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Why can't I train skills on more than one character?
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Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-09-11 01:39:47 UTC
Raendel wrote:
Quote:
Either way, this is not a solo game and you should need to rely on other players.


Speaking as an independent person, i really enjoy this little thing called "autonomy".

For instance, take mining.

Mining barges have crazy small cargo-holds considering their role. In order to effectively mine, you need a hauler. If I have someone haul for me, I'm limited by

1) Their trustworthiness (big deal on Eve)
2) How long they feel like hauling for

Assuming I can trust them, I'm limited by their preferences. Maybe they have dinner soon and have to go. Depending on other people for this lowers my efficiency. It also lowers my profit margin, as they will likely want to be paid as well.

If I join a Corp, I'm not only limited by those two factors, but also by Corp requirements (what they require from you as a player, if they're at war, etc).

In the early stages I much prefer to go it alone, and for this purpose training a couple of alts is the best choice to increase enjoyment and autonomy in the game. In the later stages, like for WH-farming or mining null-sec, then yes, Corps are useful.

Basically, "teamwork" is a heavy burden and very taxing unless you're in a good team.



Either way, even if you could train a hauler and a hulk on one account, you can still only use one character from that account. Once again, you need another account or a friend.
Cunane Jeran
#22 - 2011-09-11 01:43:57 UTC
Name me one MMO where you can essentially level two characters on the same account at the exact same time.
Raendel
#23 - 2011-09-11 02:01:49 UTC
Quote:
Either way, even if you could train a hauler and a hulk on one account, you can still only use one character from that account. Once again, you need another account or a friend.


The point you're "refuting" is not the point I was actually making.

Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, although I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#24 - 2011-09-11 02:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: KaarBaak
Riddikk Imahara wrote:
I can't be the first person to post about this, but can't seem to find another post on it.


Yup. Nobody realized this until you brought it up. Don't tell the bittervets, as they have enough to worry about with NEx store, CSM drama and new forums to complain about.

If you have a hole in your pilot roster, you can always just purchase a pre-trained pilot.

I always thought it'd be cool if you could "alt-clone" your pilot once per year. But I also think that any mechanic change that allows for simultaneous training has to be combined with the elimination of pilot sales.

Dum Spiro Spero
Kesshisan
#25 - 2011-09-11 05:24:55 UTC
Personally I would love for the ability to apply a PLEX to an account and let it train a 2nd account for 1 month. (Or apply 2 PLEX for both alts to be training for 1 month.) *note* When applying the PLEX this way you would NOT receive free game time.

This is effectively the same as having two accounts and paying for both of them via PLEX with just a little bit less hassle for the player.
Ulmagod
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2011-09-12 10:00:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ulmagod
Yes this question has been asked loads of times already.

From a CCP perspective, it would make no business sense to do, because it would reduce their income. I don't know what the exact ratio of accounts to players really is, but I've heard it is over 2:1, and while there are other reasons to dual box, a significant number would unsubscribe. However, I do not understand players who complain that this is a 'dubious business practice'. This is the way CCP have always done it, it was never concealed, players knew what they were doing when they signed up, or very quickly realised how important the skill queue is in this game and that there is no way of circumnavigating it - just as the OP has done.

Why are so many players in this thread not supporting the OP?

1. This topic has been debated a 100 times already with the same result and CCP haven't changed it.
2. This game is now 8 years old and the veterans have lived with this restriction. To change it now would create uproar, as they would perceive, that their dominate position, achieved at considerable cost while supporting CCP during the early stages, has been drastically eroded.
3. Everyone would be training characters to sell on the character bazaar and it would crash the prices of characters with such an influx.
4. It would devalue your view of your 'main'. Players have a considerable investment in the main character on each account. They become attached to that character, when the FotM ship changes with a rebalancing patch, you can't just switch to another character, you have to work your way through it and either cross train or adjust your fit and tactics to suit. This I think is a strength of Eve and it shows RL character in the players that do stick it out.

