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Yet Another POS Defense/Industry Fit question (C3 - small corp)

Author
Dixon Cutter
Savvys Corp
#1 - 2014-03-04 23:19:19 UTC
So I see multitudes of POS suggestions for WH fits, of course there are more opinions than players, as usual :)

I gather so far that most agree that ECM is VERY important, D1ckstar-type of arrangement as well. I can't figure out though how to fit all that and yet also to have the industrial infrastructure on the same tower, like labs for research, polymer reactor array for gas processing, maybe manufacturing modules. Here's the fit I came up with according to most recommendations:

http://goo.gl/XBMK5i

However, none of the industrial stuff fits if I am to leave all the defense online. Or do I leave some defense online and have the industrial stuff running, and only offline it in favour of the rest of defense when I am actually attacked?

Our situation is that we are a small corp, sometimes even solo, and are inhabiting our first C3. We are not always online, as we all work, so we can't have someone on alert at all times.

Suggestions welcome, please!

P.S. Obviously we have a lot to learn and possibly the questions I am throwing out there maybe very ignorant, but we are trying to learn as much as possible, yet we want to supplement theory with practice as soon as we can.
Carlos Agathon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-03-05 00:53:19 UTC
If you absolutely can not leave the industry modules offline, leaving defensive modules offline kinda seems like the only alternative. Depending on how much ISK you make, you might think about getting more towers and split the indy between them. Or you put up more towers that are very lightly defended and do all your industry in them, while you live out of the other one.
And yes, Dickstar is the way to go in a wh that can not fit caps.
Dixon Cutter
Savvys Corp
#3 - 2014-03-05 03:02:47 UTC
Thank you, Carlos.

I am not sure I understand how other small corps do it. I mean there is a reason why I am in the WH space, and that's to make a profit. If I put up some hard core infrastructure and use up most of its resources on defense, then I am left with very little room for indy activities, such as research, refining, repro or manufacture. Putting up another tower and making it lightly defended in favour of indy makes little sence since now THAT tower is vulnerable... I'm LOST :)
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#4 - 2014-03-05 03:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
For the most part unless you either annoy the wrong people, leave bling around the POS making it look like a possible loot pinata or leave it poorly defended you probably won't be attacked. (If you have a direct highsec static or an otherwise desirable wh system in will increase the chance a bit).

If you want industry stuff perma online then you can get away with 4 of each type of ECM online which will be enough put off all but the most dedicated attackers, more is good if you have the grid for them online though.

Not sure on the value of neuts online in a C3 as for the most part they'd be most effective with POS gunners online in which case hopefully you'd have enough notice to online them as needed (bit different in C5/6 space as it makes it harder for anyone to drop a single unsupported cap in to RF the POS). Someone might correct me on that though.

For always online I'd reccomend atleast 2 point batteries of some type, 4 of each ecm and some smattering of small and medium batteries - will put off the opportunist attackers and anyone dedicated to attacking will easily rep past the paltry DPS of even a deathstar if there isn't POS gunners online, fully dickstarring it up will be an even bigger deterrent but if you want industry stuff you will have to make some compromises.
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
#5 - 2014-03-05 06:54:04 UTC
The only correct answer is: move to C4 with a c4+ static. set up a meduim, save billions on fuel.
Dixon Cutter
Savvys Corp
#6 - 2014-03-05 08:15:26 UTC
Adoris Nolen wrote:
The only correct answer is: move to C4 with a c4+ static. set up a meduim, save billions on fuel.


Adoris, thank you for your input. I would love it if you could explain your reasoning. Without that, I'm afraid your statement does not sound like an answer but just invites more questions :)

Thank you again for your comment.
Carlos Agathon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-05 11:10:43 UTC
The best defense you can have is NOT leaving expensive stuff floating in your POS. Don't leave caps floating, put them into the SMA and generally don't let your POS look worth bashing.
This also includes one very important aspect: If somebody really really want's to bash, they're gonna do it and there is no way you can stop them. So instead of chasing the idea of an 'unbashable POS', simply don't make taking it down worthwhile. Take your loot out rather than keeping it in there for long. Don't keep 10 Vindis and 5 Moros' around. Rroff said it: don't look like a pinata.

Adoris also has a point. I've seen pretty small Corps operate in C4's successfully. The ISK is better and in spite of what many bears think ('I have to pick a C1/C2/C3 because I want to be close to highsec') you will still have many K-Space connections. I myself live in a C5 with a C5 static and we have HighSec exits in the chain every day.
Dixon Cutter
Savvys Corp
#8 - 2014-03-05 15:46:03 UTC
Interesting to hear. The only things I've heard so far about small corps in C4 and up, is that 1) caps are allowed, 2) sleepers are too hard to solo or even when you have a team of 2-3, etc. C3 is he best choice for a small corp, esp one that has a static to LS, not HS (because of too many curious georges) , and not Null.
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#9 - 2014-03-05 16:31:22 UTC  |  Edited by: TXG SYNC
You can't fit a cap through a C4 wormhole on either side. You can, however, build one in the hole all the way from C1 to C4. It's C5 and above where you can be invaded with capitals.

