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New ship size: Skirmish Battleships
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-03-10 18:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
They would have fewer high slots and weapon hardpoints, like cruisers and frigates. They wouldn't be as powerful as the big battleships, but they would have battleship powergrids and be able to fit the biggest subcapital modules while also being fairly mobile. With speed and agility higher than a Typhoon, they would also have lower mass and as such could gain a larger speed boost with 100MN afterburners and microwarpdrives.

Now wait a minute, I know what you're thinking. These things aren't worth a darn because they're still easy to hit and can't shoot as hard as a regular battleship. Well now they can tank like a battleship--better than a battlecruiser. They have a battleship capacitor. I think this platform would be ideal for a variety of roles, such as disruption battleships, battleship logistics, or large exploration ships. With a higher agility they might even be seen occasionally in roaming gangs that already welcome battlecruisers but turn down battleships on account of their slowness. The skirmish battleships would warp slow but would align like battlecruisers.

Here's a few designs I've come up with to show off the type:


    Race: Amarr
    Role: Energy Warrior
    7 high slots, 3 mid slots, 7 low slots
    5 turret hardpoints
    100mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 320m3 drone bay
    ~ 11,000 MW powergrid
    10% reduction in capacitor cost of Energy Emission modules and 10% bonus to Energy Vampire capacitor bonus per skill level
    10% bonus to range of Energy Emission modules per skill level
    Role bonus: +300% bonus to range of Energy Transfers
    uses:
  • demolish opponent's capacitor overwhelm opponent with its own capacitor superiority
  • transfer capacitor to fleet members
  • it can even participate in logistics, as it does well in a cap chain

    • Race: Caldari
    Role: Shield Restoration
    7 high slots, 6 mid slots, 4 low slots
    4 turret hardpoints, 2 launcher hardpoints
    75mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 225m3 drone bay
    ~ 7000 MW powergrid, ~900 Tf CPU
    15% reduction in Shield Transporter capacitor use per skill level
    10% bonus to Energy Transfer amount per skill level
    Role bonus: +1250% bonus to range of Shield Transporters and Energy Transfers
    uses:
  • shield logistics with cap chain
  • superior logistics range and energy transfer amount
  • won't die in a fire when you look at it funny

    • Race: Gallente
    Role: Sensor Dampening
    6 high slots, 6 mid slots, 5 low slots
    5 turret hardpoints
    125mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 250m3 drone bay
    ~ 9000 MW powergrid
    13% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener effectiveness per sill level
    Role bonus: +50% Afterburner speed bonus
    uses:
  • reduce opponents' targeting range very low so your fleet can get closer, while kiting the heavy hitters
  • demolish opponents' scan resolution to prevent them from switching targets
  • might make a neat bait ship as it can use its damps along with its tank to last longer

    • Race: Minmatar
    Role: Webs and Painters and Missiles, Oh My!
    6 high slots, 7 mid slots, 4 low slots
    5 launcher hardpoints
    100mbit/sec drone bandwidth, 260m3 drone bay
    ~ 8,000 MW powergrid
    10% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per skill level
    10% bonus to range of Stasis Webifiers per skill level
    Role bonus: -33% effectiveness and +100% range of Stasis Webifiers
    uses:
  • incredible web range
  • can make small targets easy for fleet members to hit
  • can obliterate cruisers

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Razor Rocker
Super Mother Fan Club
#2 - 2014-03-10 18:56:36 UTC
Kinda sounds like tier 3 BC with different bonuses
Aakkonen
Yoyodyne Industries
#3 - 2014-03-10 19:04:37 UTC
Intresting atleast but the caldari one... wouldnt it obsolete basi and scimi?

Bad Jokes since -09.... Fly Safe! o7
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#4 - 2014-03-10 19:05:46 UTC
Like… Strategic cruisers…?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2014-03-10 19:11:31 UTC
Op, you do know BS tank is not that much better than BC/Cruiser tank right? Once you take into account mobility also.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Thermodynamics
#6 - 2014-03-10 19:27:06 UTC
So take Tier 3 BCs, and combine them with Recon and Logi ships? No Ty.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-10 19:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Aakkonen wrote:
Intresting atleast but the caldari one... wouldnt it obsolete basi and scimi?
No, why would it? It's not as mobile as they are.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Op, you do know BS tank is not that much better than BC/Cruiser tank right? Once you take into account mobility also.
Sure I know that. I also know that in some cases that mobility is virtually meaningless and tank is really what matters. Good tank is nice in a POS bash, incursions, against Sleepers, and in heavy firefights. Those are some of the more commonly experienced cases where cruiser tank and mobility wont get you very far.


