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Crime & Punishment

 
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Ganking is PVP

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412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-03-11 02:13:50 UTC
As a fellow Champion of Highsec, i too proclaim my love of unconsensual miner PVP is still PVP (Person vs Person)

Kazumi Amaterasu you seem as though you have been hurt in this game, however your attitude and what you have said in your posts is laughable.

It is also important that all take note, this type of attitude will never make you a true champion of highsec, like loyal,myself and all the members of The Conference Elite. Capt Starfox, does however get a special mention as another Champion Of Highsec.

412nv Yaken
Enforcer of the Code / A True Champion of Highsec

A True Champion of High Security Space
FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#22 - 2014-03-11 02:35:41 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Cold
Personally I believe that high sec is too safe, especially when you consider all of the tools a miner has at his disposal to avoid being ganked.

I've felt for a while that concord response times should be lengthened by 15-20% and that the security penalty for podding should be the same as making an unlawful attack against ships.

Furthermore, I believe that there should be a set of criminal specific skills aimed at making ganks/theft/shenanigans a true profession, backed up by a specialized set of skills, like every other aspect of the game.

Edit: Moreover, even though I haven't been in my particular craft for that long, you wouldn't believe some of the horrible things that miners say! Truly terrible.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-03-11 02:37:11 UTC
Non-consensual PVP is core EVE gameplay. It's always legit, 'making a profit' isn't really necessary to make it acceptable.

And even if it were, don't fall into the carebear trap of equating profit with ISK.

In a sandbox that encourages everyone to set their own goals: improving killboard stats, a friendly 'let's see who kills more miners' competition, attempting to 'control a highsec system' by killing everybody, analyzing CONCORD response times, perfecting catalyst fits, you name it; are all perfectly legitimate reasons to blow up other people's spaceships in highsec.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#24 - 2014-03-11 03:15:33 UTC
Its the carebear of pvp.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
FT Cold
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#25 - 2014-03-11 03:22:43 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Cold
Agondray wrote:
Its the carebear of pvp.


Nonsense. Any pvper with a brain is going to commit to fights that he think he can win. If he can't, hes gonna bugger out. This goes for all realms of EVE pvp. Duels, station games, hot drops, high, low, null, wh, small gang, fleet, pick the fights you know you can win.

How is ganking different? If you try it sometime you'll find that, especially when solo, ganking requires a great deal of patience, timing, and knowledge of the game. Most of the pvp for gankers happens long before the safeties are disabled and you mash f1. Its planning, scouting, checking eft, knowing what targets you can and can't engage- just like any other pvp.

It's easy to spout out some slapshod one sentence cliché about literally anything in this game, but nine times out of ten, if you try what your crapping all over, its usually a little more involved then you thought in the first place. Except for mining. Big smile
412nv Yaken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-03-11 03:46:11 UTC
Agondray wrote:
Its the carebear of pvp.


My friend, I just looked at your killboard, the Carebear of PVP is white knighting on -10 characters in high sec, such as your kill of whoring on a D400 kill last month in udema

Such a throw away line and you are the very example of your own quote. SMH

412nv Yaken
The Peoples Champion Of HighSec / Enforcer of the code



A True Champion of High Security Space
Rhiannon Marius
Marius Family Enterprises Unlimited
#27 - 2014-03-11 05:10:53 UTC
I have a miner/industrial toon. He has never been ganked. Why? Because he flies a brick tanked skiff when mining and pays attention. Ganking miners is PvP and there is a chance you are going to lose your ship every time you undock. If someone were to bring enough to blow up my ship I'd give em a good fight because they earned it.
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-03-11 05:11:36 UTC
I've tried to explain this in my own "High-sec ganking" thread but due to a steady din of attempts to shout me down I will mention it here also .

The single thing BIG difference between ganking in hi-sec and anywhere else in all of EvE is the fact that gankers in throwaway ships like catalyst destroyers and T3 battlecruisers [ their known ships of choice ] outfitted with cheap T1 mods can move freely and with impunity through hi-sec space like wolves in sheep's clothing . Sneaking up on the unsuspecting simply because of the overwhelming amount of ships in high-sec systems . This gives them an unfair advantage over everybody but the most attentive and knowledgeable players in the game and sometimes even they get caught . It is unfair that a new player or even a veteran should have to incorporate any of their gametime fun to looking out for these underhanded tactics . One poster called it the "carebear" of PvP ...and he was absolutely right ! Gankers stop trying to candy coat it with lame claims that you're teaching new players how to play or that you're some kind of "saviors" of high-sec . You just like easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship like the other 3 types of EvE space .
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#29 - 2014-03-11 05:15:58 UTC
Kazumi Amaterasu wrote:
It is griefing.

He had no reason to single out that person and attack him. Did he loot the wreck, I highly doubt it. Did he scare other miners away, no. Are other miners "learning" anything? No.

