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Getting ganked on a closed Jita gate

First post
Author
E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#501 - 2014-03-07 21:41:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I could
…and yet you fail to do so.
Quote:
I have already traveled this road with you on several occasions always resulting in you me getting the topic locked.
Maybe some day you'll actually learn to provide those points and arguments rather than hope that abuse and fallacies will do the job for you. That way, the mods will not get fed up with your trolling and refusal to actually engage in the discussion at hand. You've seen it happen so many times and yet you're incapable of spotting the pattern.
Quote:
If you would like to read back thru the post to see where I disagree with you, please feel free to do so.
Already done. Already responded to. The ball is in your court. Point out what's wrong and what you disagree with (how and why would be bonuses, but I don't expect that much from you so you can skimp on those if you feel it's too much). Otherwise, we're back to the same unavoidable conclusion…


This is the same/same for you tippia. Just like now you would rather argue (The more obtuse the better) than discuss mechanics and game design.

I have stated my case and where I stand and where I feel the game could be improved and how the effect of jita population is not a game design or feature but a byproduct of game play and that people should not be able to take advatantage of that and say working as intended and last that every person ganked past present and future is not always at fault.

So here is where we part ways as you will ask for this same information previously provided over and over as you have done in other threads until you get the thread locked.

Here is where you apply you tired but tested trolling techniques and continue to try and win what you think is an argument instead of contributing anything other than your fabricated tipia facttiods.

Normally I would have blocked someone like yourself long ago but I refuse to stop pointing out your own special techniques to constantly abuse every poster and topic you don’t agree with.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#502 - 2014-03-07 22:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
This is the same/same for you tippia. Just like now you would rather argue (The more obtuse the better) than discuss mechanics and game design.
This is incorrect, of course. The problem is rather that you don't particularly care about bringing up game design and mechanics and prefer to go on long-winded rants based on hurt emotions rather than actual flaws in those designs. Hell, you can't even describe what the flaws are.

Quote:
I have stated my case and where I stand and where I feel the game could be improved and how the effect of jita population is not a game design or feature but a byproduct of game play and that people should not be able to take advatantage of that and say working as intended and last that every person ganked past present and future is not always at fault.
The effect of the pop lock is very much a game design choice, as is the workings of gates to locked systems. Moreover, regardless of whether it's an effect of design or gameplay (hell, even more so than if it's an effect of game play) why should people not be allowed to take advantage of it? If one player makes a bad decision, other players should be allowed to capitalise on that error.

As for who's at fault, the only way for it to not be the victim is if the victim is completely meaningless in proceedings. But there's the crux: if he's meaningless, he also can't die in anything that matters, and even then, he chose to fly such a worthless ship when he could have trivially chosen to fly something that doesn't die that easily.

All you're doing here is repeating stuff that has already been given a full response that you, in turn, can't respond to. So instead you turn to fallacies and abuse to cover for your inability to actually reply rather than just repeat.

So again, the ball is in your court. Point out what's wrong and what you disagree with or we're back to the same unavoidable conclusion…
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#503 - 2014-03-07 22:44:44 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
Tippia wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
LMAO do you ever read what you post? If so doesn’t it sound stupid even to you after you read it?

So you can't actually point to anything that's wrong or that you disagree with.

I could but you can only include 5 quotes and I have already traveled this road with you on several occasions always resulting in you getting the topic locked. So not worth the time or effort.

If you would like to read back thru the post to see where I disagree with you, please feel free to do so.

don't forget: this is Tippia.... don't expect anything smart from this person

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#504 - 2014-03-08 11:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
You know if you don't present a reliably profitable target the odds of getting ganked drop dramatically right?

People will count on you dropping half the value of your cargo on death. Alphanado costs ~70 mil. Two alphanados will reliably deal 10k EHP in damage, with a single alphanado capable of 10k damage alone if the shot is perfect. Amend the formula for whatever may gank you but alphanados are pretty common given how much damage they can deal in an extremely short time frame.

So here's the formula of death:

((Isk value of your cargo / 2) - (70 million X 2 X every 10k EHP your ship tanks))

If that formula comes out less than 0 the gankers will likely lose money on the exchange and won't even look at you twice (until you undock from 4-4 again obviously). If the formula comes out greater than 0 you may be a gank target and the higher it goes above zero the higher your gank chance becomes. The chance may drop if you are carrying only one really valuable item which makes it a big risk to the ganker that it will die in the fire. Alternatively put your stuff in cargo containers so a ship scanner can't see it.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#505 - 2014-03-08 11:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I have stated my case... that every person ganked past present and future is not always at fault


Yes they are, 100% and the sooner people who are ganked accept that view, the sooner they begin to think differently and actively manage the risk.

While anyone who loses a ship looks to others to blame, it's the same as saying "it wasn't may fault, there was nothing I could do".

There is always something someone can do to protect themselves and that always starts with accepting that when you lose a ship it was 100% your own fault.

After that point, lack of avoidance and proper defense is only a matter of laziness.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2014-03-08 12:22:21 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
You know if you don't present a reliably profitable target the odds of getting ganked drop dramatically right?

my killboard has lots of empty pods, shuttles and rookie-ships.

It's not that i like to kill.

