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Improvements required for mining ice

Author
Katas Strophe
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-03-04 15:44:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Katas Strophe
Mining ice in high security zone is difficult for an honest player who does not use a bot to mine.

For example, I use 2 mining barges and I have trouble to mine the amount of ice required to power a small POS ! ShockedShocked.
If I compare with the old system of mining ice, I need to mine much more often for the same amount and it prevents me from doing anything else that would be more interesting than mining.

Below is a list for improvement for mining ice :

Note 1 : Sorry for my English language....

Note 2 : For me "wild mining" is a player who uses a robot or a player who mine regardless of other miners and happens with 12 barges.


1. Keep incomplete mining cycle
When the asteroid is entirely consumed, keep the portion of the cycle is not completed to continue the unfinished cycle on another asteroid.
OR
Another solution would be to not allow a barge to start a cycle if it is not able to finish.
This is required because it is really unpleasant for the player losing cycles mining. Moreover, this enhancement will also prevent the "wild mining" (Example: 15 barges on the same stoneShocked!)

2. Audible alarm on mining barges
Add an audible alert on barges to warn the miner that a vessel having a bad standing is in the system.
The player may configure this alarm according to the standing of the character, or the corporation or the alliance. This is necessary because the mining in EVE is soporific and you just need little moment of inattention to lose his ship.
- The configuration of this alarm is persistent and the player can adjust at any time.
- This alarm will only be available on mining barges.
- The default value of this audible alert is Off.
So, with this new tool, a player who legally mine (without using bot) will have an extra chance to protect her ship against troublemakers (Ganker).

3. Increase the amount of asteroid and spread it over a greater distance
This is necessary to ensure that all players can have a chance to mine ice. The ice asteroid fields do not last long enough. An average asteroid fields will depleted about 1 to 1.5 hour.
This improvement will allow those who are not make "wild mining" to move away from big players who are more than 4 barges. This will give more time to mine the ice.

4. Establish a system of concession for ice asteroid
Required to prevent the "wild mining" made by some players who use a Bot. (example 12 barges on the same asteroid!!!).
- Limited to 4, the number of mining barges that can mine an asteroid simultaneously.
- When the player leaves the asteroid to go unload its cargo of ice, the concession on asteroid will remain active for 5 minutes. This time will allow the player to return to the asteroid. After this time 5 minutes, the player receives a message asking him to renew his concession.This message will appear only once and will stretch the time (another 5 minutes) to allocate to return to the asteroid.
- If a player leaves the game, the concession is automatically removed.
- The waypoint of asteroid concession automatically appears in the fly menu (right clic mouse button). This allows to jump directly to the asteroid concession.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#2 - 2014-03-04 15:46:11 UTC
I don't think EVE supports fractions of an item.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Katas Strophe
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-03-04 15:52:52 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
I don't think EVE supports fractions of an item.


1. Keep incomplete mining cycle.
Maybe the other solution is better : Another solution would be to not allow a barge to start a cycle if it is not able to finish.
Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
#4 - 2014-03-04 17:03:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Alberik
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104337

if the calculation is right you shouldnt mine for more than 1 hour per week with each account. that should not really be a problem even if icemining is boring as hell

Quote:

If I compare with the old system of mining ice, I need to mine much more often for the same amount


if you mean "much more often" with the times you have to check if a belt is up - then yes. the pure mining time has about halfed with the change to the new system
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-03-04 17:08:51 UTC
I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it.
Your Dad Naked
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-03-04 18:23:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Your Dad Naked
Rowells wrote:
I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it.

Go check the prices for White Glaze and related products. That is not equilibrium.

I really don't agree with the OP overall, however I do believe he is correct about this. Caldari Control Towers are significantly more popular and the spawn amounts for White Glaze need to reflect that.


OP: As for your problem with the 12 mining barge fleets... fight back. I won't give suggestion (as they could be used against me :D) but think creatively and you'll find a way no matter what setup they have.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-03-04 18:27:39 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:
Rowells wrote:
I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it.

Go check the prices for White Glaze and related products. That is not equilibrium.

