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Titan Class Industrial
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Cyrus Ildemar
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-03-05 01:17:02 UTC
same mineral value as a titan
can carry 10+ freighter loads
same range as a JF
better boosts than a rorq

be a great way to make nullsec industry worthwhile.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2014-03-05 01:20:10 UTC
Way too big. And say that with emphasis.
Cyrus Ildemar
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-03-05 02:21:44 UTC
why? nullsec indy is broken because of the logistics to move all the minerals. Its easier to produce stuff in HS and so no one produces stuff in 0.0. With this building in null would be viable.
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-03-05 02:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Cyrus Ildemar wrote:
why? nullsec indy is broken because of the logistics to move all the minerals. Its easier to produce stuff in HS and so no one produces stuff in 0.0. With this building in null would be viable.

I'll pretend this is not a trollthread for a minute, and assume the idea stems from a total lack of understanding about mineral compression, mineral usage, and the like.

A: If CCP wants to make it so that more industry is done in nullsec, allowing an easier method to move stuff from highsec is about as ass backwards as it's possible to get.

B: Module mineral compression already permits compression loads of 20-30x minerals/m3 from refined mineral state. A humongous 10x freighter indy that can only haul ore or minerals is only slightly more capable of hauling minerals than a single JF full of 425 railguns. That's 7-10 million m3 of minerals moved per JF run. If it's not ore/minerals only single run of a ship like you are proposing carrying compressed minerals could carry 170-255 million m3 in a single run using current compression techniques. Crazy, huh?

C: Are we suddenly permitting ships the size of titans into highsec? No? then how do we propose to load this up? Using JF's to go back and forth to load it? Ewww...

D: Can it dock? I doubt it. Glad to hear you not only need to both ferry all the ore into it trip by trip at a POS, but that you also need to ferry stuff out of trip by trip from a POS.

TLDR: No.
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-03-05 04:06:51 UTC
you're not being enough ambitious with the idea, i'd do it like this:

1. same mineral cost as a titan
2. can bridge industrial ships (barges/exhumers, haulers, freighters, shuttles,orcas, rorquals)
3. same situation as other supercaps (has to be parked in a forcefield or docked in an array)
4. more cargo than an orca, less cargo than a carrier, has an small fleet hangar and a mantainance bay
5. has a siege module that allows to transform it in a mobile POS, while is active the ship will give power to POS modules and will be able to interface them, doesnt need a moon in order to cover it. it will have a large forcefield in order to protect itself and the modules, but has larger fueling costs than a large POS tower.

i would call it, "Aspidochelone" class, an ore based Capital Industrial, the Aspidochelone was a mythical creature similar to a whale that could be mistaken as an island, the idea of the Aspidochelone class is to give support to alliances as a mobile starbase, while the alliance creates its own network of POSes and Outpost, the Aspidochelone will give support for industrial operations of any kind......it will allow to bride capital industrials as the rorqual, while the rorqual and the orca take command of the mining OPs, and Carriers/Supers of the clone vats, the Aspidochelone will be in charge of refining, invention, reactions and manufacture by being in siege mode....
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#6 - 2014-03-05 08:11:18 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
you're not being enough ambitious with the idea, i'd do it like this:

1. same mineral cost as a titan
2. can bridge industrial ships (barges/exhumers, haulers, freighters, shuttles,orcas, rorquals)
3. same situation as other supercaps (has to be parked in a forcefield or docked in an array)
4. more cargo than an orca, less cargo than a carrier, has an small fleet hangar and a mantainance bay
5. has a siege module that allows to transform it in a mobile POS, while is active the ship will give power to POS modules and will be able to interface them, doesnt need a moon in order to cover it. it will have a large forcefield in order to protect itself and the modules, but has larger fueling costs than a large POS tower.

i would call it, "Aspidochelone" class, an ore based Capital Industrial, the Aspidochelone was a mythical creature similar to a whale that could be mistaken as an island, the idea of the Aspidochelone class is to give support to alliances as a mobile starbase, while the alliance creates its own network of POSes and Outpost, the Aspidochelone will give support for industrial operations of any kind......it will allow to bride capital industrials as the rorqual, while the rorqual and the orca take command of the mining OPs, and Carriers/Supers of the clone vats, the Aspidochelone will be in charge of refining, invention, reactions and manufacture by being in siege mode....

This would break fleet fights. We're losing? OK no problem, deploy the mobile 'nobody wins' forcefield.

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#7 - 2014-03-05 08:40:56 UTC
The Problem is that the Industrial Ship line is already complete, we do have, Miner, Hauler and a "Base" to compres the ore, Explorer and Guards are already there too.

Every new Ship would simply make one of this Classes meaningless if its better.

And adding Stuff for the sake of "something new" isnt helpfull, dunno what "we" (i am not an Industrial) could really need.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2014-03-05 09:22:25 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
The Problem is that the Industrial Ship line is already complete, we do have, Miner, Hauler and a "Base" to compres the ore, Explorer and Guards are already there too.

Every new Ship would simply make one of this Classes meaningless if its better.

And adding Stuff for the sake of "something new" isnt helpfull, dunno what "we" (i am not an Industrial) could really need.

That being said, the "Base" could use some lovin
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2014-03-05 14:09:05 UTC
The way to fix industry in eve isn't a new ship, it's rethinking the mineral requirements so that null sec industry can operate independently of high sec. Right now high volumes of high sec ore is often times the choke point for production, so you either have to ship the smaller amount of null sec ores to high sec, or you have to ship high volumes of high sec ore to null sec.

As far as the ship goes I want to see what CCP does when they get to the orca and rorq before introducing another ship to the mix. I also don't see much use for a industry super unless it could shut down a gate, which wouldn't be broken or abused in any way.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2014-03-05 14:35:41 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Cyrus Ildemar wrote:
why? nullsec indy is broken because of the logistics to move all the minerals. Its easier to produce stuff in HS and so no one produces stuff in 0.0. With this building in null would be viable.

I'll pretend this is not a trollthread for a minute, and assume the idea stems from a total lack of understanding about mineral compression, mineral usage, and the like.

A: If CCP wants to make it so that more industry is done in nullsec, allowing an easier method to move stuff from highsec is about as ass backwards as it's possible to get.

B: Module mineral compression already permits compression loads of 20-30x minerals/m3 from refined mineral state. A humongous 10x freighter indy that can only haul ore or minerals is only slightly more capable of hauling minerals than a single JF full of 425 railguns. That's 7-10 million m3 of minerals moved per JF run. If it's not ore/minerals only single run of a ship like you are proposing carrying compressed minerals could carry 170-255 million m3 in a single run using current compression techniques. Crazy, huh?

C: Are we suddenly permitting ships the size of titans into highsec? No? then how do we propose to load this up? Using JF's to go back and forth to load it? Ewww...

D: Can it dock? I doubt it. Glad to hear you not only need to both ferry all the ore into it trip by trip at a POS, but that you also need to ferry stuff out of trip by trip from a POS.

TLDR: No.


thread over

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-03-05 14:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
As far as the mineral separation goes that is intentional I believe, as is the requirement to get moon goo goods from low/null if you want to do tech II manufacture in hisec.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#12 - 2014-03-05 14:45:25 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
As far as the mineral separation goes that is intentional I believe, as is the requirement to get moon goo goods from low/null if you want to do tech II manufacture in hisec.


IMO moongoo is one of the big issues with nullsec industry. Minerals can be sourced locally fairly easily in null through loot reprocessing and mining, but if you actually want to build stuff you need to import massive amount of high-value moongoo from Jita to nullsec.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Torijace
The Upside Down
#13 - 2014-03-05 21:38:19 UTC
It seems to me like industrial capitals would be a nice addition to eve. I'm not sure if an industrial titan should be the first step.. maybe industrial dreadnaughts that enter siege cycles for serious m3 minage.. One thing they are going to to need to do to make industry viable in null is to put a lot more low end ores in null sec.. otherwise i don't think its ever going to catch on.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#14 - 2014-03-05 22:01:35 UTC
Torijace wrote:
One thing they are going to to need to do to make industry viable in null is to put a lot more low end ores in null sec.. otherwise i don't think its ever going to catch on.


