Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Am i the only one who thinks the cruor changes are worthless ?

Thing is you have a bonus to web range now but your neut/nos still have that 6.5km range so whats the point of having long range webs if you have to get into unbonused web range to use the ship to his full potention which is neuting the **** out of other people's ships.

I personaly think that this "new flavor" cruor is already broken unless you give something else or give him a range bonus on neut/nos to ballance things out .

And that is what the proposed change corrects dammit. Fit a 10 MN AB and you are a mosnter on the new frigate. Fit a 100MN AB on the cruiser.. same effect.

Anyoen that thinks the new snasha ships are weak have no clue about small scale PVP.

Even if they aren't required to undock, they might as well either be worthless bonuses or mandatory because if they're any good at all they will be considered minimum standard.

I like the idea of a ship recieving bonuses from all racial skills, but I really dislike the idea at the moment due to the imbalance in pirate hulls.

For example, pirate ships get bonuses from the following skills (in brackets if Sanshas got bonuses from all races).

Gallente: 4 (5) - Serpentis, Angels, Sisters of EVE, Guristas, (Sanshas)
Minmatar: 3 (4) - Serpentis, Angels, Blood Raiders, (Sanshas)
Amarr: 3 (3) - Blood Raiders, Sisters of EVE, Sanshas
Caldari: 2 (2) - Guristas, Sanshas

At present there is a large imbalance in the pirate hulls to each race with Gallente granting access and bonuses to the most, and with Caldari only having two accessible pirate groups to choose from. Personally I'd like to see yet another Amarr-Caldari line to match the Serp/Angels, and a Caldari-Minmatar line to round things off, then maybe we could see a new line that is bonused by all four racial ship skills, as no race is left behind on the pirate front.

Indeed. I like the neut/nos change on them, but the web change is, in all honesty, a massive nerf to an already underpowered ship. Unless a range bonus is added to both the turrets and the neut/nos as well, then there is absolutely no point in a web range bonus. The ship must be setup for brawling or kiting, mixing the two does not work. This has been shown time and time again with previous ship bonuses that have since been revised.

This is even more problematic for the Ashimmu, a ship that already works very well in the role of heavy tackler. The ashimmu has low dps and a very average tank for a faction cruiser, but anything it touches is instantly brought to a dead stop, even interceptors. The proposed NOS change would fit in perfectly for it and I think have the desired effect. However, the web change cripples the ship. The ONLY thing it has going for it is the ability to tackle, it isn't going to win the gank/tank fight unless it's dps output is doubled. It is a support ship like a HIC, you don't want a fleet of them. Just 1 or 2.

Changing the web bonus from strength to range destroys that super tackle ability it currently has. At that point, it doesn't really offer anything not done better by other ships. The reason the web range bonus works on the Bhaalgorn is because large neuts and BS guns both work at the extended web range. That is not the case for frigate and cruiser class mods. Also, change the web range bonus on the Bhaalgorn to the strength bonus, no reason it should be left out on the awesome webs.

As far as frigates go the new cruor is completely useless completely agree. however in current warfare the ashimmu is the ONLY t1 cruiser that can survive in a t2 cruiser tank because of it being one of the hugest tanks for t1 cruisers.

For the new web bonus to work on the ashimmu it WILL need more mids and its gonna need a bigger bonus to the web range for this to ever be considered.

we already asked for another mid on the cruor to make the new bonus work but. we have yet to see this change

If you want a long range webber, bring a Rapier, Huginn, Loki or Hyena. The point of the blood raider ships is the powerful neuts + webs to completely incapacitate an enemy ship. In order for that to work, the ranges of the two EW systems must be more or less matched. Having 80km webs with 6 to 12km neuts/nos isn't overly useful as you can only use one bonus at a time in that case. Currently you can use both very well together. The 90% web at 23km (fed navy web + t3 skirmish links) allows you to crash any reasonable gap to neut/nos range in a matter of seconds. And once in neut range, that 90% web is still crippling.

If the bonuses are changed as proposed, we have the following:

1) A webbing Cruor or Ashimmu that doesn't even bother fitting neut/nos since it is kiting and will never get them in range.

2) A NOSing Cruor or Ashimmu that has a web but doesn't take advantage of the range bonus since all combat is within normal web range anyways.

See the problem?

The current Cruor is actually completely fine from a bonus standpoint. The real problem lies in a lack of slots and fittings. In order for our current Cruor to work, it needs a 4th midslot + the PG/CPU to fit a small t2 cap booster. It cannot gain that slot through losing one anywhere else, it's simply short a slot. With the NOS bonus, it doesn't need the cap booster or the 4th mid. And so with only the NOS change, the ship is basically fixed. It still isn't a great ship, but it has some uses. To be more useful it needs more damage output compared to the current one on the live server. 110 dps is a bit on the anemic side imho.

The Ashimmu requires no changes as it is currently performing very well. However, I don't think any would complain if the NOS change went through. It would be a double buff in fact, as it would allow for skipping the cap booster and thus be able to fit a pair of 90% webs. Now that is powerful indeed! The web range bonus swap would remove that new ability however as suddenly you'd need 2 webs to get almost the same effect. And the range bonus is, as stated numerous times, of no value to the Ashimmu.

Rattlesnake (worm and gila also) need a special bonus like other pirate bs.

Mach has cruiser hull speed + damage projection

vindi has top dps + 90% web

bhaalgorn has neut + web range

nightmare like the rattlesnake has nothing special but still worth aroudn 800 mil like other pirate bs.

If someone fly a pirate bs want to experience something can't achieve with t1 or navy ships.

Right now a rattlesnake has only tank, like a scorpion navy and a worse damage application than a t1 dominix or a cruiser hull like ishtar.

Give guristas and sansha ships unique bonuses that make them worth flying.

Right now rattlesnake/nightmare/gila/phantasm are bad copy of t1/t2 variants while pirate ships should be on top of perfomance.

The point you are wrong is on the ashimmu.


It will work ok aven better for the ashimu. THe problem is Nos and web bonus is not the range difference between then NOS and the bonused web. It is between the nso and the NON BONUSED web the enemy ship is using.

In the cruor that means that you web him first, but before you get in your small nos range, he webs you , and sicne you are NOT in a fast frigate, you will nto be able to push into the NOS range, therefore your nos is useless.

With the ashimmu this problem is near non existant, sicne the medium NOS and medium euts basically match non bonused web range. THat means you web enemy first and that gives you leverage to brign him into your neut range very fast and he cannot avoid it usign his own web.

Ashimmu will be very strong with this new set of bonuses.

The cruor.. will be dead.


Bhalghorns woudl have NO use at ALL for web strenght bonus. Neuts do nto track, therefore 90% webs are irrelevant. The bhallghorn just need to catch enemies passing by his neuts.

Givign 90% webs to bhaalghorn would be a huge nerf ..

That is complete lack of understanding of small scale cobmat (where the ashimmu will be used).

Have you even used an ashimmu? The web range bonus will be a HUGE buff to the ashimmu. Its largest problem nowadays is to CATCH its prey not to stop it compeltely (That the neuts will eventually do as well). The ashimmu is among the slwoest cruisers around, web range bonus will finally make it it useful against smart players in cruisers as well


There is a reason why we ( the corp) bought about 50 ashimmus when the changes were announced). BEcause they wil lbe come among the best ships for small gang combat (no small gang is not 50 peopel for you nullbearers, its 3 or 4 people). And we know a LOT about this small scale engagement stuff.

Just adding to that ashimmu, C-type med NOS is like 3mil buy-order currently. So you get your 16.5km BR nos to your 20km web, which isn't terrible afterall.