It's funny, when you go to places in space where PVP is expected, the community is totally different - people actually have constructive conversations and get to know the community. In high-sec on the other hand, people have learned to keep their mouth shut and do their best to keep themselves out of these griefers sights. It's crazy... Noone really interacts in high-sec outside of their corporation or alliance... at all. Thanks to low life people that spend their time griefing others...

If CCP made ALL space like lowsec/null "griefing" wouldn't exist.



As someone who has about a billion ISK in minerals at the moment and about five billion more (not a huge amount) in tech 1 player-produced goods where almost all of the value is minerals, anyone that is mining unharmed is actively harming me through their involvement in market PVP.

I hate griefers that just spend their whole day mining, harming the profits of innocent people like me that just want to do industry. Fortunately, I take action about it and blow their spaceships up wherever possible.


Keep aggrevating me, and I might just run a locator agent and pay you a visit sometime.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#30 - 2014-03-11 05:16:05 UTC
Matogg wrote:
You just like easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship like the other 3 types of EvE space .


Confirming that no one ever uses any T1 hulls outside of highsec.

Oh, wait...

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Matogg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-03-11 05:21:54 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Matogg wrote:
You just like easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship like the other 3 types of EvE space .


Confirming that no one ever uses any T1 hulls outside of highsec.

Oh, wait...


LOL well lets just say that they don't gank in hi-sec with T2 hulls . They should try though !
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#32 - 2014-03-11 05:24:54 UTC
Matogg wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Matogg wrote:
You just like easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship like the other 3 types of EvE space .


Confirming that no one ever uses any T1 hulls outside of highsec.

Oh, wait...


LOL well lets just say that they don't gank in hi-sec with T2 hulls . They should try though !


Yeah, and that's not what you said.

"easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship"

They fly economical ships and fittings because they have no choice in the matter. CONCORD will destroy their ship, 100% of the time.

If there were some margin for error (or for pilot skill) in the matter, you might see more variety. But that's hardly the gankers' fault.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Capt Starfox
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-03-11 05:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Starfox
Matogg wrote:
I've tried to explain this in my own "High-sec ganking" thread but due to a steady din of attempts to shout me down I will mention it here also .

The single thing BIG difference between ganking in hi-sec and anywhere else in all of EvE is the fact that gankers in throwaway ships like catalyst destroyers and T3 battlecruisers [ their known ships of choice ] outfitted with cheap T1 mods can move freely and with impunity through hi-sec space like wolves in sheep's clothing . Sneaking up on the unsuspecting simply because of the overwhelming amount of ships in high-sec systems . This gives them an unfair advantage over everybody but the most attentive and knowledgeable players in the game and sometimes even they get caught . It is unfair that a new player or even a veteran should have to incorporate any of their gametime fun to looking out for these underhanded tactics . One poster called it the "carebear" of PvP ...and he was absolutely right ! Gankers stop trying to candy coat it with lame claims that you're teaching new players how to play or that you're some kind of "saviors" of high-sec . You just like easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship like the other 3 types of EvE space .


If you are a ganker and you are not using T2 modules, then you are training for T2 modules. Ship modules, as well as everything else, cannot be moved throughout highsec with impunity, this includes everyone. If someone is Freighter'ing >=1000m/isk worth of T2 modules and someone else decides they're a worthy target, then it's possible that Freighter will get ganked.

Eve is a sandbox. If you cannot handle this video game, if this video game is too tough for you, or you are unwilling to get through the learning curve without demanding CCP intervention, I hear the World of Warcraft is accepting new players all day, everyday. Eve Online get's easier when you try. It's simple once you understand it, but I'm not going to point it all out for you. Do your own research, hell even in this thread people have already handed out some tips.

Adapt, or die. It's that simple.

Abandon all hope ye who x up in fleet
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-03-11 05:54:20 UTC
Kazumi Amaterasu wrote:
It is griefing.

He had no reason to single out that person and attack him. Did he loot the wreck, I highly doubt it. Did he scare other miners away, no. Are other miners "learning" anything? No.

It's funny, when you go to places in space where PVP is expected, the community is totally different - people actually have constructive conversations and get to know the community. In high-sec on the other hand, people have learned to keep their mouth shut and do their best to keep themselves out of these griefers sights. It's crazy... Noone really interacts in high-sec outside of their corporation or alliance... at all. Thanks to low life people that spend their time griefing others...

If CCP made ALL space like lowsec/null "griefing" wouldn't exist.


So If I wardec you in the next few days am I grieving you because the war dec is based of your ******** notions on the forums?

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
loyalanon
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#35 - 2014-03-11 06:14:27 UTC
Matogg wrote:
I've tried to explain this in my own "High-sec ganking" thread but due to a steady din of attempts to shout me down I will mention it here also .

