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I must be the worst player to come along in years

Author
George Boothe
Blootered Bastards
#21 - 2014-03-07 10:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: George Boothe
Sorry for the double post, but I thought this might also help the OP and others.

In frig PvP there is generally 3 engagement range types:

0m-500m orbit in your face brawl.

Kiting inside scram range with afterburner web and scram.
The idea here is to keep out of the enemies close range guns but still within your range of damage application.
Usually this takes place at ranges of 5000m-9000m.

Kiting outside of scram range.
this ships are usually MWD fit with a warp disruptor and try to keep way outside of your damage range, as well as outside scram and webrange.
Usually this will involve fighting at 13+km as overheated (nonfaction/nonboosted) webs can reach out to 13km.

Know what range you want to fight in, see if you can fit a ship that applies damage at that range and can also force that range on the enemy. (I.e. more speed and longer damage range)
Then know which ship will fight you on equal terms, i.e. your range is also their ideal range. As a beginner you want to stay away from these if the char is significantly older than you, as this usually comes down to who has the better SP.
Engage ships that you know you can force to your range, that do NOT want to be in that range. These you can usually kill even if you are at a significant disadvantage SP-wise(if they do not run, so if you actually catch them).
Run from ships that can force you into a range that you do not want to fight in.

A good start is to look at good frig pvpers and at their losses. See if you can understand what went into their thoughprocess in building the fit. If you understand the range the fit works in, you can adapt the fit accordingly to your SP, if the fit still works in that range (i.e. a slasher having to drop from 200mm t2 autocannons to 150mm t2 autocannons will usually just make the fit a little less effective but not completely ****, however a slicer having to drop from t2 pulse lasers to t1 pulse lasers will be useless as the scorch ammo is required to reach your combat range) you can go ahead, buy the ship and fittings 20+ times in jita, let red frog freight ship it to your desired starting system, set your clone there and just start heading out until all ships are lost. Chances are you will get some good kills.

To get your general PvP knowledge up and learn what to engage, and how to deal with the different ships you encounter i will leave you with a couple of links to browse through:

Most importantly:
http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html
Eve altruist is a very good pvp blog, and the "know your enemy" series gives a good overview over the different ships and their capabilities.
Read the parts on t1 attack and combat frigs and the ones on t2 and faction frigs for starters. This will give you a general idea of what each of these ships can be doing.

Secondly, as you fly minmatar, ammo choice is very important. Know which ships have what kind of resistances and shoot the correct ammo.
http://fleeonsight.blogspot.nl/2013/05/updated-complete-guide-to-ammunition.html
http://www.evealtruist.com/2012/02/damage-types-in-pvp.html

As you seem to have some kind of problems with fast (mwd) kiters, learn how to slingshot correctly, this is easiest if you fit an mwd yourself, but sometimes the kiter can be caught unaware and you slingshot a slicer with your 1800m/s overheated slasher.
http://eveopportunist.blogspot.nl/p/art-of.html

Next up, if you have the opportunity to look at your enemies guns before the fight, here is a helpful chart (made by Azual Skol from the Eve Altruist blog) where you can check which guns the enemy has fit, which tells you what engagement range they will have.
http://i.imgur.com/Wsf2ban.jpg
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-03-07 10:29:43 UTC
Thank you, excellent helpful reply...I have some reading to do now ...
Mika Mikone
Disasterpiece LTD
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2014-03-07 20:24:41 UTC
my biggest problem so far is the inability to find a 1vs1 fight, so far i found only ganks

only then will i be able to see what are by problems and mistakes
raider womb
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#24 - 2014-03-09 00:16:23 UTC
Mika Mikone wrote:
my biggest problem so far is the inability to find a 1vs1 fight, so far i found only ganks

only then will i be able to see what are by problems and mistakes

I know that feel.

You can try dueling random people in tradehubs or asking in local if anyone would be up for duels.
WaterMarks
The Keywork
#25 - 2014-03-10 06:56:36 UTC
rifter has the largest base hp out of all the combat oriented frigs (if EVElopedia is still correct) drop the rep and go with buffer tank the only frig (in my opinion) that can get away with a rep is the incursis.

or try flying a diffrent ship

Frontline Frigs (better servivability)
-punisher
-merlin
-incursis
-breacher
Combat Frigs (better dps)
-tormentor
-kestral
-tristan
-rifter

-Fly Reckless-

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#26 - 2014-03-11 01:35:08 UTC
WaterMarks wrote:
rifter has the largest base hp out of all the combat oriented frigs (if EVElopedia is still correct) drop the rep and go with buffer tank the only frig (in my opinion) that can get away with a rep is the incursis.


Plated rifter can have a surprising amount of HP and can be quite tanky. But plating it removes what small speed advantage you have by flying a rifter.

As for armour repping in frigs pretty much All amarr and gallente frigs operate well with a small AAR or even a small armour repper II if the fit is right. Minnie frigs also operate quite well with a repping fit. Hell people are even dual repping (both shield and armour) the breacher!

Don't write off the other frigs if they are armour rep fit you may get surprised.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#27 - 2014-03-11 04:17:46 UTC
WaterMarks wrote:
.........drop the rep and go with buffer tank the only frig (in my opinion) that can get away with a rep is the incursis.

or try flying a diffrent ship

Frontline Frigs (better servivability)
-punisher
-merlin
-incursis
-breacher
Combat Frigs (better dps)
-tormentor
-kestral
-tristan
-rifter




* ummmmmmmm No.



