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Machariel fit isn't working, Please Help !

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Theragor
#1 - 2014-03-05 14:09:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Theragor
Right now I am doing L4s shield tanking with most my shield tanking skills a little low, and yes I know its not optimal but even with these skills I should be able to do L4s pretty easily right? Well I am currently having trouble doing them since I have to constantly run my xtra large shield booster and even then I am getting damaged faster than it can heal.

I am coming from armor tanking a Navy Apoc and when I was tanking with that I could just sit there and tank everything without a thought while blowing enemies out of the space time continuum. While I am still able to kill them pretty fast I just can't tank the damage even while speed tanking. Please help I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

High power
7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
1x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Medium power
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x 100MN Afterburner I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II (using 800s)
1x Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
1x Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Low power
4x Gyrostabilizer II
3x Tracking Enhancer II

Charges
160x Phased Plasma L
1,482x Titanium Sabot L
1,000x Fusion L

Drones
14x Warrior II
5x Salvage Drone I

Since people have not seemed to see my reply stating my new build it is as follows:
High power
7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I

Medium power
1x Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
1x Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
1x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Pith B-Type EM Ward Field
1x Pith B-Type Thermic Dissipation Field

Low power
3x Gyrostabilizer II
1x Damage Control II
3x Tracking Enhancer II

Rig Slot
3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Charges
1,477x EMP L
Drones
6x Warrior II

This build is working pretty well for me and I haven't had any problems with it so far.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2 - 2014-03-05 14:17:06 UTC
replace a gyro with a damage control.

Upgrade your hardeners for dread guristas or better, because they're a lot worse than t1.

Consider upgrading to a cheap pith c-type XL booster for better cap efficiency.

Lose the meta0 afterburner for at least a meta one (experimental 100mn one or something)

Make sure you're shooting the right ammo. EM/Thermal hardener means you're tanking sansha/blood so you should be shooting EMP L. That kind of fit doesn't work as well if you are doing poor dps, which could be an issue with your skills or an issue with ammo type.

get better skills.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Theragor
#3 - 2014-03-05 14:24:52 UTC
I was shooting the right ammo it was just equipped and not in my inventory, just got done doing a mission so I didn't have extra on me. My damage is fine its just my tanking, I will try upgrading my mods when I get the chance though I do not think it will help enough. If I am getting damage faster than I can repair with a meta 4 booster while I am constantly using it then I think that the problem extends past that. Right now I pull about 600dps (with drones) and I am still leveling up my skills so that number will keep rising.
Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-03-05 14:25:50 UTC
[Machariel, Mission Mach]

Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Damage Control II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Tech 2 Mission specific resist
Tech 2 Mission specific resist
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Fusion L
Auto Targeting System I

Large Projectile Burst Aerator II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
[Empty Rig slot]


Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5
Salvage Drone I x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5

Learn to pulse your booster. Train for T2 Tank, at least.

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Theragor
#5 - 2014-03-05 14:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Theragor
Ayeshah Volfield wrote:

Learn to pulse your booster.


I'll try pulsing after I upgrade my hardware since I would die if I tried to now. Sad
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-03-05 14:39:37 UTC
sounds like it just a skill thing hows about going back to your armor ship until ur shield/ projectile skills are better?
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2014-03-05 14:42:33 UTC
Theragor wrote:
Right now I am doing L4s shield tanking with most my shield tanking skills a little low, and yes I know its not optimal but even with these skills I should be able to do L4s pretty easily right? Well I am currently having trouble doing them since I have to constantly run my xtra large shield booster and even then I am getting damaged faster than it can heal.

I am coming from armor tanking a Navy Apoc and when I was tanking with that I could just sit there and tank everything without a thought while blowing enemies out of the space time continuum. While I am still able to kill them pretty fast I just can't tank the damage even while speed tanking. Please help I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

High power
7x 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I
1x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I

Medium power
1x X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
1x 100MN Afterburner I
1x Heavy Capacitor Booster II (using 800s)
1x Limited Thermic Dissipation Field I
1x Limited 'Anointed' EM Ward Field

Low power
4x Gyrostabilizer II
3x Tracking Enhancer II

Charges
160x Phased Plasma L
1,482x Titanium Sabot L
1,000x Fusion L

Drones
14x Warrior II
5x Salvage Drone I


Have you considered the fact it's not the fit, or the ship but simply your skills at this time? Risking an expensive hull without a full tech 2 tank is not a good idea. Park the ship, get back in to Apoc till you can use the ship correctly. Problem solved.
Theragor
#8 - 2014-03-05 14:47:39 UTC
Rumini wrote:
Have you considered the fact it's not the fit, or the ship but simply your skills at this time? Risking an expensive hull without a full tech 2 tank is not a good idea. Park the ship, get back in to Apoc till you can use the ship correctly. Problem solved.

Well would an extra 5% resist make that big a difference and +100 hp with booster? Also I sold my apoc to afford the mach. What?
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#9 - 2014-03-05 14:50:47 UTC
Aim to over tank than slowly drop the cap mods in low as you get better

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#10 - 2014-03-05 14:51:46 UTC
I can't say how much TE changes crippled damage application but before it happened my mach could start blapping rats at locking range which I had around 90km or maybe even little more. Not many rats can do anything substantial to you at this range, and those able to do it have quite low ROF (amarr BS for example) so if you move and keep transversal high you should be able to kill enough stuff to mitigate incoming damage enough to close range and finish harder rats.

