Intergalactic Summit

When the CEP and the Senate agreed the Caldari Prime DMZ, and agreed to have dual sovereignty on Caldari Prime. Should it also included dual sovereignty for the Luminaire solar system.

CEP agreed that the Gallente distrcits will be considered full citizens of the Federation and fall under Federal law. Agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens on the planet with Mordus Legion solely responsible for defense and policing of the planet.

Without dual sovereignty of the Luminaire solar system, only the Gallente citizens are protected once they leave the planet. Many Caldari citizens have to run the gauntlet of trying to evade the Federation navy trying to kill them, when wanting to go down to the planet or leave due to bad security standings with the Federation.

As the agreement stands at the moment without dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system, we have agreed to the security and safety of the Gallente citizens and the Federation have carte blanche to kill Caldari whenever they want.

So should the CEP and the Senate look to amend the treaty and include dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system into the treaty.

No, sorry, you don't get to openly support murder and slavery, act apologist for a terrorist organisation, name your own corporation after that selfsame terrorist organisation, serve in a militia that's openly attempting to seize control of sovereign Federal worlds that the State has never and will never have a claim to, associate with and encourage a rogue State capsuleer who advocates wholesale genocide, work up a huge negative standing with the Federation and then have the gall to whine that you can't enter our space to visit a planet that - let us not forget - regardless of any argument over who should actually own it, your nation violated almost every treaty and agreement that you'd ever signed with the Federation and nearly every clause of the CONCORD founding charter to seize control of by ramming a gigantic military fleet into our sovereign space.

Caldari Prime is rightfully a Caldari planet, but Luminaire is rightfully a Federation system. The Gallente were busy exploring it before your people had split the atom or my people had developed a steam turbine. Regardless of how strong a claim the State has to the planet, expecting the Federation to cede control of any territory so deep within its own borders is asking much - but for Caldari Prime itself, I believe such a price is easily worth paying if it will bring greater peace and understanding between our two nations. But demanding - or hell, for that matter, even politely asking - that they cede the entire system to dual-nation management is an utter absurdity.

Thanks to the recent demilitarisation of the planet's aerospace and the surprisingly even-handed security provided by neutral operator Mordu's Legion, any Caldari who isn't actively hostile to the Federation can freely visit their ancestral homeworld with very little issue - in fact, so far as I'm aware, that's actually part of the terms of the agreement. I very deeply hope that in the fullness of time, the State can be granted full, unconditional control of the planet and its immediate aerospace, which would finally allow for relationships between our two nations to be normalised.

Perhaps if you want to visit Caldari Prime, you should leave the militia, train Diplomacy, start running some agent missions for the Federation and repair your damaged standings. Believe it or not, that's actually what I did when my standing with the State dropped dangerously low.

Stitcher-Haan i do not understand why you would oppose the idea of dual sovereignty for Luminaire solar system. Im not saying that the Gallente homeworld should be any less secure. It should be able to have just the same security it has now, as it would with dual sovereignty.

It would guarantee the safety of the Gallente citizens in the Luminaire solar system as well as Caldari citizens. We guaranteed the safety of the Gallente people on Caldari Prime. Caldari citizens need the same security from the Federation navy when travelling in the Luminaire solar system. Dual sovereignty would meet this purpose, and stop Federation navy from attacking Caldari citizens.

I dont know why you would be against a solution that prevents the deaths of Caldari citizens by the Federation navy, when they visit the homeworld.

It is hard to guard against terrorists attacks. If they are determined to do something they usually find away. Again i dont see why having dual sovereignty should make the system any less secure, or make terrorist attacks be more likely to happen than they already are.

How long will this treaty last, if the Federation navy are allowed to continue killing Caldari citizens visiting and leaving homeworld. Isnt this aggression of the Federation navy against Caldari citizens in the solar system not likely to bring violence back down to the planet.

Shouldnt dual sovereignty of the Luminaire solar system be the next step in the peace process

We don't exactly have a sterling record of keeping our agreements with the Gallente. I'm surprised they're being as gracious as they are now that they don't have to be (under threat of the Leviathan). Probably not brilliant to test the limits of their hospitality.

I can certainly appreciate for the time being the need for a Dual Sovereignty agreement on Caldari Prime, especially in regards to the non-capsuleer population living on the planet.

Suggestions however, of making the entire Luminaire system fall under dual sovereignty are ludicrous at best, and such ideas should not even be entertained. Dual Sovereignty over the entire system would only be an open invitation to extremists and create a powder keg of a situation.

The Federation Navy's responsibility in the system is to protect the sovereignty of The Federation, it's assets, travelers who are not hostile, and to enforce the laws of the Federation.