My alliance-mate (and co-author on my blog) Splatus wrote on this very topic today. We recently invaded a C2, burned it to the ground, and sold the wormhole to new residents who are very excited to have such a clean hole -- no bash needed for the buyer! -- and opportunities to dip their toes into wormhole space. For really no better reason than that the former residents 15Bn+ floating in space on a daily basis in a mostly-faction-fit POS, and we needed the practice.

http://splatus.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/invasions-and-morals/

Too many faction mods on your tower is also a bad thing. The Death Star was a very tough nut to crack in a C2 with a C1/hisec static, but we figured out a method, failed the first time, and came back to crack it.

I agree, though, there are still plenty of C4s. Better gas, better ore, better sites, as long as you're willing to live with the fact there is no static k-space connection. I'd recommend a C3 or C2 static if you are concerned about having reliable access to k-space3. C4 with C3 statics are abundant, running sites in your static C3 would have a fairly low barrier to entry, and C3s always have a k-space connection.

As the self-appointed janitors of W-space, we will burn you out for having a cluttered POS :-)
Random Woman
Very Professional Corporation
#10 - 2014-03-05 16:33:12 UTC
Dixon Cutter wrote:
Interesting to hear. The only things I've heard so far about small corps in C4 and up, is that 1) caps are allowed, 2) sleepers are too hard to solo or even when you have a team of 2-3, etc. C3 is he best choice for a small corp, esp one that has a static to LS, not HS (because of too many curious georges) , and not Null.


Caps are allowed in every WH, you just dont get em in/out in one piece in everything under a c5 (you have to build em in there).

With the recent change in Marauders C4s are very much soloable, just dont bling it to much as you will lose it eventually. 3-4 Remote Rep Domies or a few BS and some logistic are also enough to run c4 sites, denpends on how small, small is in your case.

Problem with C4s are the endless C4-> C4 chains, and they are a ***** to chainroll (I hope you got plenty of orcas).

Low end whs with ls or ns are always good.

c2 with c5 and ns aint bad either, you get a lot of K162 triggers in those from other low end whs so you dont have to look long for a hs exit. Also nobody want those because of the ns static (which is fun).
TXG SYNC
Dad Jokes R Us
#11 - 2014-03-05 16:39:13 UTC
Random Woman wrote:
c2 with c5 and ns aint bad either, you get a lot of K162 triggers in those from other low end whs so you dont have to look long for a hs exit. Also nobody want those because of the ns static (which is fun).


Agreed, some of the most fun times we've had have been screwing around with null dudes. Maybe we do a cloaky gank of a few locals before they get wise. Maybe we run nullsec anomalies. Maybe find a ghost site or rare anom nobody has found yet. Maybe open straight into an Incursion system. We bring the fight, they blob us or (rarely) bring a fight themselves with roughly equal numbers. We both provide content to one another, exchange GFs, maybe try to stealth-roll the hole while one or the other isn't looking, and have a good time for the 16 or 24 hours we're connected to one another. Null and Low are fun to play in as a wormholer, because the locals will never really "get used" to you; your roaming grounds are the entire galaxy.

Wormholes are the best content in Eve, because just about all the content -- except perhaps sov warfare mechanics -- is available to you if you play your cards right. Just make sure you keep a few weeks of POS fuel stocked for those days or weeks when you can't get a reliable static connection. And stock up when you have those weeks of never-ending chains that end in hisec.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#12 - 2014-03-05 18:15:30 UTC
faction defense mods save on fittings, and many mods aren't that expensive, but you gotta look around and check all the types. don't go full-faction as thats begging for a takedown. If you have a lot of value in ships and such, it may be wise to have a separate tower as a full deathstar for storing important/expensive stuff as your corps home base, while you do industry crap in a second pos (potentially smaller one).

Definitely have backup ecm modules, damps are incredibly light on the fittings and quite powerful for what they do.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Jackal Willow
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-03-07 18:31:24 UTC
We are a small group of friends in a C3 as well.

Just keep all hardeners and majority of the guns offline unless you need them. Keeping the all ECM, a few guns, and the scram/webs online is enough to deter anyone from taking down your POS. Especially if they are a small group.

You should have any issues on POS safety unless you seriously **** off someone, which in a C3 should never happen.

we run a large d1ckstar with max industry within it. Just turn on and off different things as you need them. Better than paying double for a secondary tower any day.

Message me if you have more specific questions.
1c3crysta1
Silent Majority.
Aspartame.
#14 - 2014-03-08 10:00:00 UTC
Dixon Cutter wrote:


When it comes to that fitting, I can't help to wonder if u forgot your shield hardeners. The best deterrent is not to leave a big resistance hole. Instead of all those beam lasers, use pulse lasers and a dozen of damps to ensure that they are within pulse range. Will save you some grid and boost the tracking of your batteries. And for defense against small ships, a few faction small batteries might come in handy (signature resolution of 40m instead of 125m).
As others stated, C4s are quite nice and there's quite alot of empty ones aswell. Have you thought of getting into a C4/C1? Regular high-sec access (quite alot of high-sec statics among the C1s). I can't imagine there being a huge competetion for them either, since the C1 doesn't allow more then 20mil/jump, but as a industry corp, building your own battleships shouldn't be a problem, right?