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Is skill training a bit too slow?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#101 - 2014-03-04 20:50:19 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
As new player you are obliged to be an easy prey for older players
No, you really aren't, which is why this whole SP anxiety that's been cropping up all over the place lately is such a non-problem.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#102 - 2014-03-04 21:46:55 UTC
did not read the wall but title.... short answer




[*]
Quote:
YES!!!!!!!!!!

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#103 - 2014-03-04 22:14:12 UTC
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:

Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw.

Yes, Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#104 - 2014-03-04 22:26:21 UTC
Skill training has been massively buffed over the years.

Removal of learning skills, adding remaps and reduced prerequisites for example.

But still not good enough for some, it seems. If CCP reduced times by 5%, it wouldn't be a week before people were crying for 10%. Just leave well enough alone or we'll be training titans in a week soon enough.

Mr Epeen Cool
Storm Novah
Yada Industries
#105 - 2014-03-04 23:36:57 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Storm Novah wrote:
Giving a 1 time bonus as a gift is not the same as a consistent permanent change.
Not exactly the same, but very similar. Difference being the effect would be concentrated instead of distributed in time.

After a +5% SP gift, you'd have roughly the same SP that you would've had if the training time were 5% faster for the entire duration of your toons' 'active EVE lifespan' (adjusted for your remap/implant choices). Roughly 2.5 weeks/year, so 5-6 weeks in your case.

It would still have an impact on the character bazaar, for example, and still give people (especially older players) some new toys fast.

Are you saying you are less 'hardcore' than most of the other posters, and would oppose faster skill training but would welcome a one-time SP bonus to all active toons?

Actually I oppose both... neither one is necessary and while it may boost "older" players more than new players doesn't make it any more or less a benefit. The training speed as it currently sits is balanced and I see no valid reason to mess with something that works.
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#106 - 2014-03-04 23:39:53 UTC  |  Edited by: 45thtiger 0109
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
First, a disclaimer:

- The real-time training concept is great
- The 'order of magnitude' of the current training time feels right too. It gives you time to learn to fly stuff and makes that new ship class that you've waited weeks/months to get into all the more rewarding. It also gives progression in EVE that 'epic' pace that is pretty cool.


But...


Why not speed up things just a little bit? Say, 5% to 10% max.

To make it fair for everybody, all active accounts would receive an SP bonus of exactly ( 1 / 0.95-0.9 -1 = ) 5.26%-11.11% of their current SP.

So all EVE players, new and old, would be able to do a little bit more stuff in the game. A new ship class, a bonus to the preferred weapon system, whatever.

My assumption here is: a bit more opportunites for all = a bit more fun for all. And since it would be percentage-based, it shouldn't really make things easier for new players at the expense of the vets. The vets would get a hefty SP bonus indeed! That they could maybe use to more easily kill that HAC that the younger player just got into a few weeks earlier than before... Win-win maybe?

Wouldn't we all love this? Wouldn't it also boost active player numbers ('hey lemme go try that brand new toy')?

Final disclaimer: I know most threads are whiney these days. I'm not complaining, I'm a patient dude and I have tons of fun flying just frigs and dessies atm. Just thought this could be reasonable and a nice present for every EVE player Big smile



skill training to slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ?

Nope its not too slow for me working as intended.LolPCool

Just train your skill to lvl 5 so you can use the + 5 implants to train your skills faster that helps

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#107 - 2014-03-04 23:57:43 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:

Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw.

Yes, Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content.


So you think Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content.

I don't think so Star Citizen will destroy EvE.

EvE has a niece market and dose more than Star Citizen will ever do.

I have had a look at Star Citizen for me its too complex as a game.

Where with EvE I do understand the concept of this great game we have.

So those people who are going to run over to Star Citizen good luck with that game because there are going to be allot of whining on Star Citizen fourms as well.

Because with EvE CCP are always going to expand on this great game we have and this game I am going to stick with for years to come.

At least EvE will be free of those Whiners who complains about this and that on these EvE fourms.

EvE will still be around long after Star Citizen dies out.LolP

**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#108 - 2014-03-04 23:58:59 UTC
45thtiger 0109 wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:

Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw.

Yes, Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content.


So you think Star Citizen will totally and absolutely destroy Eve with its plethora of real content.

I don't think so Star Citizen will destroy EvE.

EvE has a niece market and dose more than Star Citizen will ever do.

I have had a look at Star Citizen for me its too complex as a game.

Where with EvE I do understand the concept of this great game we have.

So those people who are going to run over to Star Citizen good luck with that game because there are going to be allot of whining on Star Citizen fourms as well.

Because with EvE CCP are always going to expand on this great game we have and this game I am going to stick with EvE for years to come.

At least EvE will be free of those Whiners who complains about this and that on these EvE fourms.

EvE will still be around long after Star Citizen dies out.LolP


**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
Tonai Kion
Physics Says No
Brotherhood of Spacers
#109 - 2014-03-05 00:16:01 UTC
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine.
The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now.

Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30–40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1–2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as “improving things for the newbies” when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits.

You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players.


As a newbie flying a mining ship most of the time, I disagree.

I've got modest combat skills (most basic ones to level 3 i think), no ewar, no skills in warp disruption, or anything.

This morning my corp mates decided to go cause some trouble in low-sec. They asked if anyone wanted to tag along and do some pvp.

I asked if they minded a fail fit frigate joining them on their escapade.

They were like "who the hell cares what you fly, let's go shoot some stuff."

I learned how to use my directional scanner this morning, how to scout a gate, basic shot calling and how to use E-WAR and disruption.

