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A Bridge to Nowhere...

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Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#1 - 2014-03-09 13:12:32 UTC
I have often thought about this myself and would like to know others' opinions on the subject. Why is it that Titans and Black Ops can create a "bridge" with only 1 end? Surely a real bridge requires 2 ends, otherwise it doesn't go anywhere does it.

How would it affect the game if Jump Bridges needed 2 bridge capable ships at either end to make them work?

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Dave Stark
#2 - 2014-03-09 13:13:31 UTC
it does have 2 ends, but that doesn't stop a road with 2 ends being a 1 way road.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#3 - 2014-03-09 13:19:56 UTC
I do support what OP want to suggsest but this change would only support in one Hand the more Alt mechanic and on the other would be simply annoying to left something expensive behind.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-03-09 13:43:38 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:


How would it affect the game if Jump Bridges needed 2 bridge capable ships at either end to make them work?



All of a sudden, the only people using bridges would be the biggest groups.
Rendiff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-09 13:46:35 UTC
How would get the second bridge ship into the system in the first place, and how would you get it out?
Dave Stark
#6 - 2014-03-09 13:47:56 UTC
Rendiff wrote:
How would get the second bridge ship into the system in the first place, and how would you get it out?

jump to a cyno.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#7 - 2014-03-09 13:50:45 UTC
Rendiff wrote:
How would get the second bridge ship into the system in the first place, and how would you get it out?


Seems like the idea is to prevent instant power projection. Either jump your titan into a system where a fight will occur or jump to a titan a few jumps away and fly in via gates.

Unless there is some fundamental flaw I'm missing I don't dislike the idea, other than it seriously hurts lowsec alliances who do not have swaths of renter space or regions full of R64s to afford an armada of titans.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Dave Stark
#8 - 2014-03-09 13:56:38 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Rendiff wrote:
How would get the second bridge ship into the system in the first place, and how would you get it out?


Seems like the idea is to prevent instant power projection. Either jump your titan into a system where a fight will occur or jump to a titan a few jumps away and fly in via gates.

Unless there is some fundamental flaw I'm missing I don't dislike the idea, other than it seriously hurts lowsec alliances who do not have swaths of renter space or regions full of R64s to afford an armada of titans.


other than jumping 1 titan in first, then a few seconds later your whole fleet follows it through. nothing changes.

also the fundamental flaw is that now small entities (not just low sec entities) will have a harder time keeping up with big ones because they now need two titans to bridge a fleet, not just one.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2014-03-09 14:05:55 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:


How would it affect the game if Jump Bridges needed 2 bridge capable ships at either end to make them work?



All of a sudden, the only people using bridges would be the biggest groups.


Unlike the rich political mosiac we have today?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-03-09 14:10:30 UTC
This is actually a neat little idea.

Yes, smaller groups would be having a hard time but at the same time larger ones would have to field their titans in open space making them vulnerable and thus, maybe, reducing their numbers in total.

97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,

"DO A BARREL ROLL!"
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#11 - 2014-03-09 14:14:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:


How would it affect the game if Jump Bridges needed 2 bridge capable ships at either end to make them work?



All of a sudden, the only people using bridges would be the biggest groups.


Unlike the rich political mosiac we have today?


While you have a point, there are more things than just titan bridges maintaining the 3 coalition rule of nullsec. The main concern of nerfing titan bridges (which I do support as long as it is done responsibly) is that it hurts smaller null and lowsec alliances moreso than the massive power blocks of nullsec.

Goonswarm Federation just told its members to start training for titans if they can. Requiring two titans to make a bridge instead of one would hurt smaller alliances that are less able to afford 250b more than the establishment. I can't believe I just made an argument against nerfing power projection...

I like this idea, but there is probably better solution out there. I'm rather partial to the idea of having a fleet "moor" onto a titan, then the titan jumps to the cyno, bringing the fleet with it. It has the same impact, forcing people to risk their titans, but doesn't double the amount of isk needed to bridge.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Rendiff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-03-09 14:21:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Rendiff wrote:
How would get the second bridge ship into the system in the first place, and how would you get it out?

jump to a cyno.


