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SOE Nestor Battleship discussion

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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#81 - 2014-03-08 01:04:03 UTC
Ryn Aldent wrote:
In my own Corp the Nester has been used successfully as a logi ship, running incursions. A VERY EXPENSIVE logi ship but it works.


How does it compare to T2 logi?
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#82 - 2014-03-08 05:59:48 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Okay here's my attempt at a PVE loadout for level 4 missions.

Before the troll goes "Not all ships in Eve are for missions" I got it... You can't run missions with a Bhaalgorn either. This is my attempt at a loadout to keep discussion going and perhaps someone will find a good use for the Nestor. If you have a good PVP loadout that's not bait by all means please post it.

There's not enough PG for a prop mod or tachs. This fit still requires a +3 PG implant. At all level 5 skills the Nestor doesn't even have enough PG for a LAR and a full rack of mega pulse lasers... This is without ANY other modules fitted! Not enough low slots for a heat sink and you lose DPS if you replace a DDA with one.

It gets 878 DPS with Bouncer II's and 972 with Garde II. Due to the 1.1 drone nerf using the Bouncer DPS figure is more realistic since the range of Garde's is crazy short.

[Nestor, PVE]
Ammatar Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Reactive Armor Hardener
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Warden II x5


You might as well shield tank it if you are going to use it for PvE...its that bad..XD
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2014-03-08 07:51:37 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
If price isn't an issue, how does the Nestor fare as an armor logi? Messing around in EFT says it can put out almost twice the reps of a Guardian.


Yeah for a couple minutes.

Look at what it takes to get a 4 repper nestor stable........
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2014-03-08 09:14:43 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Ryn Aldent wrote:
In my own Corp the Nester has been used successfully as a logi ship, running incursions. A VERY EXPENSIVE logi ship but it works.


How does it compare to T2 logi?


It does rep a bit more(around 30% with corpum a type meds), can field 1-2 more but weaker tracking links and adds around 800 DPS in sentrys. I have one for static VG Inc fleets but it isn't that impressive, even if you ignore cost(what you basically have to do when you put a halve way good setup together). The extra rep isn't really needed in a fleet that could afford it, it is far harder to keep alive with a marauder than a normal logi(that only needs 1-2 reps and be done with it) and it is 5 times the ISK of a pimp logi for a few more dps you could add with sentry drones and probably lose by the weaker tracking links. For everything else, where you need a mwd and movement it is worse in any way to normal logis, because it lacks the rep range and the proper cap.
Berasus
Ice station zebra
#85 - 2014-03-08 12:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Berasus
Onictus wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
If price isn't an issue, how does the Nestor fare as an armor logi? Messing around in EFT says it can put out almost twice the reps of a Guardian.


Yeah for a couple minutes.

Look at what it takes to get a 4 repper nestor stable........


6 repper nestor, > 1 hour cap time
(10 minute 47s if you downgrade the implants to #05's to save cost)
Needs to trade 1 large cap transmitter with another ship. (hey, when comparing it to a guardian, fair is fair)

Of course the whole issue is moot since it only gets 16.8km range on its remote reps which just doesn't cut it for a dedicated logistic ship. Needs at least double that.

[Nestor, New Setup 1]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Explosive Membrane II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

100MN Afterburner II
Remote Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Remote Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor II
Large Remote Repair Augmentor II
Large Remote Repair Augmentor II

EO-606 implant
RA-706 implant
EM-806 implant
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#86 - 2014-03-10 20:52:11 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
If price isn't an issue, how does the Nestor fare as an armor logi? Messing around in EFT says it can put out almost twice the reps of a Guardian.


Yeah for a couple minutes.

Look at what it takes to get a 4 repper nestor stable........


I messed around a tiny bit in EFT, and seem to recall it taking one or two Guardian ETs. I can check when I can access EFT.

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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-03-10 20:53:50 UTC
Berasus wrote:
Nestor Logi fit


Why do you have TCs? I assume they're meant to be scan res scripted SeBos?

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Berasus
Ice station zebra
#88 - 2014-03-11 01:52:50 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
Berasus wrote:
Nestor Logi fit


Why do you have TCs? I assume they're meant to be scan res scripted SeBos?


