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[Rubicon 1.3] Remote Sensor Dampeners and the Celestis

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Valterra Craven
#121 - 2014-03-12 13:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Anhenka wrote:


There are dozens of modules where meta 4 is equal in effectiveness to t2.


Correct.

Anhenka wrote:

In all likelihood, there will be a sweeping module rebalance that addresses all of these modules at the same time instead of patchwork altering one by one if that module class happens to come up as needing unrelated immediate changes like overall damp nerfs.


One can only hope. But if you are balancing something and see a problem it should be fixed then.

Anhenka wrote:

Changing one now would also pidgeonhole them into a format of how they would have to change all the other similar meta4/T2 equal modules, or risk coming back at a later patch and change damps again.


CCP is only pigeonholed by their own lack of imagination. They have shown in the past and present they aren't tied to any convention... see the worm missle bonus on galente ship trait... cuse that makes a lot of sense...

Anhenka wrote:

Stop sounding like a petulant child. You don't just slap a temporary patch on the issue if applying it is going to make things worse down the road. As you said, doing things right the first time is always a better option.


Stop sounding like an apologist. You can't also factually say that fixing this issue now will make things worse down the road. I've also said CCP never does the right thing the first time around, so none of this really matters now does it?
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#122 - 2014-03-12 15:22:15 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:

CCP is only pigeonholed by their own lack of imagination. They have shown in the past and present they aren't tied to any convention... see the worm missle bonus on galente ship trait... cuse that makes a lot of sense...

People who ***** about this drive me crazy. Alright, which of the three bonuses do you think should be on the Gallente skill? The shield resist bonus which is unique to Caldari and pirate ships (Loki and Broadsword aside)? The drone damage/HP bonus that literally increases damage/HP to 4x what it would be without skills? If they do that you've got a minimum requirement of a ship skill to V before you can even undock the damn thing. At least as is you can run a IV/IV setup and not be completely ****** because you have **** DPS.

Hell, isn't it bad enough that we have multiple skills in the drone skill section that are completely necessary before you fly drone boats? Drone Interfacing is a skill that literally doubles your damage output (no other weapon system has anything close). Drones is a skill that quintuples your DPS as it goes from 1 to 5. Now you want another ******* ******** skill that quadruples your damage? **** that stupid ****. I don't even care that I have all frigate skills to 5 so it wouldn't affect me, it's still a ******* ******** idea.

At least there's justification for missiles to be tied to Gallente ships, Roden used to be a missile based developer (see Ares, Eris pre-rebalance, Lachesis).
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2014-03-12 16:20:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Anhenka wrote:

Changing one now would also pidgeonhole them into a format of how they would have to change all the other similar meta4/T2 equal modules, or risk coming back at a later patch and change damps again.

Valterra Craven wrote:

CCP is only pigeonholed by their own lack of imagination. They have shown in the past and present they aren't tied to any convention... see the worm missle bonus on galente ship trait... cuse that makes a lot of sense...


Given that the Worm is a Gallente Caldari mix created by the Guristas... Yeah. It makes perfect sense.

Anhenka wrote:

Stop sounding like a petulant child. You don't just slap a temporary patch on the issue if applying it is going to make things worse down the road. As you said, doing things right the first time is always a better option.

Valterra Craven wrote:

Stop sounding like an apologist. You can't also factually say that fixing this issue now will make things worse down the road. I've also said CCP never does the right thing the first time around, so none of this really matters now does it?


Apparently not acting like everyone at CCP are simultaneously evil and incompetent makes me an apologist. Who knew?

I honestly don't say this often, but please unsubscribe. You're obviously playing a game in which the developers do nothing right, screw up everything, and ruined the game, leading you to post whiny rants on the forum about how terrible they are. So leave, you frothing at the mouth nut.
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#124 - 2014-03-12 17:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Anhenka wrote:
Deacon Abox wrote:
So why are the damps and damp ships nerfed and not an overall nerf to the relevant information links?What? That would have actually have killed two birds with one stone.Blink


Because that would nerf the other forms of ECM besides damps that those links can effect. Jamming ECM is weak overall, and TD's are situationally useful and entirely ineffective VS drone ships along with not having range bonuses on the t1 cruiser hull. Neither of those forms need nerfing as bad as the Celestis needs it.

Overall the combination of racial bonused crusier + racial ECM results in the celestis being far far more effective overall. It cannot be easily countered with ECCM, it's not situationally effective like TD's, and a single Celestis can easily shut down any single ship, up to and including locking a double Sebo Carrier down to under 50 Km lock range.

Underlined the funny part in your post.

One ecm boat can disable multiple ships. But I sense that you are whining because one Celestis applied all it's damps to your double sebo carrier and it's lock range went to less than 50km. Most of us in this game don't fly carriers in blobs it may surprise you to learn. And for those of us that don't do that a griffin or bb is much more a reliable irritant than a damp ship.

What this damp range nerfing does is put damps more often into falloff. So not only do we get a shittier ewar than ecm (preventing a lock at any distance > preventing a lock at some range) but now we also get to enjoy the chance component more often as well.

Anyway, my point still stands about links. Prevalent use of the dishonor link alt has gone nowhere with the changes to tech III command subsystems and persistent nigh unprobability or easy docking/jumping abilities. Links exaggerate the effects of every ewar (not "ecm" as you so tellingly call them all).

Rebalance team has made statements about reworking ecm so that it cannot completely disable combat actions on ships (especially under info links). If you get damped you have an answer, move closer, either subwarp or warp. If you get TD'd you move closer, put in longer range ammo, or change your vector victor. If you get painted you probably don't panic too much unless your entire tank is sig based, and even then you probably have speed tanking as well. If you get ecm'd you pretty much have to leave that thumb in your ass for 20 seconds, which often becomes 40 seconds . . . and since it's there and there's no such thing in the game you can forget "manual targeting" or something similar.

A link nerf would have allowed damp boats to retain some utility. And would have lessened the strength of boosted ecm, which would have been a good thing. Instead the hammer comes down once again on a second rate ewar. Made a lot of sense Roll

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Strom Crendraven
The H8teful Eight
#125 - 2014-03-13 10:35:17 UTC
Me beat with hammer! Why hammer no swing? Nerf ECM, nerf damps, nerf neuts, OP..OP..OP!!! Got a Proteus wasted the other day while neuted out and jammed to s**t, good on them, they had a smart fleet comp and we didn't.
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2014-03-13 12:08:51 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Deacon Abox wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
Ax Pym wrote:
You're probably making the Celestis (and even Gallente Recon) into a suicide ship. I trained a Destroyer skill to level 5. And I would gladly place an interdiction sphere. But I'm not suicide dampening, in this game, no. That's all I have to say, now.



You apparently don't realize just how insanely strong and long range a well fit Celestis backed up with information warefare links was. When deployed in bulk, they were rendering quite a few fleets completely useless by the simple fact that a Celestis could chill out at 100km and damp down a target to under 8% of their lock range. As in a max 250km lock range ship could then lock down to 20 KM. It was ridiculous.

So why are the damps and damp ships nerfed and not an overall nerf to the relevant information links?What? That would have actually have killed two birds with one stone.Blink


Because that would nerf the other forms of ECM besides damps that those links can effect. Jamming ECM is weak overall, and TD's are situationally useful and entirely ineffective VS drone ships along with not having range bonuses on the t1 cruiser hull. Neither of those forms need nerfing as bad as the Celestis needs it.

Overall the combination of racial bonused crusier + racial ECM results in the celestis being far far more effective overall. It cannot be easily countered with ECCM, it's not situationally effective like TD's, and a single Celestis can easily shut down any single ship, up to and including locking a double Sebo Carrier down to under 50 Km lock range.


