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Machariel fit isn't working, Please Help !

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Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#21 - 2014-03-05 16:39:25 UTC
Theragor wrote:
Rumini wrote:
Have you considered the fact it's not the fit, or the ship but simply your skills at this time? Risking an expensive hull without a full tech 2 tank is not a good idea. Park the ship, get back in to Apoc till you can use the ship correctly. Problem solved.

Well would an extra 5% resist make that big a difference and +100 hp with booster? Also I sold my apoc to afford the mach. What?


5% resists is actually -10% damage taken compared to what you're taking right now. The booster also gives you more shield while eating less capacitor (as long as you're not overboosting). Its not a magic bullet but its a start. The damage control will also reduce the shield damage you take by an additional 7.5% and double the amount of time you have to GTFO if your shield fails.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-03-08 20:41:58 UTC
Batelle wrote:
replace a gyro with a damage control.

Upgrade your hardeners for dread guristas or better, because they're a lot worse than t1.

Consider upgrading to a cheap pith c-type XL booster for better cap efficiency.

Lose the meta0 afterburner for at least a meta one (experimental 100mn one or something)

Make sure you're shooting the right ammo. EM/Thermal hardener means you're tanking sansha/blood so you should be shooting EMP L. That kind of fit doesn't work as well if you are doing poor dps, which could be an issue with your skills or an issue with ammo type.

get better skills.



This is the fit that I'm using ^^^^^^^.

Here it is if you want to import it to EFT or better yet, PYFA.

[Machariel, Machariel Shield PVE]

Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion L
[Empty High slot]

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-03-08 20:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arsine Mayhem
Also, take advantage of the test server. It can save you a lot of isk testing fits.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Singularity
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#24 - 2014-03-08 22:55:33 UTC
I'm seeing too many afterburner Machs, MWD Mach = best Mach. MWD right up into the 20-30km sweet spot, drop sentries and murder everything with 1450dps while using the MWD to minimize damage loss to falloff.

[Machariel, L4s]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Gist C-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, EMP L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Projectile Ambit Extension II
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


Garde II x4
Hobgoblin II x5
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-03-08 23:22:59 UTC
Machariel is a skill intensive ship with a light tank. Get a Maelstrom till you get better skills. It tanks like a beast and still does good DPS.
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#26 - 2014-03-08 23:53:43 UTC
Theragor wrote:
Rumini wrote:
Have you considered the fact it's not the fit, or the ship but simply your skills at this time? Risking an expensive hull without a full tech 2 tank is not a good idea. Park the ship, get back in to Apoc till you can use the ship correctly. Problem solved.

Well would an extra 5% resist make that big a difference and +100 hp with booster? Also I sold my apoc to afford the mach. What?




Sell the Mach, get a Bhaal. Emphasizes on the skills you have learnt, and is ... well, idk if the Bhaal is any good for PvE, but it's certainly one HELLA cool of a ship.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#27 - 2014-03-08 23:59:59 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Theragor wrote:
Rumini wrote:
Have you considered the fact it's not the fit, or the ship but simply your skills at this time? Risking an expensive hull without a full tech 2 tank is not a good idea. Park the ship, get back in to Apoc till you can use the ship correctly. Problem solved.

Well would an extra 5% resist make that big a difference and +100 hp with booster? Also I sold my apoc to afford the mach. What?




Sell the Mach, get a Bhaal. Emphasizes on the skills you have learnt, and is ... well, idk if the Bhaal is any good for PvE, but it's certainly one HELLA cool of a ship.


Bhaal is terrible for PvE, it's all about the neuts on the Bhaal. If you're going to get a laser BS for missioning you should go for either Nightmare, NApoc or NGeddon.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-03-09 03:11:53 UTC
As the posters above said Bhaalgorn is terrible for PVE. If you want projectiles go for the Maelstrom. If you want lasers go with an Apocalypse. If you want the Navy Apocalypse get it but don't waste ISK on a pirate faction BS with your skills. It's just a recipe for tears when you lose it.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#29 - 2014-03-09 14:41:45 UTC
Theragor wrote:
Right now I am doing L4s shield tanking with most my shield tanking skills a little low, and yes I know its not optimal but even with these skills I should be able to do L4s pretty easily right? Well I am currently having trouble doing them since I have to constantly run my xtra large shield booster and even then I am getting damaged faster than it can heal.

I am coming from armor tanking a Navy Apoc and when I was tanking with that I could just sit there and tank everything without a thought while blowing enemies out of the space time continuum. While I am still able to kill them pretty fast I just can't tank the damage even while speed tanking. Please help I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

High power
7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
1x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Medium power
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x 100MN Afterburner I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II (using 800s)
1x Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
1x Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Low power
4x Gyrostabilizer II
3x Tracking Enhancer II

Charges
160x Phased Plasma L
1,482x Titanium Sabot L
1,000x Fusion L

Drones
14x Warrior II
5x Salvage Drone I


No rigs? Fit rigs. Other that that, your fit isn't bad, exactly, but it could use some help. Can you fit T2 shield hardeners? Maybe a cheap deadspace Shield Booster - the great advantage of these is that they not only increase your burst tank, they're also more cap efficient: it takes less cap to repair a given amount of damage with them.