Razor Rocker wrote:
Kinda sounds like tier 3 BC with different bonuses
Liam Inkuras wrote:
So take Tier 3 BCs, and combine them with Recon and Logi ships? No Ty.
I'm not seeing the similarity

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2014-03-10 20:56:51 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
They would have fewer high slots and weapon hardpoints, like cruisers and frigates. They wouldn't be as powerful as the big battleships, but they would have battleship powergrids and be able to fit the biggest subcapital modules while also being fairly mobile. With speed and agility higher than a Typhoon, they would also have lower mass and as such could gain a larger speed boost with 100MN afterburners and microwarpdrives.

Now wait a minute, I know what you're thinking.


I was thinking they were called Attack Battlecruisers.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Pew Terror
All of it
#9 - 2014-03-10 21:04:33 UTC
Posting in a "Gimme OP nanologireconsuperwtfpwnbattleship nao!" thread.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-03-10 22:20:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Batelle wrote:
I was thinking they were called Attack Battlecruisers.

Let's compare the two, shall we:
CBC=combat battlecruiser // ABC=attack battlecruiser // SBS=skirmish battleship // CBS=combat battleship

Max Velocity:
CBC: |||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: |||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||

Agility:
CBC: |||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: |||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||

Signature Radius:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: |||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Hit Points:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Self-repair Speed:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Capacitor:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Capacitor Regen:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Scan Resolution:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: ||||||||||||
CBS: |||||||||

Damage Output:
CBC: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: |||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Weapon Range:
CBC: ||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Warp Speed:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: ||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||

CPU Output:
CBC: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
SBS: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

and lets not forget my favorite comparison...
Powergrid:
CBC: |||||||||||||||
ABC: ||||||||||||||
SBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
CBS: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

So please, enlighten me as to the similarities my proposal has with already existing ships.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-03-10 22:25:25 UTC
Pew Terror wrote:
Posting in a "Gimme OP nanologireconsuperwtfpwnbattleship nao!" thread.
That's not what I normally hear about this proposal. People usually say it's too weak, underpowered, nobody will fly it, etc.

Please explain how it is overpowered, and keep in mind you don't have to sell me on your idea, you've got to convince everyone reading this thread.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#12 - 2014-03-10 23:00:18 UTC
So basically OP is proposing ...attack battlecruisers.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#13 - 2014-03-10 23:34:48 UTC
"Skirmish Battleship" is literally another word for "Battelcruiser."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlecruiser wrote:
A battlecruiser, or battle cruiser, was a large capital ship built in the first half of the 20th century. They were similar in size and cost to a battleship, and typically carried the same kind of heavy guns, but battlecruisers generally carried less armour and were faster.


I'm pretty sure we already have these. We have the old-school CBC's, which can fit near-BS DPS or near-BS tank, but not both (or go between the two). We also have the newer ABC's, which exactly match the dictionary definition. There are also the recently rebalanced Attack Battleships, like the Apoc, that pretty much do this as well. (Napoc goes just over 1km/s with a just a MWD and no speed mods). What OP wants is pretty much exactly what CCP was trying to do with the ABSes.

Perhaps some of these ships need tweaking, but the role the OP is asking for already has several platforms dedicated to it. New ones are not needed.

Overhaul Dscan!
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2014-03-10 23:41:32 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Perhaps some of these ships need tweaking, but the role the OP is asking for already has several platforms dedicated to it. New ones are not needed.
Name one, and no the Apocalypse is not one. It is an attack ship, what I am propposing is anything but.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#15 - 2014-03-11 00:23:15 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Perhaps some of these ships need tweaking, but the role the OP is asking for already has several platforms dedicated to it. New ones are not needed.
Name one, and no the Apocalypse is not one. It is an attack ship, what I am propposing is anything but.


I like how you ask me name one, after I named several, and then claim that what I named doesn't fit. What are you even proposing then? A brick with high mobility and low dps? There are BC's for that. A fast skirmisher with high tank? There are HAC's for that. Everything you are asking for can be done on existing platforms.

Have some fits. They are Amarr and I made them both in under 5 mins, so these are just plain not optimal. Bear this craptaculitude in mind and compare the BC to the BS.