* Disclaimer:
I added the 'ummmmmmm' bit as recently I discovered on these very forums that BM owns the rights to one word replies like 'No'

WaterMarks
The Keywork
#28 - 2014-03-11 09:08:41 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
WaterMarks wrote:
rifter has the largest base hp out of all the combat oriented frigs (if EVElopedia is still correct) drop the rep and go with buffer tank the only frig (in my opinion) that can get away with a rep is the incursis.


Plated rifter can have a surprising amount of HP and can be quite tanky. But plating it removes what small speed advantage you have by flying a rifter.

As for armour repping in frigs pretty much All amarr and gallente frigs operate well with a small AAR or even a small armour repper II if the fit is right. Minnie frigs also operate quite well with a repping fit. Hell people are even dual repping (both shield and armour) the breacher!

Don't write off the other frigs if they are armour rep fit you may get surprised.


and i never said plating a rifter, sheild tanking is much more efficiant (not ever single ships need the tackle trifecta)
i tend to do much better with a buffer fit rifter over active tanked one. and i do see the up side of running rep on a rifter due to using projectiles.
and i do run amarr ships (and tristan) with reps dont know why i posted only incursus...grave yard makes me tired lol.

and i have yet to see a dual repd breacher lol. i will have to give it a try (since breacher is one of my fav frigs) but im not sure how effective it would be.

IbanezLaney wrote:
* ummmmmmmm No.

* Disclaimer:
I added the 'ummmmmmm' bit as recently I discovered on these very forums that BM owns the rights to one word replies like 'No'



no what??
all u have put towards the ops problem is 'join a player corp' verry sound advice but not answering anything for him all im doing is giving some suggestions.

-Fly Reckless-

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#29 - 2014-03-11 13:31:28 UTC
WaterMarks wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
WaterMarks wrote:
rifter has the largest base hp out of all the combat oriented frigs (if EVElopedia is still correct) drop the rep and go with buffer tank the only frig (in my opinion) that can get away with a rep is the incursis.


Plated rifter can have a surprising amount of HP and can be quite tanky. But plating it removes what small speed advantage you have by flying a rifter.

As for armour repping in frigs pretty much All amarr and gallente frigs operate well with a small AAR or even a small armour repper II if the fit is right. Minnie frigs also operate quite well with a repping fit. Hell people are even dual repping (both shield and armour) the breacher!

Don't write off the other frigs if they are armour rep fit you may get surprised.


and i never said plating a rifter, sheild tanking is much more efficiant (not ever single ships need the tackle trifecta)
i tend to do much better with a buffer fit rifter over active tanked one. and i do see the up side of running rep on a rifter due to using projectiles.
and i do run amarr ships (and tristan) with reps dont know why i posted only incursus...grave yard makes me tired lol.

and i have yet to see a dual repd breacher lol. i will have to give it a try (since breacher is one of my fav frigs) but im not sure how effective it would be.

IbanezLaney wrote:
* ummmmmmmm No.

* Disclaimer:
I added the 'ummmmmmm' bit as recently I discovered on these very forums that BM owns the rights to one word replies like 'No'



no what??
all u have put towards the ops problem is 'join a player corp' verry sound advice but not answering anything for him all im doing is giving some suggestions.



I understand you are trying to help him but you supplied misleading information.

The Incursus is not the only ship that can get away with a repper. A resist bonus can work out better than a rep bonus for active fits.

The Kessy is not a higher dps ship when compared to the Merlin as your list suggests.
I have never seen a Kessy do the 230dps (Before Overheat) that a Neutron Merlin can do.



WaterMarks
The Keywork
#30 - 2014-03-11 13:48:13 UTC
hence why i said 'in my opinion'

kestral compaired to merlin, yes in close range it can have better dps GL killing a kited kestril with light missle with ur merlin.
the kestral is a more combat oriented then the merlin and i will have to reloook at numbers of a brawling kes compared to a brawling merlin.

u also forgot to mention the amount of dps a breacher can also put out compaird to a rifter.

-Fly Reckless-

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#31 - 2014-03-12 02:09:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Taoist Dragon
WaterMarks wrote:


u also forgot to mention the amount of dps a breacher can also put out compaird to a rifter.


Really?

My standard rifter fit has higher DPS, is faster, more agile has greater overall range that the max dps breacher I can fit. And I have max frig skills. Admittedly it fights in falloff as all projectiles do but the sheer utility of the rifter means that it is often overlooked nowadays. Primarily because very few people actually know how to fly the bloody thing Cool

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.

Dreadeye
Grumpy Old Bastards
#32 - 2014-03-13 09:23:42 UTC
Did you engage someone in lowsec and maybe got popped by sentry guns?
Btw use the sentry guns to your advantage and make them engage you first then you have the guns on your side.
Try search youtube for 'eveiseasy' and watch some of thoose vids they are a bit old now but theres alot of educational information in there.

Agony unleashed runs pvp clases http://www.agony-unleashed.com/ they are great

and also join a corp that will teach you the ropes.
Shitty Shitty Pants
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-03-14 01:54:54 UTC
Well good news guys; OP finally landed a kill Cool

Would post link but stupid forum policy...
Eelis Kiy
Revelation Space
#34 - 2014-03-14 09:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Eelis Kiy
+1 join a player corp. There's only so much you'll pick up on your own. Reading up on stuff is good but flying alongside people who have more knowledge than you is the biggest help. 6 months later you will be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner.
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