The single thing BIG difference between ganking in hi-sec and anywhere else in all of EvE is the fact that gankers in throwaway ships like catalyst destroyers and T3 battlecruisers [ their known ships of choice ] outfitted with cheap T1 mods can move freely and with impunity through hi-sec space like wolves in sheep's clothing . Sneaking up on the unsuspecting simply because of the overwhelming amount of ships in high-sec systems . This gives them an unfair advantage over everybody but the most attentive and knowledgeable players in the game and sometimes even they get caught . It is unfair that a new player or even a veteran should have to incorporate any of their gametime fun to looking out for these underhanded tactics . One poster called it the "carebear" of PvP ...and he was absolutely right ! Gankers stop trying to candy coat it with lame claims that you're teaching new players how to play or that you're some kind of "saviors" of high-sec . You just like easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship like the other 3 types of EvE space .


Thankyou for your input in this matter, however your logic is flawed.

I do not see the logic in using a T2 class ship that would have less dps/alpha then a 10mil t2 fitted catalyst.

Could you advise why I would want to use a T2 class ship when a cheaply fitted destroyer does the job perfectly?

Also if you bothered to read the thread instead of crying in it, you will notice that myself and any other fellow ganker that has posted in it we do not refer to ourselves as saviours of high sec. James 315 is our Savour and is the true saviour of high sec,

I like to refer to myself as a Champion of High Security space
Christian Lionbate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-03-11 06:33:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Christian Lionbate
The campaign for PVE EVE starts here. You'll have to ask nicely before they'll let you touch them Twisted
Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#37 - 2014-03-11 06:54:09 UTC
Kazumi Amaterasu wrote:
It is griefing.

He had no reason to single out that person and attack him. Did he loot the wreck, I highly doubt it. Did he scare other miners away, no. Are other miners "learning" anything? No.

It's funny, when you go to places in space where PVP is expected, the community is totally different - people actually have constructive conversations and get to know the community. In high-sec on the other hand, people have learned to keep their mouth shut and do their best to keep themselves out of these griefers sights. It's crazy... Noone really interacts in high-sec outside of their corporation or alliance... at all. Thanks to low life people that spend their time griefing others...

If CCP made ALL space like lowsec/null "griefing" wouldn't exist.


Because taking precautions such as fighting/mining aligned and checking D-scan for combat probes and those evil catalysts/Talos is hard right?

You do realize that this game is centered around PVP and no where in space is designed to be safe? Right?

I'm damn sure I learned some things being ganked in my first few weeks of playing eve, now I don't get ganked anymore. There is something to be learned from every ship that you lose, be it from not being aligned on a fleet warp, to having too many goodies loaded in your freighter, to being afk in space.

If I see one more "Whaaa I got ganked please nerf high sec PVP post" I'm going to lose it... Quite frankly I'm tired of hearing it. No one is forcing you to PVP in this game ever. But the responsibility of staying safe during PVE activities rest with you and not the devs... And to be honest its not that hard either >.>
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-03-11 07:42:33 UTC
Kazumi Amaterasu wrote:
Ganking is PVP - but what you did, killing that miner, is a form of PVP called griefing, which is a bannable offence. Unfortunately CCP chooses not to enforce their own rules in this regard. You had nothing to gain from destroying that miners ship except for the pleasure of causing him headache and lost time, which is griefing.



you are so full of **** it actually makes me sad.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#39 - 2014-03-11 08:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyth Nerun
Matogg wrote:
I've tried to explain this in my own "High-sec ganking" thread but due to a steady din of attempts to shout me down I will mention it here also .

The single thing BIG difference between ganking in hi-sec and anywhere else in all of EvE is the fact that gankers in throwaway ships like catalyst destroyers and T3 battlecruisers [ their known ships of choice ] outfitted with cheap T1 mods can move freely and with impunity through hi-sec space like wolves in sheep's clothing . Sneaking up on the unsuspecting simply because of the overwhelming amount of ships in high-sec systems . This gives them an unfair advantage over everybody but the most attentive and knowledgeable players in the game and sometimes even they get caught . It is unfair that a new player or even a veteran should have to incorporate any of their gametime fun to looking out for these underhanded tactics . One poster called it the "carebear" of PvP ...and he was absolutely right ! Gankers stop trying to candy coat it with lame claims that you're teaching new players how to play or that you're some kind of "saviors" of high-sec . You just like easy kills where you don't have to bring an expensive T2 ship like the other 3 types of EvE space .


My guess is you have never tried to actualy move around in highsec in a -10 char. Let's just say you have to know what you are doing, otherwise the faction police will kill your ship within seconds. It needs a lot of preparations and knowledge about the game mechanics in order to work.

If you would like to play eve in isolation without other players ruining your day I suggest you play on singularity if you don't care about the sandbox anyway. But you can't have it both ways and sell your stuff on a market that is driven by PvP including suicide ganking while opting out of it. EVE would simply not work that way.
Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2014-03-11 08:40:37 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
So If I wardec you in the next few days am I grieving you because the war dec is based of your ******** notions on the forums?


The Banteki guys could go live in a wormhole, hide in safe null-space or disband.
Whatever happens (my money is on disbanding) Mister Kane wins the thread and Hisec is a better place with less misguided trammelites in it.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment