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Dev blog: Ship Painting Pilot Program

First post First post First post
Author
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#581 - 2014-03-08 03:44:24 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
8mill is not a crippling amount of isk,
On a 500k hull? Of course it is - unless you're one of EVE's mega-rich.
No, it's really not. The vast majority of eve's population makes that up trivially. It doesn't really matter what the hull cost is since it's a luxury item and thus not aimed at people who only have the income to support T1 frigates in game.

Oraac Ensor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Also, no, asking people what they want will not reflect results as accurately as simply placing them out there. Putting your test case out there will always yield more accurate results and reach a wider sample than a survey will.
It would show what is the best method to put out to trial, instead of the misconceived shot-in-the-dark we have in this pilot.
You will run up against the fact that only a subset of people will answer the survey and the inherent likelyhood of false information both intentional and not. This on the other hand involves the entire player base and is self advertizing as well as being a completely accurate representation of at least this limited subset and price point.
Oraac Ensor
#582 - 2014-03-08 03:46:36 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Email surveys are so Twentieth Century.

Oh, dear . . . here endeth all sensible discussion.
Oraac Ensor
#583 - 2014-03-08 04:05:31 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
8mill is not a crippling amount of isk,
On a 500k hull? Of course it is - unless you're one of EVE's mega-rich.
No, it's really not. The vast majority of eve's population makes that up trivially. It doesn't really matter what the hull cost is since it's a luxury item and thus not aimed at people who only have the income to support T1 frigates in game.
Why should it be a luxury item?

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
You will run up against the fact that only a subset of people will answer the survey and the inherent likelyhood of false information both intentional and not.
I can only reply as I did above:
Oraac Ensor wrote:
If that were true then no consumer or political survey ever conducted would have any value.

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#584 - 2014-03-08 04:10:38 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
Why should it be a luxury item?
Considering it has no performance effect, how can it be anything but a luxury item? Also why shouldn't pricing reflect the truths of in game income levels?

Oraac Ensor wrote:
If that were true then no consumer or political survey ever conducted would have any value.
Considering the ease of manipulating favorable results based upon the development of the questions, I'd say this is 100% correct.
Sieges
#585 - 2014-03-08 04:47:33 UTC
I vote for the idea of a "paint-job-slot" so that non-dockable ships could be "painted". Removing the "rig" would destroy the paint job and return your ship to its virgin state and allow it to be painted again with a different color. Also a preview of the paint job in the ship fitting window (prior to paint-rig insert) would be sweet.
X Alias
Twin Tech
#586 - 2014-03-08 04:55:23 UTC
Just want a little spot where can have corp or alliance logo. That would be cool.
RUS Comannder
Writing Memoirs
#587 - 2014-03-08 05:12:25 UTC
Mark me down in the scientific sampling as "Facepalm".

You pay people to solve problems. Please put more effort in that area and automatically exclude any initiative containing words like "pretty" "looks better" or any adjectives you can think of which are used to describe appearance. Look for adjectives which describe "function", "or getting it right this time".

If you have hired a bunch of employees skilled at pixel painting, fire, or retrain them to program solutions to existing problems, to anticipating future problems, lurking variables, unintended consequences of everything you are about to unleash on us. I can think of a time or two when you guys might have said something like, "Didn't see that coming". Well, Why not? Too many people throwing lines of code in to get the market ID right on a paint job?

There are a crap load of games out there which have nothing else going for them beyond the paint jobs and we all know they won't be around 11 years. I think you want 11 more at least, so - Keep the focus on what has brought you success and think of ways to do THAT BETTER - Internet Space Ship Game - Say it out loud three times.

Get rid of the dozens of bots I see on every log in. I know that when I bring up Jita chat logs from two different days and find the same characters posting the same posts at the same intervals (within a second on your timecode) and with the same typos for over 12 hours, probably more as I'm just going with the time I turn on and turn off my computer.... Crime Watch needs to stop watching and start doing something more than every two or three years and thinking you have solved the problem. That is the same thinking as, "I'm going the have the best meal I've ever had and then I'll never have to eat again." DO IT, even if it ticks off "important players" who have a sub just as I do.