I do not agree with the comparison to WoW and other games. Sure in WoW you train one character at a time too, but the thing is you can train them at a much faster rate, thus it is feasible to switch between characters and train multiples to the top level. The true comparison is that it takes a considerable longer time to train an Eve character. But this leads to a couple of facts that underlines the strength of Eve:

1. Training is so slow, that effectively there is no top level in Eve. CCP can keep adding new skills in different areas, but they are added in parallel to the other skill sets and players can choose to train or ignore them. In WoW new skill sets (levels) are loaded on top of existing skills - Blizzard effectively ruins everybody's characters each upgrade and force them to 'relevel'
2. Games like WoW is all about levelling and improving your character. You level to 85 (or whatever), you run dungeons to get their versions of LPs to get a basic epic set, then you run raids to get better Epics, then more raids to get the top Epics. Then finally you have the best gear in the game and... then what?... You wait for the next upgrade. In Eve, you can subscribe each month and just log on to change your skill queue as necessary, if your aim is just to become 'Epic'ed out', that clearly is 'stupid'. The fact is, Eve has far more depth than just improving your character. The true Eve player, plays to enjoy the game, to achieve ingame objectives that he sets. Improving the character, while vital, is secondary from the game enjoyment.
Sellestiya
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-09-12 10:37:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sellestiya
Quote:
I do not understand players who complain that this is a 'dubious business practice'. This is the way CCP have always done it, it was never concealed, players knew what they were doing when they signed up, or very quickly realised how important the skill queue is in this game and that there is no way of circumnavigating it - just as the OP has done.


the underlined text in fact has no bearing on whether or not it's a "dubious" business practice.


Quote:
2. This game is now 8 years old and the veterans have lived with this restriction. To change it now would create uproar, as they would perceive, that their dominate position, achieved at considerable cost while supporting CCP during the early stages, has been drastically eroded.


who cares about the bittervets. they number, what, 30,000?

anyway the tears of the bittervets are more nutritious than newbietears, and much more tasty.

Quote:
3. Everyone would be training characters to sell on the character bazaar and it would crash the prices of characters with such an influx.


they already do that...

send yourself a buddy invite activate it at 19 bucks there's 51 days invest in some implants if you do it right by 51 days you can have a character with 5mil SP trained to fly exhumers or mine ice and pop them up on the bazaar there ya go 2 bil.

Quote:
4. It would devalue your view of your 'main'. Players have a considerable investment in the main character on each account. They become attached to that character, when the FotM ship changes with a rebalancing patch, you can't just switch to another character, you have to work your way through it and either cross train or adjust your fit and tactics to suit. This I think is a strength of Eve and it shows RL character in the players that do stick it out.


cross-training would take the same amount of time (indeed, even shorter due to core-skills) as starting over...

Quote:

The fact is, Eve has far more depth than just improving your character. The true Eve player, plays to enjoy the game, to achieve ingame objectives that he sets. Improving the character, while vital, is secondary from the game enjoyment.


the underlined text is not actually fact, but merely your own opinion and perspective.

you have no solid logic here guy.
foksieloy
Rockets ponies and rainbows
#28 - 2011-09-12 13:34:24 UTC
This thread again?

Disclaimer: I do not actually play this game, I just forum warrior.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#29 - 2011-09-12 14:10:37 UTC
Cunane Jeran wrote:
Name me one MMO where you can essentially level two characters on the same account at the exact same time.



This is all that needed to be said TBQFH.

How did you Veterans start?
Barbelo Valentinian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-09-12 21:38:38 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Cunane Jeran wrote:
Name me one MMO where you can essentially level two characters on the same account at the exact same time.



This is all that needed to be said TBQFH.


This. I've never understood this question.

I guess it's a psychological blind spot of some sort - maybe people don't consciously notice that they're only levelling the character they're playing with in every other MMO, and something about the offline learning system makes you think you should be able to offline learn more than one character at a time.
lordlotus
The Friendly Chap Inc
#31 - 2011-09-13 11:04:05 UTC
Most other MMORPGs rely on "schlog" : You have to be online to train, and you have to be ACTIVE to train, with EVE you train passively. IMHO this is worth spending the extra $$$, or ISK, to get. No other game could you actually log on for 5 minutes a day and still have your character's abilities grow. I actually have one of my alt's specifically training to fly a single, killer ship. I log on when EveHQ reminds me his rtaining queue has space on, and since I'm going for a lot of L5 skills, sometimes that's once a month. For 5 Minutes. If I did that with a WoW character... um... I'd end up with an older weenie? I run 3 accounts, all paid for.

If you want to train more than one char, pay for it.
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