us dead several times in the last couple of weeks.

The only one's more powerful have been the Concord equivalent, the ISDs. They've shut, trimmed and warned their way through several topics and are still standing. They have infinite hitpoints and perfect guns.


dude, what have you done to me...

fck that, i won't admit that....

ill just walk away now....

Just Add Water
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#75 - 2014-03-13 05:11:50 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?


I can't take every newbie I chat with out to roams, throw them ISK, answer every question, etc. I chat with a lot of new players. Those groups can. Simple as that. The only difference youd notice if neither group exists is that nearly every new player quit in frustration after a few months without anyone to offer consistent advice.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#76 - 2014-03-13 05:20:24 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Well I am a noob. I did alot of farming in FW because I was informed of how it was incredibly lucrative, which it was.


It's as valid a form of play as any other, so while farmers are given a lot of grief on the forum (they frustrate me at times too), there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as your style of play if it provides you what you want.

If others (including me at times) tear up about it, then your winning EvE on that point.

From all your (difficult) threads, it's fairly clear that you have higher aims than being a farmer forever, so don't bother if someone knocks you for it. Laugh at them and hide the tissues.


It just really sucks because it's such an easily abusable system. Like I fully understand what the purpose is. I'm "suppose" to take a ship to a complex and fight whoever shows up. I'm given alot of LP because I'm providing content and risking myself against an unknown variable and it's expected I should die alot. But that doesn't happen. For every merlin I lost which was around 400k, I captured 3 sites averaging like 10 million, all while providing next to zero content.

I just couldn't do it anymore. I figured out how to be, and even was for a bit "that guy", but having been him, it's not what and who I want to be. Ultimately, I want to contribute to everyone's enjoyment, not just my own. Abusing FW LP farming, while entirely possible, should be avoided.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Exactly the same premise regarding people who choose to attack people in game to "harvest their tears". Being "that guy" makes you exactly that, "that guy".

I'm better than that. I'll make mistakes, sure. But upon learning them, I'll do my best to make sure I avoid it as much as possible.

A choice is a choice if it effects other people. Basically the entire premise of convincing new people to play eve is centered around creating people who you can potentially kill, rather than people who you can potentially ally and enjoy the game with together. The EvE veteran player base is incredibly selfish. Not only do they have a ton of knowledge through experience, they also want to limit the interactiveness new players can enjoy by shuffling them off to baby sitter corporations and boarding schools.
Kaerf Arkanghel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-03-13 05:30:51 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Well I am a noob. I did alot of farming in FW because I was informed of how it was incredibly lucrative, which it was.


It's as valid a form of play as any other, so while farmers are given a lot of grief on the forum (they frustrate me at times too), there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as your style of play if it provides you what you want.

If others (including me at times) tear up about it, then your winning EvE on that point.

From all your (difficult) threads, it's fairly clear that you have higher aims than being a farmer forever, so don't bother if someone knocks you for it. Laugh at them and hide the tissues.


It just really sucks because it's such an easily abusable system. Like I fully understand what the purpose is. I'm "suppose" to take a ship to a complex and fight whoever shows up. I'm given alot of LP because I'm providing content and risking myself against an unknown variable and it's expected I should die alot. But that doesn't happen. For every merlin I lost which was around 400k, I captured 3 sites averaging like 10 million, all while providing next to zero content.

I just couldn't do it anymore. I figured out how to be, and even was for a bit "that guy", but having been him, it's not what and who I want to be. Ultimately, I want to contribute to everyone's enjoyment, not just my own. Abusing FW LP farming, while entirely possible, should be avoided.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Exactly the same premise regarding people who choose to attack people in game to "harvest their tears". Being "that guy" makes you exactly that, "that guy".

I'm better than that. I'll make mistakes, sure. But upon learning them, I'll do my best to make sure I avoid it as much as possible.

A choice is a choice if it effects other people. Basically the entire premise of convincing new people to play eve is centered around creating people who you can potentially kill, rather than people who you can potentially ally and enjoy the game with together. The EvE veteran player base is incredibly selfish. Not only do they have a ton of knowledge through experience, they also want to limit the interactiveness new players can enjoy by shuffling them off to baby sitter corporations and boarding schools.


this is a lie.

the EvE veteran player base is incredibly helpful, even the people who just killed and podded me.

ive played rf, tera, LoL, DotA, and alot more, the veteran player base in those games are not only selfish but also rage fcks....

in this thread alone more than half of the vets that posted here helped you in some way or another.

Just Add Water
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#78 - 2014-03-13 05:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kaerf Arkanghel wrote:
dude, what have you done to me...

fck that, i won't admit that....

ill just walk away now....


Your QQ are showing.
Virriana Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2014-03-13 05:31:20 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
As a new player, there seems to be a large amount of veterans who steer us noobs towards joining these corporations.

It feels incredibly impersonal. Like your delegating the fostering of your potential community to a standardized social services department.

BNI and EVE-U being orphanages or boarding schools. You don't wish to deal with raising the little ones yourself so you have these institutions set up where you drop off new players and hope they transform into something you will want to harness later.

You want new players to stay, yet you don't want to invest the time personally when it comes to teaching and training. You just want to hand that responsibility off to BNI and EVE-U, make them do the hardwork so you can harvest the fields of their labor.

Why will the veterans of EVE argue that new players should stay, but then put forth no effort towards training up those new people, instead passing off that responsibility onto someone else? Why should new people want to take part in a community of people who as a whole demonstrate that they don't want to interact with them, instead just kicking and shuffling them to others?


Except that E-UNI is full of vets that will take you under their wing and teach you most of the stuff that you want to know. Often on a personal level if you need it. They invest mind-boggling amounts of time and resources to help you learn. They want to watch you become a pilot that people want in their corp. Corporations want you to do well in the game so you can become a useful asset to them in the future. And the fastest, most efficient way for you become an important asset is through E-UNI or BNI. They are offering the exact service you're telling us you want, and you're brushing them aside because they're a popular choice. Somehow because of that, they're suddenly not part of the community to you.

The only consistent difference between an E-UNI/BNI vet and the "community" vet you want to teach you things is the corp tag next to their name.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#80 - 2014-03-13 05:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Divine Entervention wrote:
It just really sucks because it's such an easily abusable system. Like I fully understand what the purpose is. I'm "suppose" to take a ship to a complex and fight whoever shows up. I'm given alot of LP because I'm providing content and risking myself against an unknown variable and it's expected I should die alot.

Even CCP have acknowledged in the past that the only limit to the abuse of any system is players inventiveness. Don't sweat it. Plexing isn't abuse. It's smart for many (but frustrating to those of us that like to shoot and be shot at).

I think I've written in response to you before that FW is not only about pvp. It's about at least 3 (4 really) things:

1. conflict leading to pvp
2. system control
3. FW specific pve in the form of missions
(4.) tears. lots of tears.

Plexing fits perfectly into point 2 and nothing to be ashamed of or embarassed about. Every pvper that tears up over plexing is a win for the farmers (and there are lots of threads, ideas and feature suggestions to remove farming, so it draws lots of tears).

So my view is nothing in the game sucks. It's all good no matter what it is. As long as you are having fun, then your winning. If not, then your losing (and usually someone else is winning, so it's all balanced).