Good luck with it. I certainly have an interest in your success, but I think you are tossing a cement life jacket to the dying Aurum program. Saving an unforeseen mistake... again. Who came up with the welding goggles idea?

sigh... Thanks...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#588 - 2014-03-08 07:12:20 UTC
Ersahi Kir wrote:
I'm excited for the custom skins, but I think the implementation is needlessly complex. I think this feature will succeed or fail based on the price point CCP sets though. If I can get 50-100 paint jobs for a plex I think it will be a success, if I only get 20 I think it will fail.

But I have to question the implementation. It seems like it would've been much more simple if it would've been a (rig like) "paint job slot."


1 PLEX per ship that you want to paint.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

GeeShizzle MacCloud
#589 - 2014-03-08 08:16:21 UTC  |  Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ersahi Kir wrote:
I'm excited for the custom skins, but I think the implementation is needlessly complex. I think this feature will succeed or fail based on the price point CCP sets though. If I can get 50-100 paint jobs for a plex I think it will be a success, if I only get 20 I think it will fail.

But I have to question the implementation. It seems like it would've been much more simple if it would've been a (rig like) "paint job slot."


1 PLEX per ship that you want to paint.


You should refrain from talking on a public forum unless you know what you're talking about, instead of spreading disinformation.

the paint costs a fraction of a PLEX to purchase from the NEX store, sooo many people have aur left over from various in game situations, although if you dont you'd have to potentially sink a PLEX into the NEX store to get aur, the aur you'd get would cover multiple ships so its most definitely NOT 1 PLEX per ship.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#590 - 2014-03-08 08:49:38 UTC
No brainer for me rly.

Ships look more diverse and some even cooler and ability to fly under different color or specific one is huge.

Hope this get well and that same "pilot" start being applied to all things visual from new ships to making variations of old ones.

Looking at that mael pic cant help but think if forward wings went in back and small back ones put in front under nasty angle would be awesome looking ship.would pay shitton for something like that.

republic fleet tempest mark one with square wings bring it on baby.

Hyperion look badass.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Lacid Onex
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#591 - 2014-03-08 10:39:59 UTC
Oh goodie. Think this is my first time posting on the forums - after a year this is the right time. Games that feature customization options for your player/equiptment attract me more than say, a linear story with progressive unlocks, which is why we all are here in this sandbox i think. So, from a standpoint as simple as logic, it makes sense there would be, in the universe, a myriad of ships with similar designs to the original. We have ships like the skinned iterons, the catalysts, the white thrasher, that are all similar or identical to the counterpart in all functions. To those who play the speadsheets, there is no appeal. But to the sandboxers, the roleplayers, and the people with ISK burning in their wallets, its a touch that adds a MUCH needed depth to the game.
Eve is progressive. It is growing. As it expands less and less from being a game and more and more into a full universe, we must discern where the line of capsuleer influence is drawn. Again - I love the customizing things. But the capsuleers cant paint their own ships. There will be tiny curse words, genitalia, product advertisement skins, and worse. It will take a great concept and allow it to be ruined, exploited, or maybe just irk out some of the more conservative pilots. But I think the freedom to paint on our ships is too far outside the scope of what this universe can handle. I think this new skinning device should drive the meta - the lore, backstory, whatever you call it. Celebrate the great contributers to the community with this new device too even.
Here is my proposition, my ideal. Launch the skins. Launch a handful for each race. Thank you. But make them as if they were a unique line from a specific manufacturer. The nefantar thrasher is the prime example of how these skins should be treated to truly make the most of this program. They were sold reskinned to represent the minmatar tribe they were once owned by - with a historical backstory to boot. If the next line of ships represented the different available manufacturing NPC corps in a slightly unique way - they could be seeded into the market logically and regulate prices on shiny ships/aurum. They could possibly only be seeded in limited runs each day, allowing the natural influx of demand to raise early prices without drastically impacting the aurum - isk market and bringing capsuleer market competition to the edge with these luxury items. As it stands it looks like that is the course this is going. Last i knew, krusual and aliastra were faction specific ship makers. But don't push these as some great memento, issued to "limited pilots", sell it like they sell the breast cancer cars (pink stripe and an extra few thousand bucks, no big deal right?).
As is, I dont LOVE the blueprint plan, but i suppose it works pretty well and "portable pain" is a cool idea. LP exchange mechanics work well too, and maybe some of the even LESS fancy "designer ships" can come out purely on market as normal competition to the capsuleer market.
I have another idea. Now this may not roll as well, so lets call this my "outline for discussion". Launch skins for ships made my NPC corps to celebrate certain player organizations. Aideron, Mittani, TEST GOON shuttles abound! sure its a graphical pain, technical limitations havent been considered for a second.
Closing this first hella post up - I trust you CCP. But since this is a PURELY for looks mechanic, this IS your game, your universe, and it has come so far. With a mechanic that is sparking so much fanfare, please take two things into account. What would really happen if this wasnt a game? What are the most logical economic represcussions within the universe to the involved exchange currencies?
Thank you
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
#592 - 2014-03-08 12:09:35 UTC
Let me add my two cents here as well, although it probably has been said a few times already.