Also the Mach is absolutely not designed to "sit there and tank". You need to use your speed and agility to make sure that your ACs are doing the maximum damage (ACs have an extremely short optimal range, so you start losing DPS when you shot at targets more than a couple of Km away) and to use transversal and the mach's small sig to mitigate incoming DPS.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
george harries
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-03-09 22:38:17 UTC
What Malcanis said, I'd also add...

I flew a Mach after using a Golem then a Nightmare, I have (I think) an EM and Invul hardener and a deadspace booster, for some reason I have CCC's in the rigs(poor choice looking back) but cba to switch them out now however I very rarely use it....I only use light and medium drones - lights to get the frigs that occasionally get close enough to web me.

The main tank on the Mach is speed (I have a Republic fleet AB) and the DPS you put out, Gyros, tracking enhancers etc will help the dps and applied dps, but my concern is also that looking at the fit you don't have the skills to fly it well, not just the main skills but some of the support ones as well.....also depends where you're flying, I am back in Amarr space now and rarely fly it but started using a Paladin which is interesting with bastion mode but the Mach is great in Angel missions or in Minmatar space
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#31 - 2014-03-10 11:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
MWD fitted armor mach is in general even the better choice since the TE nerf, it got more range and tracks better at close. The tank is a bit oversized on it, the fitting also works with a plain T2 rep.

[Machariel, L4 armor]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Core A-Type Large Armor Repairer

Gist B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Fusion L
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Large Dynamic Fuel Valve I
Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II


Garde II x4
Warrior II x1
Warrior II x4

On the other hand the Navy Apoc can be flown nearly in the same fashion and is fairly comparable in overall performance, if you don't shoot Angels and Guristas all day long(it is still fairly effective against both and probably the best all-rounder in the Amarr BS line-up for L4s), if you are into a lot of movement and try to max out applied dps.

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, PVE Foxcat]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer

Core B-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L

Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II
Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II

Garde II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Hobgoblin II x3

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-03-10 12:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
A few things I'd add in this thread:

1. You said you sold your Apoc to afford a Machariel. That's a bad idea - once the ship has undocked, it can die at any moment to a number of unforseen events. That's why as a general rule of a thumb I never take a ship out unless I have enough money for at least one spare.

2. Pirate ships in general are expensive, skill intensive and generally scale well with modules. It's inadvisable to fly them with low skills or with low level modules. As a rule of a thumb, for a Machariel, T2 guns, faction Gyros and AB/MWD are highly recommended.

3. Mach is a mix between a speed tank, a sig tank and a dps tank. It means it's small and fast enough to avoid a lot of damage, while using its dps to quickly reduce any incoming threats. The problem with your original fit is that it's severely weak in all three areas, making the ship have suboptimal performance overall.



That said, don't underestimate the Navy Apoc. While it has less paper dps, the actual damage application is pretty insane thanks to lasers' innate strengths, coupled with Apoc's tracking AND optimal bonuses (= easy Scorch optimal 80km out with blaster-like tracking up close). As long as you're not facing Guristas or Angels, the Navy Apoc will wipe the floor with anything that faces it. Then over time, if you want to, upgrade to either the Nightmare or the Paladin for ultimate laser madness.
Theragor
#33 - 2014-03-11 00:32:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Theragor
I've been flying it a little while now and have had success with this fit, While my shield skills are still a little iffy most do not seem to have a real direct effect on my tanking except shield compensation and shield management. I have trained my prop skills some more and am now stable with all but booster running at 68.9%

High power
7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I

Medium power
1x Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
1x Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
1x Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field

Low power
3x Gyrostabilizer II
1x Damage Control II
3x Tracking Enhancer II

Rig Slot
3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Charges
1,477x EMP L
Drones
6x Warrior II
GKFC
Quis Leget Haec
#34 - 2014-03-11 04:38:00 UTC
Yeah, tbh it looks like it's more the fact that your skills are pretty terrible right now.

If you're fitting a Mach with T1 anything (aside from rigs) you're doing it wrong.
Theragor
#35 - 2014-03-11 15:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Theragor
GKFC wrote:
Yeah, tbh it looks like it's more the fact that your skills are pretty terrible right now.

If you're fitting a Mach with T1 anything (aside from rigs) you're doing it wrong.


You must not have read the most recent reply I made or something. It's working fine now with the build I posted and most the shield skills aren't effecting my tank. Please read all the posts or at least the most recent ones before commenting because when you reply like that it makes you sound like a douche.
Egravant Alduin
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#36 - 2014-03-11 15:57:17 UTC
Theragor wrote:
Right now I am doing L4s shield tanking with most my shield tanking skills a little low, and yes I know its not optimal but even with these skills I should be able to do L4s pretty easily right? Well I am currently having trouble doing them since I have to constantly run my xtra large shield booster and even then I am getting damaged faster than it can heal.