[Harbinger, Harbinger fit]

Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
[Empty Med slot] (your choice, probably cap booster)

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
[Empty High slot] (your choice, probably neut)

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

379 DPS at 20km
166 / 909 m/s
10.2 / 13.5 align time
66.7k omni EHP


[Apocalypse, Apocalypse fit]

Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Thermic Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Energy Collision Accelerator I
Large Energy Burst Aerator I
[Empty Rig slot]

456 dps at 61km
155 / 1046 m/s
9.32 / 14s align time
72.1k omni EHP


Interesting that the ABS is actually faster, eh? Align time is almost identical. Only 5k in EHP difference between them. The BS is less cap stable and has worse tracking, but far better projection and dps. The BC can get BS-like tank but loses it's mobility. The ABS can get BC like mobility but loses it's massive tank. Once again, these are things I threw together quickly and are not optimized. The difference between BC and BS is not as big as you seem to think it is.

Overhaul Dscan!
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-03-11 00:35:12 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Ines Tegator wrote:
Perhaps some of these ships need tweaking, but the role the OP is asking for already has several platforms dedicated to it. New ones are not needed.
Name one, and no the Apocalypse is not one. It is an attack ship, what I am propposing is anything but.



Recons.....you are just making them bigger and tankier.

You side stepped making a second scorpion by making the new caldari BS a shield repper. So logistics. To be honest to keep this consistent you should have just proposed scorpion just got changed to hybrids. Here is why as I see what you are doing here.

Caldari has an ecm BS, this is a why no e-war for the rest of us idea. You are fixing this...and now introducing (cheap) shield BS logistics so now people will complain about that as BS logistics now jumps from a vanilla tier 1-3 BS to pirate nestor. Bit of a price jump there and armour peeps will complain that its not fair they pay more for it.

You also have not stated tier level. If 1 or 2 these would be cheaper potentially than recons. Even if tier 3 price break may not matter. As the tank may be worth a few extra million.

Recons lank of tank (by and large, arazu bait fit can push out some ehp iirc) is thier design tradeoff. rapier/huginn can and will slow you down. If by some chance you live to close on it its usually threadbare tank has it dying fast and easy. Your king sized huginn/rapier ghetto BS would not have have this issue nearly as bad.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#17 - 2014-03-11 00:48:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Op, you do know BS tank is not that much better than BC/Cruiser tank right? Once you take into account mobility also.


Bufferwise this is true, active tanks, however, are massively stronger and more neut-resistant on BS hulls than cruiser ones.

Active local tanks are a bit of a niche case but these ships would do it well.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-03-11 02:53:51 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
A brick with high mobility and low dps? There are BC's for that.
That exactly and no there aren't. Those BCs are more mobile and a lot flimsier, and probably hit harder too.



Zan Shiro wrote:
Recons.....you are just making them bigger and tankier.

you should have just proposed scorpion just got changed to hybrids.

armour peeps will complain
1.) yes, like a big tanky recon. Also slow (in comparison to a recon) and different in style. Also tech 1. And lots of other big differences.

2.) I'd rather propose scorpion be changed into a skirmish battleship. It's about as durable as one, might as well have the mobility to boot. I wouldn't mind taking off a mid slot to do it, or a low slot works too. Heck it pretty much IS a skirmish battleship already. Just a tad on the slow side is all.

3.) the fits I suggested were just that--suggestions. I didn't go into detail about the possible disruption battleship for each race, and the logi battleship for each race, and the exploration...didn't even do one of those. I like disruption battleships anyway. Logi battleships would be great though.



Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Bufferwise this is true, active tanks, however, are massively stronger and more neut-resistant on BS hulls than cruiser ones.

Active local tanks are a bit of a niche case but these ships would do it well.
^ ^ this exactly ^ ^

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2014-03-11 03:01:32 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
[quote=Ines Tegator]A brick with high mobility and low dps? There are BC's for that.
That exactly and no there aren't. Those BCs are more mobile and a lot flimsier, and probably hit harder too.


My Prophecy gets close to 100K EHP with a plate and thats while running twin reppers.

You really seem to be just describing a variant of the resist bonused (Drake/Prophecy) Battlecruisers.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-03-11 04:36:11 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
You really seem to be just describing a variant of the resist bonused (Drake/Prophecy) Battlecruisers.
With a lot more powergrid.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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