We ended our little frigate and cruiser fleet fighting a battle cruiser on a gate. He was bait for two more battle cruisers to come in and shoot at us. We all managed to get away and called it quits after that.

The whole time I'm still training that mining skill that I need to get to 5 for Exhumers.

SP don't matter. Teamwork does.
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
#110 - 2014-03-05 00:17:11 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:

Because EVE players love spreadsheets and math:

* Level 1 = 250 SP
* Level 2 = 1415 SP
* Level 3 = 8000 SP
* Level 4 = 45255 SP
* Level 5 = 256000 SP

Training time of level 4 vs. level 5:
Level 4 / Level 5 = 45255 / 256000 = level 4 is 17.68% of level 5

You can train (256000 - 45255) / 45255 = 4.66 same rank skills to level 4 in the same amount of time as training one skill to level 5.


I feel as though the major benefits from leveling up slowed down when my characters hit around 20m SP or so, and become rather insignificant at around 50m SP. So you can pilot a good number of ships with adequate SP in under a year, and most T2s by two. You probably could get this even faster if you only focus on one or two races/weapon types or ship classes. For a game that has been around for over ten years I would say that freshman year is a nice time segment for a rookie.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#111 - 2014-03-05 00:19:11 UTC
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:
Tacomaco wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
[quote=Gully Alex Foyle]things too much - although primarily when I was doing time sink skills (Advanced Spaceship Command for example).
The base time is, in my opinion, actually too short. To get a rank 1 skill from skillbook to V is less than four days (with a peak remap and implants) - I would support stretching that to seven, a week to fully develop a skill seems about right.


Coming from a player almost 10 years in the game is no surprise.

Who knows, maybe in 10 years I'll have a similar opinion. That is if no other company takes the good ideas from Eve and makes a game that would get the Eve players base.

Already happening. Star Citizen will be in alpha later this year and released in 2015. It is fully player funded btw.



Do you seriously think SC will do anything to eve in the long run? Have you not read anything about it? Compaired to eve its wow in space.

"Ooo we can pvp.. if you set the slider to pvp, and then my dice role works out'

'ooo I can gank people.... but not loot there wrecks... but i'm gonna be a pirate!'

'ooo I can try and steal ships... if my mates all on and if I can find anyone...'

Honestly, SC looks flashy, will prolly be fun, but that's like saying 'oh your 10 year old Mazarati (sp?) is no match for my new and shiney Prius!' No.. its the same product that does thigns differently. SC should not impact eve much, you will get some who will jump, but any one who enjoys the meta game of eve will jump back. You will lose people who just want to play eve with joysticks or who cries at any pvp.

And yes off topic, but they hype over SC is a load of garbage.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Novah Soul
#112 - 2014-03-05 00:22:42 UTC
Tonai Kion wrote:
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine.
The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now.

Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30–40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1–2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as “improving things for the newbies” when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits.

You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players.


As a newbie flying a mining ship most of the time, I disagree.

I've got modest combat skills (most basic ones to level 3 i think), no ewar, no skills in warp disruption, or anything.

This morning my corp mates decided to go cause some trouble in low-sec. They asked if anyone wanted to tag along and do some pvp.

I asked if they minded a fail fit frigate joining them on their escapade.

They were like "who the hell cares what you fly, let's go shoot some stuff."

I learned how to use my directional scanner this morning, how to scout a gate, basic shot calling and how to use E-WAR and disruption.

We ended our little frigate and cruiser fleet fighting a battle cruiser on a gate. He was bait for two more battle cruisers to come in and shoot at us. We all managed to get away and called it quits after that.

The whole time I'm still training that mining skill that I need to get to 5 for Exhumers.

SP don't matter. Teamwork does.

See this? This man gets it. Good work Cool

A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#113 - 2014-03-05 00:44:26 UTC
Novah Soul wrote:
Tonai Kion wrote:
Eccon Dustwaver wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
It's too slow for new players, for vets who have 40+m SP it's fine.
The first 10-20m SP people train should be greatly boosted from what it is now.

Other way around. For new players, 5% faster training would save them maybe 30–40 minutes on a skill. For older players, it'll be 1–2 days. As always, something that makes next to no difference to new players is being presented as “improving things for the newbies” when the ones to really benefit are the older players who don't need any such benefits.

You are incorrect. It gives an advantage to the newbies by letting them catch up to us faster so that they don't feel weak and overpowered by the veteran players.


As a newbie flying a mining ship most of the time, I disagree.

I've got modest combat skills (most basic ones to level 3 i think), no ewar, no skills in warp disruption, or anything.

This morning my corp mates decided to go cause some trouble in low-sec. They asked if anyone wanted to tag along and do some pvp.

I asked if they minded a fail fit frigate joining them on their escapade.

They were like "who the hell cares what you fly, let's go shoot some stuff."

I learned how to use my directional scanner this morning, how to scout a gate, basic shot calling and how to use E-WAR and disruption.

We ended our little frigate and cruiser fleet fighting a battle cruiser on a gate. He was bait for two more battle cruisers to come in and shoot at us. We all managed to get away and called it quits after that.

The whole time I'm still training that mining skill that I need to get to 5 for Exhumers.

SP don't matter. Teamwork does.

See this? This man gets it. Good work Cool


yep, good to see some people do it right.


I would also add that the biggest issue with new players is often an insane rush to get into either a battleship or a T3, bypassing all the other options in between. I recall a guy on one chat complaining loudly that about how his CEO was making him "waste" 7 days getting Racial Frigate V (opening up Interceptors, Assault Frigates, Covops and Ewar Frigates) when he was keen to get into a Battleship.

Speeding up the skill training would actually make that tendency even worse.