And definitely get your skills up because 600dps including drones is frakking low for a mach, you should be able to pump 700-800 from guns alone. In mach your tank is mainly gank and speed with bursts of shield booster to survive initial damage while you are maneuvering out of rats ranges.

Invalid signature format
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#11 - 2014-03-05 14:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Some good feedback above.

A question. If you find that right now your problems come from bad shield tanking skills, why not use an Armor Mach until you have those trained up? Here is a fast example...

[Machariel, Armor]

Centus B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Corpus C-Type Heavy Nosferatu

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Theragor
#12 - 2014-03-05 14:58:54 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
I can't say how much TE changes crippled damage application but before it happened my mach could start blapping rats at locking range which I had around 90km or maybe even little more. Not many rats can do anything substantial to you at this range, and those able to do it have quite low ROF (amarr BS for example) so if you move and keep transversal high you should be able to kill enough stuff to mitigate incoming damage enough to close range and finish harder rats.

And definitely get your skills up because 600dps including drones is frakking low for a mach, you should be able to pump 700-800 from guns alone. In mach your tank is mainly gank and speed with bursts of shield booster to survive initial damage while you are maneuvering out of rats ranges.


For the speed do you keep the AB on because that kills my cap. I usually just use it if I need range, either positive or negative. And I've been upgrading skills that effect large projectile turrets, I leveled up 2 skills and the dps already went up near about 100 dps.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#13 - 2014-03-05 15:00:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Theragor wrote:


For the speed do you keep the AB on because that kills my cap. I usually just use it if I need range, either positive or negative. And I've been upgrading skills that effect large projectile turrets, I leveled up 2 skills and the dps already went up near about 100 dps.


Oh then, there is your problem. The Machariel is the fastest battleship, and also the one with the smallest signature. You don't run it like a Navy Apoc, but you keep moving at all times. Its speed and low signature aids a lot in damage mitigation, and combined with its good gank makes a very sturdy missioner.
Theragor
#14 - 2014-03-05 15:04:06 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Some good feedback above.

A question. If you find that right now your problems come from bad shield tanking skills, why not use an Armor Mach until you have those trained up? Here is a fast example...

[Machariel, Armor]

Centus B-Type Armor EM Hardener
Core C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script
Cap Recharger II
Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Cannon I, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Corpus C-Type Heavy Nosferatu

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Ill probably try something like this, though I will probably use tech 2 instead of faction/deadspace stuff since its usually cheaper.TY
Theragor
#15 - 2014-03-05 15:09:10 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Theragor wrote:


For the speed do you keep the AB on because that kills my cap. I usually just use it if I need range, either positive or negative. And I've been upgrading skills that effect large projectile turrets, I leveled up 2 skills and the dps already went up near about 100 dps.


Oh then, there is your problem. The Machariel is the fastest battleship, and also the one with the smallest signature. You don't run it like a Navy Apoc, but you keep moving at all times. Its speed and low signature aids a lot in damage mitigation, and combined with its good gank makes a very sturdy missioner.


Well yeah I keep moving but if I keep my AB on it kills my cap, as in it takes it down to near a quarter.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#16 - 2014-03-05 15:13:09 UTC
One quarter? Whats you afterburner and fuel conservation skills?
Theragor
#17 - 2014-03-05 15:17:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Theragor
Horrible never trained em XD never had to use an AB with Amarr. (except in pvp)
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#18 - 2014-03-05 15:23:22 UTC
Well...there you have it..XD

A Machariel is simply not the ship for you right now. Train up your navigation, projectile and shield tanking skills and come back to it in a month (or three).
Theragor
#19 - 2014-03-05 15:35:06 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Well...there you have it..XD

A Machariel is simply not the ship for you right now. Train up your navigation, projectile and shield tanking skills and come back to it in a month (or three).


Nah shouldn't take me that long. My attributes right now are specced towards weapon training and I still have 2 respecs left.
Rumini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2014-03-05 16:12:34 UTC
Theragor wrote:
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Well...there you have it..XD

A Machariel is simply not the ship for you right now. Train up your navigation, projectile and shield tanking skills and come back to it in a month (or three).


Nah shouldn't take me that long. My attributes right now are specced towards weapon training and I still have 2 respecs left.


It's given the Machariel is if no the best, a top mission ship. You can browse and see tons of ridicules fits with cruiser speeds, insane dps and sick completion times. What those fit's dont show is the Mach uses its guns for tank and the guys pulling those things off have almost all relevant skills to 5. Expecting it to tank like an Amarr ship against Sansha rats with low skills is a recipe for a dead Mach. Pirate ships as a whole require extensive training to use to their potential. I can't tell you what to do with your isk and your ship. All we can do is make recommendations. And it's generally recommended that the Mach is an advanced ship for advanced user with advanced skill sets. Ignoring those recommendations is to do so at your own risk. Personally I'd shelve the mach for the time being until you get the required skills. Best of luck either way.
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