If you cant figure out how to shut down a group of Celestis then maybe you need to talk to other pvp corporations. A well organized naga fleet can easily blap thru a Celestis fleet, Well fitted falcons can also greatly shut down mult celestis, well fitted HAC fleet, well fitted Assault frig gang. It depends on the players actual PVP skill, fittings, coordination, along with planning. For all those so called PVPer that F1 and Alt+F1 that are dying to a well organized Celestis fleet need to learn how to PVP better. Ive died to a griffin in an enyo. I didn't realize what that ship could really do in the hands of a properly skilled player. Instead of me complaining and screaming NERF. i looked for other options and fitting that could help me the next time i came across a pro PVP griffin pilot. All the changes are really effecting the game. some are good and needs to be done but alot are setting the game back IMO. Leave damps along and fix the Caldari Dread. <-worth investing your time
O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2014-03-13 12:11:45 UTC
O yea almost forgot. You can assist drones in this game. Even if you are damp but the player that you assisted drones to isnt. the drones will still fire off of his targeting system. (as long as the enemy is within the drones range(Im talking about sentries))
Valterra Craven
#128 - 2014-03-13 12:38:48 UTC
Goldensaver wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:

CCP is only pigeonholed by their own lack of imagination. They have shown in the past and present they aren't tied to any convention... see the worm missle bonus on galente ship trait... cuse that makes a lot of sense...

People who ***** about this drive me crazy. Alright, which of the three bonuses do you think should be on the Gallente skill? The shield resist bonus which is unique to Caldari and pirate ships (Loki and Broadsword aside)? The drone damage/HP bonus that literally increases damage/HP to 4x what it would be without skills? If they do that you've got a minimum requirement of a ship skill to V before you can even undock the damn thing. At least as is you can run a IV/IV setup and not be completely ****** because you have **** DPS.

Hell, isn't it bad enough that we have multiple skills in the drone skill section that are completely necessary before you fly drone boats? Drone Interfacing is a skill that literally doubles your damage output (no other weapon system has anything close). Drones is a skill that quintuples your DPS as it goes from 1 to 5. Now you want another ******* ******** skill that quadruples your damage? **** that stupid ****. I don't even care that I have all frigate skills to 5 so it wouldn't affect me, it's still a ******* ******** idea.

At least there's justification for missiles to be tied to Gallente ships, Roden used to be a missile based developer (see Ares, Eris pre-rebalance, Lachesis).


Frigate 5 is six days. You are flying a super expensive ship relative to the cost of other frigates. Kinda already should be a min requirement to be lvl 5 before you undock.
Valterra Craven
#129 - 2014-03-13 12:43:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Valterra Craven
Anhenka wrote:


I honestly don't say this often, but please unsubscribe. You're obviously playing a game in which the developers do nothing right, screw up everything, and ruined the game, leading you to post whiny rants on the forum about how terrible they are. So leave, you frothing at the mouth nut.


No, while I may hate ALOT of the choices CCP makes, they are still the lesser of evils... I mean have you played the steaming pile of crap that LOTRO is? There are very few games these days that aren't microtransaction heavy, Eve is one of them.

Eve is the only game I know that has the right mix:
1. One Universe
2. Unlimited storage (I'm a hoarder)
3. I dont have to pay extra money for features I want (like storage etc)
4. Expansions are free.

The devs could literally make every other decision from there that I would disagree with and I'd still play. I've been here a long long time. You act like I'm James315 or something and comment on almost every fricking post. I only comment on posts where I hope to be at least semi constructive. I've offered several ideas to make this game better. (mostly in the little things threads) Please, be my guest and actually do some research on my post history before you start talking out of you a-hole again.
Lord Booya
Doomheim
#130 - 2014-03-24 00:51:22 UTC
wheres the ecm drone nerf? The most op mod in game and noone is looking at it yet? why?
Max Essen
Bison Industrial Inc
#131 - 2014-03-31 21:31:35 UTC
Just another nerf to Gallente .... time to store these ships, again