First, I really like the idea of being able to paint your ships. However the pricing and manner in how this test is being executed worry me a bit - after all, the test isn't going to show if people want ship paints, it'll show if people want these specific ship paints. I might not be excited about this particular kin, but I might be willing to shell out cash for a different one.

Second the pricing seems off for me. While I can easily afford the prices as stated I am not willing to pay that amount of cash for something that only looks pretty. And besides that it also makes me a more attractive target - pun intended.

I really want to see painted ships. I want to see ships being customized, sporting the corp logo and maybe color-coded for the alliances. I want them to have a bunch of slots so you can apply different colors and schemes, and I want to see that all over EVE.
But - if that makes you a target, if it encourages people to kill you because they know it's expensive - I doubt there will be much demand for it.

So go ahead and try. I might even buy a ship or two to encourage CCP to implement the real deal. But at these prices I probably will never use those ships if there is the slightest chance of them being killed. And that's a shame, because painted ships should be the rule, not the exception.
OSGOD
Siren's calll
#593 - 2014-03-08 12:27:42 UTC  |  Edited by: OSGOD
LMAO I thought CCP was dedicated to solving the lag issue which since it was improved has since the rubicon patch , gone back to 2007 lag times and this is a backward step, now your going let painted ships into game this will be another slap at lag the bandwidth hog is going to cost us all as CCP wont replace dc`d lost ships now , they deny their is a problem even when ping plotter and similar programs show massive packets loss from ccp server at time of dc , PAINT + lots of lost ships to lag well done CCP the only business on the planet apart from Japanese nuclear industry that actually prides itself in going backwards.

I am all for painting ships but only when for instance I have ping of 30 from country (Australia) , after painted ships are introduced ping now on fibre connection is 259 get real or get people into dev that know what they are doing
Maul555
Xen Investments
#594 - 2014-03-08 12:41:15 UTC
Confirming that I am going to buy that painted Hyperion because it looks good and I want to support the pilot program.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#595 - 2014-03-08 13:24:23 UTC
OSGOD wrote:
LMAO I thought CCP was dedicated to solving the lag issue which since it was improved has since the rubicon patch , gone back to 2007 lag times and this is a backward step, now your going let painted ships into game this will be another slap at lag the bandwidth hog is going to cost us all as CCP wont replace dc`d lost ships now , they deny their is a problem even when ping plotter and similar programs show massive packets loss from ccp server at time of dc , PAINT + lots of lost ships to lag well done CCP the only business on the planet apart from Japanese nuclear industry that actually prides itself in going backwards.

I am all for painting ships but only when for instance I have ping of 30 from country (Australia) , after painted ships are introduced ping now on fibre connection is 259 get real or get people into dev that know what they are doing



You do know that /this/ solution for painted ships will introduce absolutely no server side load what so ever? From the servers perspective, it's one small number rather than a different small number.