Force of habit from normally flying oneiros for logistics. You could put sebos there if you want (probably a good idea to in fact) but the point was really just that it is actually possible to get a nestor effectively cap stable with an impressive amount of rep(6 bonused large reppers) in a similar setup to the other cap chaining logis. Its big downfall as a logistics ship is the crap range on it's reppers (and its price tag, tho incursion runners may overlook that if it did the job noticeably better than a guardian).
Kahdath
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-03-11 02:30:52 UTC
Found this tucked away in the patch notes for tomorrow (Rubicon 1.3):

The Nestor has received a small set of balance changes:
Capacitor raised to 7000 (was 6200)
Capacitor recharge time lowered to 1025s (was 1154s)
Scan resolution increased to 125 (was 85)
Role bonus to range of remote armor repairers raised to 200% (was 100%)
Berasus
Ice station zebra
#90 - 2014-03-11 04:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Berasus
Kahdath wrote:
Found this tucked away in the patch notes for tomorrow (Rubicon 1.3):


Wow, that might just make it a viable logistics ship.
The cap changes should even make it possible to run a full rack of 7 large remote reppers without relying on cap-chaining (or stick to 6 and not need quite so many cap modules).

It's still going to hurt for range tho. %200 bonus is a definite improvement but its still a touch low. 25.2km instead of 16.8km.
Kahdath
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2014-03-11 06:06:10 UTC
Berasus wrote:
Kahdath wrote:
Found this tucked away in the patch notes for tomorrow (Rubicon 1.3):


Wow, that might just make it a viable logistics ship.
The cap changes should even make it possible to run a full rack of 7 large remote reppers without relying on cap-chaining (or stick to 6 and not need quite so many cap modules).

It's still going to hurt for range tho. %200 bonus is a definite improvement but its still a touch low. 25.2km instead of 16.8km.


Pretty much my exact thoughts. I'm going to wait for the updated pyfa/eft files and then play with loadouts to see how many remote reps i can use with only a couple of cap mods.

Too bad they didn't just go the whole hog and give it ~50km rep range though. Still, in a battleship gang, 25km should be enough for most scenarios. Certainly a lot less restrictive than the 8km that a spider tanking fleet has to cope with.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#92 - 2014-03-11 14:10:02 UTC
Berasus wrote:
Kahdath wrote:
Found this tucked away in the patch notes for tomorrow (Rubicon 1.3):


Wow, that might just make it a viable logistics ship.
The cap changes should even make it possible to run a full rack of 7 large remote reppers without relying on cap-chaining (or stick to 6 and not need quite so many cap modules).

It's still going to hurt for range tho. %200 bonus is a definite improvement but its still a touch low. 25.2km instead of 16.8km.

This does sound like a start in the right direction. Now only if the price would be similar to other pirate faction battleships.
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#93 - 2014-03-11 14:28:47 UTC
I took a look at the Nestor on the test server a week or so ago, and the changes really do make a difference. I'm a little out of practice fitting ships, but the additional cap and RR distance bonuses made it easier for me to make a stable build.

These changes really help add a little more focus to the Nestor, it's a solid ship if you don't judge it by the over inflated price tag.

After my testing the only criticism I have is that the slot layout doesn't feel quite right. I often found myself with an over abundance of mid slots, and a limited number of modules I actually wanted to fit there, but quite constrained in the low slots.

I know the layout is more conducive for a exploration build, so it can fit the Analyzer/Hacking devices, but I feel the Nestor could really benefit from loosing one mid slot and gaining one low slot.
Kahdath
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2014-03-11 15:22:23 UTC
Steph Livingston wrote:
I took a look at the Nestor on the test server a week or so ago, and the changes really do make a difference. I'm a little out of practice fitting ships, but the additional cap and RR distance bonuses made it easier for me to make a stable build.

These changes really help add a little more focus to the Nestor, it's a solid ship if you don't judge it by the over inflated price tag.

After my testing the only criticism I have is that the slot layout doesn't feel quite right. I often found myself with an over abundance of mid slots, and a limited number of modules I actually wanted to fit there, but quite constrained in the low slots.

I know the layout is more conducive for a exploration build, so it can fit the Analyzer/Hacking devices, but I feel the Nestor could really benefit from loosing one mid slot and gaining one low slot.


Honestly I love the abundance of midslots. Try mixing and matching the following:
- Cap rechargers
- Cap boosters
- Sensor Boosters
- ECCM (Magnetometric)
- AB/MWD/MJD

Any of these are pretty useful on the Nestor.
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#95 - 2014-03-11 16:51:48 UTC
Kahdath wrote:

Honestly I love the abundance of midslots. Try mixing and matching the following:
- Cap rechargers
- Cap boosters
- Sensor Boosters
- ECCM (Magnetometric)
- AB/MWD/MJD

Any of these are pretty useful on the Nestor.


