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Why is The Archon a much better Carrier than all the rest?
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Evelyn Castus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-03-02 17:59:33 UTC
I'm new to the game but have an interest in cap ships.

I've read repeatedly that the Archon is potentially the way to go when I've had lots of experience with the sub class class ships.

Why is the Archon deemed to be so much better?
Damien White
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-03-02 18:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Damien White
Slott layout and Armor Bonus.

You can have a good tank while also having good cap management.


EDIT: Same reason why a dominix is so powerfull.

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RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#3 - 2014-03-02 18:22:54 UTC
Also:
BIG fleets are typically Armor based.
Possibly the best Dread is Armor fit.
The first thing cap ships are in need of when they jump, is capacitor.

So ship roles, + great tank, make the Archon a no-brainer.
crazy0146
The Federation of assorted candy
#4 - 2014-03-02 18:48:00 UTC
Resist Bonus
Energy transfer Range Bonus
Enough CPU and PG to fit a local tank and RR mods of the same category
More armor cap fleets

Thanny has a 'wasted' bonus as you mostly use sentries on a carrier
Brylan Grey
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-03-03 07:13:46 UTC
Wanted to use a chimera or Thanatos honestly.

But looking at numbers and purpose, when it comes to pvp, archon honestly has it all. Best tank. Cap transfer utility when needed, slots, etc.

If carrier bonuses went with drones too, it would be a whole different ball game. But they don't. So honestly, if you not doing solo stuff, archon.

Will it stop me from fielding a Thanatos later? No. But by the time you can field one carrier, it isn't long to field another. So, it's not too bad really.
Lina Theist
Running out of Space
ExoGenesis Consortium
#6 - 2014-03-03 09:41:05 UTC
because game balance
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-03-03 13:32:28 UTC
What the others said.

Most big capital fleets are armor based.

The Archons resist bonus means that firstly its harder to kill, and secondly that remote repair works better on it (resists are effectively both a multiplier on local reps and remote reps).
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-03-03 21:17:21 UTC
The Archon might not be the best at every possible use for a carrier but it has no weaknesses and there is nothing it can't do at least second best. (except rep pos shields)
With a simple T2 fit, the Archon will be useful from solo triage and ratting up to 2000 man epics.

Basically, the Archon has the advantage of FUD. Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. No-one is ever gonna be unwelcome in fleet for bringing an Archon.
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-03-03 22:33:37 UTC
The Chimera is on-par with or better than the Archon, but there are so many more armor fleets than shield fleets that the Archon gets considered the best.

If you don't plan to use a carrier for large scale fleet combat though, really any carrier works fine enough.

No sig.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2014-03-04 00:43:39 UTC
Archons are used as they can tank the best in big fleet fights. Adding in slave implants gives a massive boost to HP. Having a big buffer is important in any fleet pvp, means you need less repping. Shield cap ships do not get the same effect from any implants. 56% HP boosts to a cap ship is pretty big.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#11 - 2014-03-04 06:17:33 UTC
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:
The Chimera is on-par with or better than the Archon, but there are so many more armor fleets than shield fleets that the Archon gets considered the best.

If you don't plan to use a carrier for large scale fleet combat though, really any carrier works fine enough.


This. Heated invulns are just so much better than EANMs
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-03-04 13:16:45 UTC
For PVP purposes armour fleets will want archon and shield fleets chimera. The other 2 have no tank bonuses and so can be killed quickly.
Nidhogger as suicide triage to provide a quick burst of repping another ship at the cost of certain doom is fine too.
For repping POS's Nidhogger is obviously the best.
For killing structures with no risk of pvp then maybe consider Thanatos although there are a ton of better options and you have to be on grid controlling your own fighters to get the bonus.
For most people it is a case of does your alliance use armour or shield caps and then the choice of archon / chimera is made for you.
For most this is down to dread choice. Naglfar will mean chimeras and Moros (or rev i suppose) mean Archon.
If all you do is use it for transporting your stuff and repping towers in safety then i suggest a Nidhogger.

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Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
#13 - 2014-03-04 13:34:44 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Also:
BIG fleets are typically Armor based.
Possibly the best Dread is Armor fit.
The first thing cap ships are in need of when they jump, is capacitor.

So ship roles, + great tank, make the Archon a no-brainer.

Best Dreads are not armor fit but shield in capital warfare, only thing where armor dreads are better than shield is tracking and better hitting targets around cruiser hull. If you are fighting dread vs dread or capital fights, you will want a shield..

Archon - armor
Chimera - shield
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#14 - 2014-03-04 13:48:29 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
For PVP purposes armour fleets will want archon and shield fleets chimera. The other 2 have no tank bonuses and so can be killed quickly.
Nidhogger as suicide triage to provide a quick burst of repping another ship at the cost of certain doom is fine too.
For repping POS's Nidhogger is obviously the best.
For killing structures with no risk of pvp then maybe consider Thanatos although there are a ton of better options and you have to be on grid controlling your own fighters to get the bonus.
For most people it is a case of does your alliance use armour or shield caps and then the choice of archon / chimera is made for you.
For most this is down to dread choice. Naglfar will mean chimeras and Moros (or rev i suppose) mean Archon.
If all you do is use it for transporting your stuff and repping towers in safety then i suggest a Nidhogger.



Yes - the above - fine.

Its all said in this text. Its nailed down hard in this thread. You want to rep pos, then ONLY IF ITS SAFE, use a Nid. If you want to quickly destroy your ship with glory ... suicide triage FTW, its Nid. Note that you cant use multiple Nids to do that as they cant tank for the reps they are providing. Otherwise, use a Thanatos at a pinch in each circumstance.

But really, the doubling up of resists for both Archon and Chimera, with ranged cap, make their gangs infinitely better.

Thanks CCP.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#15 - 2014-03-04 14:19:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:
The Chimera is on-par with or better than the Archon, but there are so many more armor fleets than shield fleets that the Archon gets considered the best.

If you don't plan to use a carrier for large scale fleet combat though, really any carrier works fine enough.



The Chimeras issues are three fold;
Mid slot Lock Time/Sensor Strength mods are key for pantheons, and Omnis are key for Slowcats both of which take away from its tank.
While in Triage configuration it also has capacitor issues.
Finally its fittings are CPU intensive beyond what the hull can generally handle.

Fundamentally its not a bad carrier, I can be excellent but you have to spend more isk on it to get the same performance as an Archon really, which is a problem because carriers aren't exactly survivable outside of WH space.