Sure, your /client/ has a little more work to do, but it's trivial.

The probable end solution for this will be maybe 2 or 3 more small numbers per ship, which only get sent on grid load.

We're not going to see complete custom ship painting with a paint brush. That's never going to happen. What we may see is 'main areas this color and pattern, with highlights of this color'

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#596 - 2014-03-08 14:44:28 UTC
My wallet is ready! \o/

I will definitely be supporting this pilot program. Yes, I wish this was a bit more substantial but I can completely understand the baby steps after the Incarna month of rage. But let be fair here, Incarna rage was about 1 single player room that added next to nothing to the game and $70 monicals. What ever the long term vision for EVE was at that time, not enough tangible progress was felt by us players for the hours of Dev time that was placed into Incarna for something that really wasn't going to affect us for at least another expansion development cycle.


This on the other hand is a step into the right direction IMO. Customisation of ships is something that has not been possible until now. To the nay-sayers, this pilot program literally has to be what it is here. Anything more would require an exponentially increasing investment in developer time and would need to pass through the great art department bottleneck. This is a change that if it goes through, would mean the move to V4 while V3 is not yet finished.

Personally, I am going to be looking for excuses to fly these ships in the future. There is finally something in the NEX store that I want to spend my money on. I only wish I still had some CONCORD LP left so I could fly around lowsec, tackling things and playing the part of bad cop.


WOOPWOOP!
Cuchulain Spartan
Unlimited 2.0
Infinite Pew
#597 - 2014-03-08 15:16:59 UTC
Why not just come up with lets say 20 different patterns, zebra stripes, leopard spots, digital camo, checkered, etc etc etc. Allow any of the patterns to be applied to any ship in a "spray paint shop" in station. Make the patterns a "paint by numbers" pattern and then allow colours to be applied to the paint by numbers.

Fifa Soccer did this years ago on the Mega Drive (Genesis) for uniform design. Its simple and easy and would allow for loads of combinations. Skip all this blueprint nonsense and just charge something fair per ship lets say 1mil per BS, 500k per BC etc. That way people can pimp their ride multiple times a day and CCP can soak up all those iskies.

Spart

Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#598 - 2014-03-08 15:30:05 UTC
Cuchulain Spartan wrote:
Why not just come up with lets say 20 different patterns, zebra stripes, leopard spots, digital camo, checkered, etc etc etc. Allow any of the patterns to be applied to any ship in a "spray paint shop" in station. Make the patterns a "paint by numbers" pattern and then allow colours to be applied to the paint by numbers.

Fifa Soccer did this years ago on the Mega Drive (Genesis) for uniform design. Its simple and easy and would allow for loads of combinations. Skip all this blueprint nonsense and just charge something fair per ship lets say 1mil per BS, 500k per BC etc. That way people can pimp their ride multiple times a day and CCP can soak up all those iskies.

Spart


But i don't want this " zebra stripes, leopard spots, digital camo, checkered, etc etc etc.".
I want skins like Kor-Azor, Sarum, Sebastior Tribe, Brutor Tribe, Roden, CreoDron, Su-ve, KK, etc and so on.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Breidablik
Doomheim
#599 - 2014-03-08 15:31:31 UTC
Please update the corp logo system, add more customization, and strictly regulate alliance logos, before you make it an option to add to ships.

I don't see how 'Confederation of XXXPIZZAXXX' or whatever the f*** made it through the approval process. What's the point of EVE with factions and a story, if there's spaceships flying around with pizzas or cats on them. Very game breaking. Might as well have a Space Balls MMO so all these kids who think it's cute can f*** right off.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#600 - 2014-03-08 16:02:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyancat Audeles
EOH made ALL POSSIBLE SHIP TEXTURES ALREADY!

Check out this link!
http://www.eohgames.com/labs/Ships/

I, for one, LOVE the EoM Oracle...

Ship paint will bring a much needed sense of personalization to each ship we put time and effort into...