It's just because mostly i have no time to do any checks. I see target and i need to kill it before faction NPC gets me. And when my 1% of kills gets hundreds of million ISK or good drop it makes ignoring of such targets just stupid.

So nope. It's not just about you.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

E-2C Hawkeye
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#507 - 2014-03-10 05:34:03 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:
I have stated my case... that every person ganked past present and future is not always at fault


Yes they are, 100% and the sooner people who are ganked accept that view, the sooner they begin to think differently and actively manage the risk.

While anyone who loses a ship looks to others to blame, it's the same as saying "it wasn't may fault, there was nothing I could do".

There is always something someone can do to protect themselves and that always starts with accepting that when you lose a ship it was 100% your own fault.

After that point, lack of avoidance and proper defense is only a matter of laziness.

No...sadly this is not true or factual. The only way to 100% avoid a gank is to stay docked. Sure there are many methods to help lower your chances of getting ganked and you may do them all yet still get ganked.

That's just the simple truth.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#508 - 2014-03-10 06:17:13 UTC
E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

No...sadly this is not true or factual. The only way to 100% avoid a gank is to stay docked. Sure there are many methods to help lower your chances of getting ganked and you may do them all yet still get ganked.

That's just the simple truth.


If it were possible to avoid all ganks structurally, then there would be no point performing any probabilistic safety behaviors at all, and this would be not be a game.

In any case I am quite sure the tools available are sufficient to prevent a player ever needing to seriously risk any common method of gank, or in fact any method of gank that is currently practiced in highsec. IMO it is quite possible that even should a ganking group decide that they must gank me personally, they may fail every single actual attempt as its extremely personnel prohibitive to cover all the methods I have at my disposal to avoid them at once, and they may not know which set of tools i'll use on any one flight.

In any case it is necessary to be able to gank NPC corp players, otherwise all highsec logistics would be performed under false flag security thus offered (as it is, this is something I can and do make use of, since I am inconveniently a wartarget to half the wardeccing for profit population of the galaxy at any one time).
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#509 - 2014-03-10 07:01:10 UTC
I like how people believe I can somehow log in while I'm at work or during random times during the day. Prime-time hours are called prime-time hours because there literally the only free time I get to play Eve. Saying that I should play at another time because the game doesn't work when I am able to play is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#510 - 2014-03-10 10:20:23 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
I like how people believe I can somehow log in while I'm at work or during random times during the day. Prime-time hours are called prime-time hours because there literally the only free time I get to play Eve. Saying that I should play at another time because the game doesn't work when I am able to play is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard.


because you can't possibly buy stuff whilst parked 1 jump out of jita, and you can't possibly get redfrog to deliver it to you, or even get some random to do it with collat.

When I make a JF contract with the alliance service, I have an expectation that it will turn up somewhere in the next 1 hour to 14 days.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#511 - 2014-03-10 10:27:45 UTC
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:
I like how people believe I can somehow log in while I'm at work or during random times during the day. Prime-time hours are called prime-time hours because there literally the only free time I get to play Eve. Saying that I should play at another time because the game doesn't work when I am able to play is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard.


And we're back to the part where people inform you that other systems have a market besides Jita.

If you're truly pressed for time, it would make sense to stop beating your head on the brick wall of Jita, and try less saturated markets.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Alyssa Wyatt
Bazinga Labs
#512 - 2014-03-10 10:44:03 UTC
Not sure if been mentioned yet, but ,if you're selling, there are numerous traders who will happily buy your wares from neighbouring systems to a hub (I myself being one of those), so check the market and see what you can sell for around the same costs as inside the hubs without actually entering
Also, there are channels for you to bulk sell stuff without having to enter hubs as well

If you're buying wares, look at another hub, or (as already suggested) find someone who will move it for you during the quiet times when you're offline, realistically you only need it moving 1 jump - from the hub to a system next door for you to move rest of the way when you're online, so the cost isn't wallet breaking unless you're wanting to shift large m3 cargo that will require multiple trips
Hell, if you have friends/trusted corpies who are online during the quiet times, ask them to make a trip for you
Kiryen O'Bannon
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#513 - 2014-03-10 12:56:40 UTC
The gate is not doing what its supposed to do. Its specifically not doing what its supposed to do, so that the system of Jita does not start doing things it shouldnt do, with far worse consequences.

Gankers can enjoy it while it lasts, but they are not entitled.to nonfunctioning gates to get easy kills. when its eventually remedied, it will not be a nerf.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.

Aimy Maulerant
DDo Squad Gaming
#514 - 2014-03-10 13:05:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Aimy Maulerant
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
The gate is not doing what its supposed to do. Its specifically not doing what its supposed to do, so that the system of Jita does not start doing things it shouldnt do, with far worse consequences.

Gankers can enjoy it while it lasts, but they are not entitled.to nonfunctioning gates to get easy kills. when its eventually remedied, it will not be a nerf.


the gate is doing what its suppose to do, its suppose to lock when it gets to busy and thats exactly what its doing.

why should people get preferencial treatment because they dont pvp or want to auto-pilot everywhere to make isk, gankers make isk from hitting vulnerable people and jita gate is good for the isk, everyone knows this so why not just go to a different system instead of whining about gettineg ganked on a gate you know closes