EVE General Discussion

'Hey thanks for paying us each month for your subscription wich we still have unlike most mmorpgs these days , we would however like you to donate us more cash if you want anything new besides some modifications left and right on the game as it currently is , thank you.'


Yup ,that'll work out splendid ....

it's not about game mechanic, balancing and so on. its about art, artwork, eye-candy, content (clothes, weapon-design, mission design, story telling) and stuff like this.

ccp may ask: "hey, for the next project, we would like to rework the hull-design or offer you more clothes for your char. or maybe should we work on station interior first?"

i can't see any problem with this.

and again: this should NOT replace the current development process and cycle. its an opportunity to support ccp with nice-to-have, low priority projects. and thats good for everyone. if you'll participate or not.

yeah. of course. you're the only one with perspective.

go and have a look at: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals. it works. and there are people who pay for something whitch even does not exist in a useable version. 40 mio dollar are enough to pay 16 developer 10 years 250k each.

there are two ways to get a faster development for eve. first, everyone pays more each month. some players can't, some players won't do that. but risking your playerbase for this would be stupid. on the other hand, there are some guys who love this game so much that they are willing to spend some more for development. especially if they know what for. there's no risk, just opportunity for everyone.

I estimate I have spent $1000 on Eve so far across all my accounts. Why do I need to spend more again?

CCP does not lack for funding. The number of subscriptions are increasing, PLEX sales are going up, and they're piloting ship skins to get even more delicious cash from customers (which I strongly suspect will be very successful). Considering CCP has the spare money to throw on development for secondary products (Valkyrie, WoD, and to some degree, DUST 514), I would say they're in a pretty good spot.

Believe it or not, in software development, "throw more money at it" is not a reasonable solution for getting stuff done. Software developers are not highway construction workers. You can't double your workforce and expect productivity to double. In fact, doubling your workforce might cause overall productivity to go down, since it is very disruptive to have a lot of people who don't know how anything in the system works.

Before proposing massive changes to CCP's development process, you should educate yourself on how it currently works (best guess at the methodology based on available resources).



Oh, really? So... SC will have:

• One unsharded universe in which your actions can impact anyone and everyone else? No, it will have multiple servers, with the potential of "private" servers
• Almost no rules on what player interaction is appropriate, setting emergent content free? No, they will have individual server moderation and rules.
• Battles featuring thousands and thousands of people? No. As far as I've seen the best you'll get is an instanced organized 16 vs 16 or so fight.
• Unbound PvP? No. Restricted "PvP zones". Have fun with that.
• Content requiring tens or hundreds of people working together? No. NPCs stand in where players lack.
• Realistic development goals? Absolutely not. Star Citizen will cut corners in entirely new and interesting ways, and I'm curious to see what they are.
• An extensive huge industry system? Nope. Just no.
• A free player-controlled economy? No. The economy is explicitly not player controlled.

Eve has all these things.

So what will it have?

• Painted spaceships.
• First person combat sim in space which will likely be nigh-unplayable in PvP. Try Freespace 2 multiplayer sometime, or flying a fighter in Planetside 2.
• First person ground combat sim on a smaller budget than simplified non-simulator shooters like Half-Life 2. Don't expect a simulator, expect a rudimentary shooter.
• Painted spaceships.
• DLC and expansion packs.
• Painted spaceships.

Stop comparing SC to Eve. The only thing they have in common is they both have spaceships in their games. You don't see people comparing WoW to Skyrim because they both have swords and orcs involved. Even if SC fulfills all its starry-eyed promises and doesn't cause an outrage of heartbreak and buyer's remorse (spoiler: it won't), Eve still has nothing to fear because it is based on fundamentally different underlying concepts.

If you don't feel that what you already pay for your subscription is enough, you can buy as many PLEX as you want. If you have too many PLEX or feel guilty about accepting imaginary assets for the money that you have paid for development, you can give them to me and I promise I will put them to good use developing player-generated content for the benefit of the community.

must be a slogan ... nobody says you have to.



they do not need money? you know this exactly from which source?

the prices go up and down for plex as for everything on the market. so what? and whats the different between spending money for customization and spending money for development (and perhaps get some unique stuff as "thanks") ?



thats what every company is doing if they wouldn't like to go down in case their one and only product fails.



i never said so. but the more developer you have, the more projects you can do in parallel (if possible). game designer mostly can do stuff without a programmer. there are a lot of work you can do independently if you have the ressources. the speedup is not linear but everyone knows that.



thats their development model? nice, but it has nothing to do with the topic. and i never want to chance the development process.

as far as i know, every company could get use of more money. ccp too, for sure. its fact, that you can just do the stuff you've enough people for. of course this doesn't imply the converse argument, some guys use to argue!

All of this is moot, inlight of one incontrovertible and undeniable fact.

Giving players control, however indirect, of development is a recipe for disaster.

Professional people are hired and make a living developing games, for very real reasons.

If SC did not require external funding, you think the devs wouldnt prefer to work in peace without a constant roarnof entitked player demands?

Player input into development, is good (when informed). Player control of development is very bad indeed.

Thread is stupid, hence the OP is stupid.

FYI, if you're curious about CCP's finances: http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2013/08/29/569997/0/en/files/266254/0/CCP%20Financial%20Statements%20June%2030%202013.pdf

It's not the most recent thing, but it'll do. It looks like in the 6 months leading up to June 2013, CCP spent a little under $13 million on "Research & Development" (which includes software development). Extrapolating, that is $26 million per year. As a point of reference, that is around 2/3 of what it costs to develop the entire beloved Star Citizen game. That is the amount of money it takes for the current level of development and improvement.

How much more do you think a player base already spending (projected) $72 million per year is willing to throw on supporting not-yet-implemented features? At the current development costs, do you seriously think that maybe a couple million extra on top of that will make any difference?


That's true, but hiring new developers doesn't pay off for a good while. A month or two if you're lucky, much longer if not. Especially in a complex system like Eve, I expect a very long wind-up period.

Also, developers are specialized beasts. Say CCP hired 10 new web developers to completely overhaul the **** web experience around here. First, it takes a couple months to bring them up to speed and get them working at full efficiency. They are done with completely revamping Eve Gate, Forums, etc after 5-6 months. Then what? You have 10 employees with a task that is "completed" and nothing to do, and getting paid a collective $1 million / year. You can't simply fire them. That is a good way to get an awful reputation and ensure no new employees will work for you in the future. Business-wise, it is much better to keep a small web team, that can stay busy indefinitely.

Same goes for hiring anyone for a specific task. Again, developers are not highway workers. You cannot pick a developer up off the street and tell him "code me this", then pay him and wish him a good day. Developers are not hired for tasks. They are hired for long-term roles.


It has everything to do with the topic. Again, go read. Do you see that "Product Owner" role? Almost every software development model has something equivalent to that. Right now, the game design team fills the role, with advice and support from the CSM. Your idea would introduce the possibility of players paying to jump into that role. Not only is the average Eve player woefully unqualified to make those decisions, but a disparate community with different priorities and opinions has no hope of fulfilling the two-way communication requirement that guiding development requires. Just look at the hot mess that the F&I forum is.

The idea of introducing the customer directly into decision-making just does not work in software development.

Lastly, if a majority Eve players can't be assed to vote for CSM, which is the most direct way to send a message to CCP and to have your thoughts voiced and listened to, what makes you think they will spend money to get nothing in return other than hopes and dreams? This system, if it even worked the way you intended it to, would only benefit the two most prominent people who would participate in it: people with both too much money and too much opinion, and strangely RL-rich nullsec blocs. It would not represent the voice of Eve, and would not be good for Eve overall.