I am coming from armor tanking a Navy Apoc and when I was tanking with that I could just sit there and tank everything without a thought while blowing enemies out of the space time continuum. While I am still able to kill them pretty fast I just can't tank the damage even while speed tanking. Please help I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

High power
7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
1x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Medium power
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x 100MN Afterburner I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II (using 800s)
1x Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
1x Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Low power
4x Gyrostabilizer II
3x Tracking Enhancer II

Charges
160x Phased Plasma L
1,482x Titanium Sabot L
1,000x Fusion L

Drones
14x Warrior II
5x Salvage Drone I


I m flying an armor mach with 3 tracking computers in mid and i use the lows for armor tanking.It works great unless you fall asleep in the keyboard.

Feel the wrath of the GECKO!
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-03-11 16:33:22 UTC
Egravant Alduin wrote:
Theragor wrote:
Right now I am doing L4s shield tanking with most my shield tanking skills a little low, and yes I know its not optimal but even with these skills I should be able to do L4s pretty easily right? Well I am currently having trouble doing them since I have to constantly run my xtra large shield booster and even then I am getting damaged faster than it can heal.

I am coming from armor tanking a Navy Apoc and when I was tanking with that I could just sit there and tank everything without a thought while blowing enemies out of the space time continuum. While I am still able to kill them pretty fast I just can't tank the damage even while speed tanking. Please help I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

High power
7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
1x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Medium power
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x 100MN Afterburner I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II (using 800s)
1x Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
1x Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Low power
4x Gyrostabilizer II
3x Tracking Enhancer II

Charges
160x Phased Plasma L
1,482x Titanium Sabot L
1,000x Fusion L

Drones
14x Warrior II
5x Salvage Drone I


I m flying an armor mach with 3 tracking computers in mid and i use the lows for armor tanking.It works great unless you fall asleep in the keyboard.


I would imagine TC would be better than the TE so it sounds interesting. Are you still able to fit 3 gyros?
GKFC
Quis Leget Haec
#38 - 2014-03-11 23:53:22 UTC
Theragor wrote:
Please read all the posts or at least the most recent ones before commenting because when you reply like that it makes you sound like a douche.


A douche. Really? OK here goes.

I read your posts. Your skills for a Mach are terrible, and I'm not just talking about your tank.

Firstly:

Theragor wrote:

7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I


means your Gunnery skills are bad. You should at least be using these.

Secondly:

Theragor wrote:

1x Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
1x Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
1x Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field


is you trying to hide your below average Navigation / Support skills with fancier mods as shown by:

Theragor wrote:
Horrible never trained em XD never had to use an AB with Amarr. (except in pvp)


and

Theragor wrote:

3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


You need more training as you still have quite a way to go before you can properly fit / fly a Machariel.

Right now you sound like a Learner driver who went out and bought a Ferrari, spray painted it luminous green, can't figure out how to drive it properly, and gets angsty when people point out valid holes in what he's trying to do.

Frankly you're in no position to be calling anyone a "douche."

Thanks.
Theragor
#39 - 2014-03-12 01:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Theragor
GKFC wrote:
Theragor wrote:
Please read all the posts or at least the most recent ones before commenting because when you reply like that it makes you sound like a douche.


A douche. Really?


If you act like one of course I will call you one. I have not responded rudely to anyone else that replied to this post except for you, this should be a clear indicator that you responded in a way that was found, also, to be rude. If the fit works for me then it works for me. Yes my skills are still a little lacking but I have been training them up and as I level them up my build will inevitably change to become less reliant on the rigs.

And yes I am also using shinier modules but it is not only to compensate for my lack in skill training but also because they are quite good in comparison to their tech 2 counterparts. I will upgrade my guns after I have finished training skills with my current attributes. If you do not like my build or how I have responded to your rudeness I apologize and recommend that you go elsewhere in the forums.

Thank you and good day.
GKFC
Quis Leget Haec
#40 - 2014-03-12 01:58:51 UTC
Theragor wrote:
I'll call you a douche as long as you keep acting like one Smile And if the fit works for me why does it matter to you. Or are you just jealous? Don't be jealous man it's unbecoming, makes you seem desperate. Plenty of other people have commented on it and I never reacted rudely to them. This should be an obvious indicator that you replied to the post badly.


Nice edit btw, shame I saw the original. And again you showed more examples of how (underneath all the bravado) you really don't have any idea what you're talking about.

I'm not picking apart your fit / skills because I'm jealous of you. Not at all.

Point is your fit wasn't working for you. Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist. And all I saw was someone jumping into a shiny ship that they really couldn't operate and then wondering why. Which all sounded rather petulant.

Of course shiny mods are better than T2, what a ridiculous thing to say, but here that isn't really the best solution.

Good luck training, because that's really the crux of the problem.
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