They already did this.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Throktar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#15 - 2014-03-05 23:32:34 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Silivar Karkun wrote:
you're not being enough ambitious with the idea, i'd do it like this:

1. same mineral cost as a titan
2. can bridge industrial ships (barges/exhumers, haulers, freighters, shuttles,orcas, rorquals)
3. same situation as other supercaps (has to be parked in a forcefield or docked in an array)
4. more cargo than an orca, less cargo than a carrier, has an small fleet hangar and a mantainance bay
5. has a siege module that allows to transform it in a mobile POS, while is active the ship will give power to POS modules and will be able to interface them, doesnt need a moon in order to cover it. it will have a large forcefield in order to protect itself and the modules, but has larger fueling costs than a large POS tower.

i would call it, "Aspidochelone" class, an ore based Capital Industrial, the Aspidochelone was a mythical creature similar to a whale that could be mistaken as an island, the idea of the Aspidochelone class is to give support to alliances as a mobile starbase, while the alliance creates its own network of POSes and Outpost, the Aspidochelone will give support for industrial operations of any kind......it will allow to bride capital industrials as the rorqual, while the rorqual and the orca take command of the mining OPs, and Carriers/Supers of the clone vats, the Aspidochelone will be in charge of refining, invention, reactions and manufacture by being in siege mode....

This would break fleet fights. We're losing? OK no problem, deploy the mobile 'nobody wins' forcefield.




I really like your idea. As far as being worried about the shield, make it to where only industrial ships can pass through it and they have to be in a fleet with it. It can reinforce like a POS, but will have to be defended from the outside because no combat ships will be allowed in the bubble. I would not allow it to online guns or cloning bays.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2014-03-05 23:59:49 UTC
Throktar wrote:


I really like your idea. As far as being worried about the shield, make it to where only industrial ships can pass through it and they have to be in a fleet with it. It can reinforce like a POS, but will have to be defended from the outside because no combat ships will be allowed in the bubble. I would not allow it to online guns or cloning bays.



So what happens if you deploy it on top of five hundred battleships? Do they all bounce off at 3000 m/s, thus ending the fight anyway?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2014-03-06 00:20:58 UTC
Cyrus Ildemar wrote:
why? nullsec indy is broken because of the logistics to move all the minerals. Its easier to produce stuff in HS and so no one produces stuff in 0.0. With this building in null would be viable.

Why not have more ways to get the materials in nullsec? I am a firm believer in the idea that nullsec should farming materials and transporting them to highsec (or just keeping them and making highsec poor), not the other way around. I feel that absolutely everything highsec has in terms of material resources should be in much greater abundance in nullsec.

Also, you should fix the jump range of your proposed titan. The difference between its jump range and that of a Jump Freighter should be proportional to the difference in jump range between a Dreadnought and a Titan.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-03-06 00:22:07 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Throktar wrote:


I really like your idea. As far as being worried about the shield, make it to where only industrial ships can pass through it and they have to be in a fleet with it. It can reinforce like a POS, but will have to be defended from the outside because no combat ships will be allowed in the bubble. I would not allow it to online guns or cloning bays.



So what happens if you deploy it on top of five hundred battleships? Do they all bounce off at 3000 m/s, thus ending the fight anyway?
Howabout instead it can't erect the shield if ships not allowed in the shield are near the titan?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-03-06 00:25:24 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Throktar wrote:


I really like your idea. As far as being worried about the shield, make it to where only industrial ships can pass through it and they have to be in a fleet with it. It can reinforce like a POS, but will have to be defended from the outside because no combat ships will be allowed in the bubble. I would not allow it to online guns or cloning bays.



So what happens if you deploy it on top of five hundred battleships? Do they all bounce off at 3000 m/s, thus ending the fight anyway?
Howabout instead it can't erect the shield if ships not allowed in the shield are near the titan?



Then it's pretty much useless...
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#20 - 2014-03-06 11:24:42 UTC
Ships will be trapped in the Capital Forcefield. Problem solved.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
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