As Mr. Ixiris has already pointed out, why should hostiles or those who harbor hostilities against The Federation be allowed safe passage in the Luminaire system?

No.

Sticher and Ixiris put it perfectly. I can't contribute much to this conversation other than reminding you how bad of an idea this is. So without further ado...

This idea is bad and you should feel bad.

I could turn that around Noden, why should hostiles or those who harbor hostilities against the Caldari be given dual sovereignty and security in our homeworld.



Dont talk to me about unreasonable demands Andreus. The Gallente have never been entitled to rule or hold sovereignty over Caldari Prime. After Heth retook back the planet for the State all we have heard from the Gallente are demands for us to hand back control over to them.

The Senate didnt agree to give half of Caldari Prime to the State. The CEP agreed to give half the planet to the Federation. The planet was never conquered. So their was no magnanimous gesture from the Senate. Caldari State had full control of the planet. We gave the Gallente dual sovereignty on our homeworld even though they are hostile towards us. We have guaranteed their security on the planet even though they are hostile towards us. Yes the CEP have been very magnanimous towards the Gallente and the Senate.

Now Caldari citizens need to be given the same security in the Luminaire solar system as the Gallente receive on Caldari Prime. This continued attacking of Caldari capsuleers and Caldari citizens by the Federation navy is unacceptable. To say that it is acceptable reeks of hypocrisy. This killing of Caldari by the Federation navy is reminder of the first Gallente , Caldari war and the blockades, and the attacks we suffered back then by the Federation navy.

I dont see why you Gallente would be against dual sovereignty. To say that you would be less secure and vulnerable to extremeists is fallacy. Continued killing of Caldari citizens in the Luminaire solar system is not helpfull for lasting peace on Caldari Prime. With dual sovereignty there would be no killing of Gallente or Caldari citizens in the solar system just like the situation on the ground on Caldari Prime. Maybe this could be the final step to a lasting peace.

No you didn't. After the Shiigeru and Octopus Squardon was destroyed during Operation Highlander, the Federation obtained full space superiority over Caldari Prime. Had it desired to, it could most likely have seized control of the entire planet without leaving anything for the State. At that point the State did have a narrow advantage on the ground, but that wouldn't have been sustainable with no orbital support and no way to reinforce or resupply ground forces. The Senate could have organised such a reconquest (I'm not going to insult the Caldari I respect by calling it a "liberation.") but they didn't. They sought the best agreement they could think of that could secure a reasonable guarantee of safety for the billions of Federal citizens on Caldari Prime without kicking the war with the State into even higher gear.


They already have it.


Again, the Federation Navy is not just randomly attacking Caldari citizens. At all. It is only attacking capsuleers who are actively hostile to the Federation, which means that they're doing their job. Note that this does not simply apply to capsuleers in the State Protectorate - it also applies to pilots of the 24th Imperial Crusade (who are equally if not more unwelcome in Federal space) and unaligned pilots who have nonetheless demonstrated sustained and specific hostility towards the Federation and its interests.

Let me make this very clear - if you're a capsuleer and the Federation Navy is shooting at you whenever you try to enter Federal space, you didn't end up in that position by accident.


Firstly, I'm not Gallente, I'm Intaki, and it would behoove Provists to understand this distinction when attempting glib forms of address. Secondly, Federal loyalists are against dual sovereignty in the Luminaire system because it's our system, and demanding that we cede total control of it is entirely unreasonable because unlike Caldari Prime itself, the State has no reasonable claim to it. I would be all in favour of returning sovereignty of Caldari Prime to the State in its entirety, but there are a lot of complex political issues - not least a war of aggression which, while eagerly continued by Roden's corrupt government, was indeed started by the State, even if it was under Heth's equally corrupt command.

I mean, let's just clarify something here, Horn - your suggestion won't ever be implemented. Let's just take a moment to acknowledge that fact, alright? It's not going to happen.

I feel like you're talking to an imaginary audience instead of the people in this thread, because your rhetoric is trying to appeal to a demographic that quite bluntly does not exist. The only families who are losing loved ones are those of crewmen aboard the ships of capsuleers who have become Federal persona non grata. These people are:

a. not exclusively Caldari, as there are hundreds if not thousands of non-Caldari capsuleers who have accrued enough negative standings with the Federation to make themselves unwelcome, and even the crew onboard Caldari starships purchased in Caldari territory is never guaranteed to be 100% Caldari.
b. almost always well aware of the risks that their family were taking.
c. probably going to be aware that the capsuleer got his day ruined for entering Federation space when he wasn't welcome there.

Like I've said before, Horn, if you want to visit Federation space without risk, drop membership in the militia and grind a few agent missions.


No. I don't think the Provists had anything to do with this treaty.