I have, but I found even with the sensor and cap boosting equipment, I found I usually would have preferred a low slot over a medium. The Nestor can't negate much damage by speed tanking like the smaller logi ships, so having the option of fitting a heavier tank, which I kind of expect from a Gallente/Amarr hybrid anyway, would be a nice option.

Plus, when you don't need the tank, there are other options for cap recharge in the low slots which provide more benefit, but at a cost.

It's just my personal opinion.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-03-11 16:55:39 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay here's my attempt at a PVE loadout for level 4 missions.

Before the troll goes "Not all ships in Eve are for missions" I got it... You can't run missions with a Bhaalgorn either. This is my attempt at a loadout to keep discussion going and perhaps someone will find a good use for the Nestor. If you have a good PVP loadout that's not bait by all means please post it.

There's not enough PG for a prop mod or tachs. This fit still requires a +3 PG implant. At all level 5 skills the Nestor doesn't even have enough PG for a LAR and a full rack of mega pulse lasers... This is without ANY other modules fitted! Not enough low slots for a heat sink and you lose DPS if you replace a DDA with one.

It gets 878 DPS with Bouncer II's and 972 with Garde II. Due to the 1.1 drone nerf using the Bouncer DPS figure is more realistic since the range of Garde's is crazy short.

[Nestor, PVE]
Ammatar Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Reactive Armor Hardener
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Warden II x5


You might as well shield tank it if you are going to use it for PvE...its that bad..XD

Thanks for the review. I took five minutes to throw it together so I'm sure it could be better. Please post your shield fit
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#97 - 2014-03-12 15:34:23 UTC
I was going to come back here and mention that Nestor buffs, but I was beaten to it. Also, I just realized the fit I commented on had Remote Tracking Computers, and that apparently Tracking Links are now called Remote Tracking Computers.

So the Nestor has a stronger cap (both amount and recharge), faster locking of smaller friendlies, and more rep range.

My thoughts are to use one as a giant logistics platform. If it can't run cap stable, or if neuting pressure is applied, a cap buddy could be helpful. Maybe a Guardian to set up a cap chain and for secondary reps.

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Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#98 - 2014-03-12 15:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
IIshira wrote:
Bertrand Butler wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay here's my attempt at a PVE loadout for level 4 missions.

Before the troll goes "Not all ships in Eve are for missions" I got it... You can't run missions with a Bhaalgorn either. This is my attempt at a loadout to keep discussion going and perhaps someone will find a good use for the Nestor. If you have a good PVP loadout that's not bait by all means please post it.

There's not enough PG for a prop mod or tachs. This fit still requires a +3 PG implant. At all level 5 skills the Nestor doesn't even have enough PG for a LAR and a full rack of mega pulse lasers... This is without ANY other modules fitted! Not enough low slots for a heat sink and you lose DPS if you replace a DDA with one.

It gets 878 DPS with Bouncer II's and 972 with Garde II. Due to the 1.1 drone nerf using the Bouncer DPS figure is more realistic since the range of Garde's is crazy short.

[Nestor, PVE]
Ammatar Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Reactive Armor Hardener
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
Bouncer II x5
Warden II x5


You might as well shield tank it if you are going to use it for PvE...its that bad..XD

Thanks for the review. I took five minutes to throw it together so I'm sure it could be better. Please post your shield fit


Well, as I said its bad for PvE. Here is a shield variant for sansha.

[Nestor, PVE]

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
Pith A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Large Micro Jump Drive

Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Drone Scope Chip II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Curator II x5



Will give you about a thousand DPS with curators and scorch @~65km. Really, you can get that much from a T1 BS...
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
#99 - 2014-03-12 18:06:07 UTC
That's the same build... I think something went wrong in your post.

I think I should point out that the Nestor's laser bonus fits an extreme sniper rather then a close range bruiser. Even if you can't fit a whole rack, T2 beam lasers pre crystal should have an optimal range of 70km+. Throw a set of microwave and wardens out and you're probably effective up to the 120km range.

Ships like the Domi can do that, but rely on drone damage exclusively.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#100 - 2014-03-12 19:38:44 UTC
derp...fixed.