Oh right there's still jump drives.... It might be too early for me to be on the forums. Ugh
Dave Stark
#13 - 2014-03-09 14:35:44 UTC
Rendiff wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Rendiff wrote:
How would get the second bridge ship into the system in the first place, and how would you get it out?

jump to a cyno.


Oh right there's still jump drives.... It might be too early for me to be on the forums. Ugh


don't worry, you should see some of my early morning posting.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#14 - 2014-03-09 14:43:51 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I'm rather partial to the idea of having a fleet "moor" onto a titan, then the titan jumps to the cyno, bringing the fleet with it. It has the same impact, forcing people to risk their titans, but doesn't double the amount of isk needed to bridge.

That's a very cool idea. +1


I sympathise with concerns that certain changes would impact smaller entities more than it would the big power blocs, but isn't that always the case? And even if there was a way to nerf large entities without nerfing smaller ones, would it be fair or balanced to penalise players for creating large-scale organisations?

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#15 - 2014-03-09 14:53:48 UTC
I know i will drop a bomb but could someone please Tell me what is the Problem with "Power Projection" i know sorry i am dumb but anyone pls?

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#16 - 2014-03-09 14:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftstrike1
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I know i will drop a bomb but could someone please Tell me what is the Problem with "Power Projection" i know sorry i am dumb but anyone pls?

The problem is that it's too quick to move 1,000 players in whatever ships from point A to point B that might be 50+ jumps away by stargate. This makes it possible for a coalition to mass all of their assets in one place (making it nigh impregnable) while still having the ability to deploy an overwhelming force on the other side of New Eden ridiculously quickly.

For the sake of a real world analogy, it's like the US being able to put a million boots on the ground anywhere in the world within an hour. Terrifying and more than a little broken.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-03-09 15:07:04 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I know i will drop a bomb but could someone please Tell me what is the Problem with "Power Projection" i know sorry i am dumb but anyone pls?


People make a 2000 man fleet. Fight a battle vs 500 and then 2 hours later can fight another 500 3 regions away with little to no gate to gate jumping. Being able to teleport '000's of ships favours massive blocks and tends to a tripolar world much akin to that in the novel 1984.
If a way was found to nerf power projection then people postulate that many smaller entities could rise up and take constellations without the fear that people living 3 regions away would bring their whole coalition and take it away again.
Whether this is true or not i don't know. But if a way could be found to make smaller groups more relevant within small areas of space many people would be happy.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#18 - 2014-03-09 15:15:47 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
I'm rather partial to the idea of having a fleet "moor" onto a titan, then the titan jumps to the cyno, bringing the fleet with it. It has the same impact, forcing people to risk their titans, but doesn't double the amount of isk needed to bridge.

That's a very cool idea. +1


I sympathise with concerns that certain changes would impact smaller entities more than it would the big power blocs, but isn't that always the case? And even if there was a way to nerf large entities without nerfing smaller ones, would it be fair or balanced to penalise players for creating large-scale organisations?


Not my original idea, I'm sure there've been several post proposing it before me. It is the best idea I've heard on reducing the power of titans though.

Silvetica Dian wrote:
Being able to teleport '000's of ships favours massive blocks and tends to a tripolar world much akin to that in the novel 1984.


The CFC is blue with -A-, therefore the CFC has always been blue with -A-.
+1 for the 1984 reference Big smile it really is the best way to sum up nullsec politics, a three coalitions run by egotistical dictators constantly backstabbing each other, and as soon as one dies a new one rises in its place.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-03-09 18:40:11 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:


How would it affect the game if Jump Bridges needed 2 bridge capable ships at either end to make them work?



All of a sudden, the only people using bridges would be the biggest groups.


Unlike the rich political mosiac we have today?



At least it's remotely possible to drop on fleets these days. Pipebombing, ratter ganking, catching stragglers, they'd all ceaseto exist if you needed to jump in a titan to bridge.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#20 - 2014-03-09 18:45:18 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
At least it's remotely possible to drop on fleets these days. Pipebombing, ratter ganking, catching stragglers, they'd all ceaseto exist if you needed to jump in a titan to bridge.

These only cease to exist when you are operating in a larger area than you can project your power in. It would then be restricted to areas where you have a presence. You are basically explaining why current magnitude of power projection is a issue.

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