I really don't agree with the OP overall, however I do believe he is correct about this. Caldari Control Towers are significantly more popular and the spawn amounts for White Glaze need to reflect that.


OP: As for your problem with the 12 mining barge fleets... fight back. I won't give suggestion (as they could be used against me :D) but think creatively and you'll find a way no matter what setup they have.

Caldari Control Towers are the most popular because White Glaze is found in Caldari space, which is also where Jita is.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#8 - 2014-03-04 18:34:36 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Your Dad Naked wrote:
[quote=Rowells]I can see how the new system has affected high traffic areas of highsec but overall i like the new system. It's kind of reached that equilibrium point and i would be hesitant to mess with it.

Go check the prices for White Glaze and related products. That is not equilibrium.

I really don't agree with the OP overall, however I do believe he is correct about this. Caldari Control Towers are significantly more popular and the spawn amounts for White Glaze need to reflect that.
/quote]
Caldari Control Towers are the most popular because White Glaze is found in Caldari space, which is also where Jita is.


Actually Caldari is the most popular because A: Most CPU for running highsec labs and B: Highsec towers covered in ECM are a massive pain in the ass to take down with subcaps.

Also, just because caldari is more poplar does not mean it's CCP 's job to spawn more ice to bring the cost down.
There's this thing called supply and demand. There is a limited supply, and a lot of demand. So prices go up. Sounds like the market working perfectly to me.

As for the rest of the OP's ideas.... no. It's not CCP's job to make sure that one person can compete on an equal level with a massive multiboxer. Also just because someone is ice mining with many chars at once does not mean they are a bot. It's quite common in Ice mining because the time to deplete an asteroid is long enough that it makes semi-AFK mining much easier.
Eleanor Malle
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-03-05 11:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Eleanor Malle
Anhenka wrote:
[quote=Omnathious Deninard][quote=Your Dad Naked][quote=Rowells]I ........

As for the rest of the OP's ideas.... no. It's not CCP's job to make sure that one person can compete on an equal level with a massive multiboxer. Also just because someone is ice mining with many chars at once does not mean they are a bot. It's quite common in Ice mining because the time to deplete an asteroid is long enough that it makes semi-AFK mining much easier.


First, I know the difference between a bot and a human. The behaviors are not the same.

Secondly, if I would use a Bot I could configure it so that my ships can automatically leave the mining area when a player with a bad standing come in the system. So, CCP should give me similar tools (Example Audible alarm to advise me when a ass ..... come in the system for make trouble).

Third, a concession system (see first post for details) greatly help small players and would balance things a little more (small vs multiboxer).

Fourth, do not allow a barge to mine if it is not able to complete the cycle would avoid many unpleasant (especially when there is almost no asteroid and all miners mine the same).

In conclusion, for me CCP must organize so that ALL types of players will find their account.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#10 - 2014-03-05 11:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
I do have a completly different Problem, i cant stand the fact that only 2-4 Barges are needed to run POSes anyway, a POS should be a thing for good Corps, i rather suggsest to reduce the fuel need from small POS instead while increase large POS fuel costs.

And because you can buy that stuff anyway neither miner nor other professions would be treated unfair.
Katas Strophe
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-03-05 12:46:29 UTC


I think it was not a good idea to put several proposals for improvement in the same post.

I will create a post for each of the proposals in order to have a good feed back on each of the proposed improvements.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I do not post often. Shocked






Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#12 - 2014-03-05 18:24:23 UTC
Katas Strophe wrote:

I think it was not a good idea to put several proposals for improvement in the same post.

I will create a post for each of the proposals in order to have a good feed back on each of the proposed improvements.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I do not post often. Shocked


Please don't. Getting mixed or negative feedback on your ideas is not a reason to go spam the forums with three more threads all of which are going to get the same treatment.

Let's lay a few things out.

A: Not allow a barge to start a cycle if it is not able to finish: CCP gave miners the survey scanner module, which permits them to scan asteroids or ice blocks in order to know how much ice or ore is left in them. They already gave you the tools needed to make sure you don't start a cycle on an asteroid ore ice chunk that someone else is going to mine out first. It's certainly not their problem if you don't use one and sometimes lose out on a cycle because someone finished an asteroid first.

B: Audible alarm on mining barges: No. This was already created in the past, a goonfleet created tool called BACON, that could be programed to make different noises depending on the standings of people who entered system. When CCP found out about it, they banned a lot of people and changed the rules to prevent tools from using similar cache scraping techniques. CCP believes it provides far too much intel for far too little effort, and have stated that this feature will not be included in the game.

C: Increase the amount of asteroid and spread it over a greater distance: Does nothing. Mass multiboxers with many characters and mining boosts will far outperform a solo miner regardless of if the asteroids were 0m or 100km apart. They will in fact gain efficiency over solo miners because with the 50% mining laser range from boosts, they have less distance to travel than a solo miner.

D: Establish a system of concession for ice asteroid: As I said before, this is not viewed as a problem in EVE by CCP. Bringing friends or more accounts along has always been intended to provide a benefit over solo play. There are no other "solo player protection" systems in the game, and that's because CCP always intended this game to be a co-operative game. If people are mining out asteroids faster than you, the solution is not to whine to CCP to let you have your own little chunk of ice, it's to bring your own friends or alts, gank them or hire someone else to wardec or gank them for you, move somewhere else where there is less competition, or just deal with it.
Dave Stark
#13 - 2014-03-05 20:01:05 UTC
I seem to have failed to find the part where you explain what problem you're trying to fix?
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#14 - 2014-03-05 20:09:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
I seem to have failed to find the part where you explain what problem you're trying to fix?


She is trying hard to not say she wants to go back to august 2013.


Dave Stark
#15 - 2014-03-05 20:11:29 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
I seem to have failed to find the part where you explain what problem you're trying to fix?


She is trying hard to not say she wants to go back to august 2013.




ah yes, the month i mined 15k of isotopes and then went "**** this ****, i'm never mining again" and purchased a machariel and decided to impose myself on anyone stupid enough to invite me to a fleet when i X up in their incursion communities.

that's what happens when you own 3 accounts, don't have a job, and want to test the limits of how much torture you can impose upon yourself.
Rosira
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-03-06 11:46:04 UTC
While I no longer have a requirement to mine ice I have done a fair bit over time and I'd have say a resounding No to all of these.
They are not improvements, they are a player wanting end result with as little effort as required.

The first 2 you just want CCP to hold your hand when the tools you need are already given but you are to lazy to utilize. More chunks would nice but its good balance as it is for the least risky (and least valuable) ice.

Having been in a Alliance that was always in need of blocks we dominated the local belts for a time and the last option would make our fleets been a lot less effective. There are other things that can be done to stop botting and one that neuters a coordinated fleet is not one of them.

If you want to compete with a larger group in a belt you need to organize on that larger level or just accept the amount you can get.


That alliance at the time was quite small but dedicated to achieving its goals and the ice fleets were a thing of beauty, then it got a chance at lowsec ice and didn't look back

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#17 - 2014-03-06 11:59:13 UTC
Step 1. Stop mining ice.

Step 2. Do literally almost anything else for money.

Step 3. Buy POS fuel with the proceeds.

Step 4. Profit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-03-06 12:08:48 UTC
Ummm...if everybody stopped mining ice and did literally almost anything else...where would the POS fuel you want to buy come from?

I agree with Rosira...the balance seems about right at the moment. the lone miner will take what they can get, but then has the freedom to take what they want where they can find it. The fleet gets the benefit of being such, but then must be in the fleet when and where the FC decides.
Alyth Nerun
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#19 - 2014-03-06 12:14:58 UTC
Another miner who thinks he is entitled to mine free AFK highsec ice in complete safety as much isolated as possible from competition.

CCP worked hard for the last 10 years to remove almost all the risk to highsec mining and to reduce the effort to one push of a button per hour. And you still demand more safety, more AFK and more isolation? How about we improve the parts of the game where people actually play the game?
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#20 - 2014-03-06 12:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
I do have a Question, is is ICE mining in Low/Null/WH different then mining ice in Highsec? (More yield, stronger rats, more ice)?
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