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Jita locked out again.... this is getting worst.

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Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#381 - 2014-02-27 09:53:55 UTC
Dealth Striker wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Quote:
Why do I say that. Because quite often Jita is full and is functioning quite well but the queue is still active. You cannot base a performance cap on number of pilots in system when the number of pilots in system != server load since the number of people undocking docking and jumping is variable.
It is variable, yes, but the variation is not that much, the stream is pretty steady. Here's the CPU graph of Jita since DT http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65822/1/Jita_CPU_25-26_Feb_2014.png and this is the general shape every day. The only difference is for long the peak lasts.
Quote:
Theoretically you could have 2100 people in Jita all docked and AFK and queues on the gates when the server is not being stressed at all. There is no pretend dynamic actual cap only a static 2100 cap based on pilots in Jita.
In theory, yes, but not practice. I never pretended the cap was dynamic, on the contrary I've stated before that the cap is not directly (dynamically) based on CPU/TiDi but it's rather picked so that long-term we keep the server at approx. 80% CPU at peak, spiking into 100%, with TiDi most of the time at 100%, dropping into 80% once in a while.

100 spammers don't contribute to load as 100 active pilots would. If we were to kick out 100 spammers to allow active pilots in then we would have to look at what is the load contribution of those 100 spammers, estimate to how many active pilots that equates and lower the cap accordingly. If more Jita dwellers were to turn into spammers and AFK'ers then we could increase the cap. That is, this is all about the mix of people in Jita and we tune the cap to reach a certain CPU/TiDi at peak based on that mix. You change the ratios in the mix and we would need to re-adjust the cap.


Well do you know what the 100 spammers are doing besides just spamming? What is to say they are doing less than an 100 active pilots that just want to dock to buy/sell and check stuff or just chat with the others?
To simple just dismiss leads me to believe you are happy to have spammers in the game.
How much processing is on everyone's block lists when spammers are blocked?
You get rid of spammers, then you might get new players and probably more people buying and selling stuff (you know a better economy).
Mind you with the amount of spammers, CCP could lose a lot of revenue lol
No matter what - make sure that block list is capable of holding 1000+ since from what I have witnessed - every spammer toon has at least 10 alts - lol



Yep, still no spam in Saisio, Abagawa, Hurtoken, Hampinen, Uoyennen, Vattuolen. If you as disgusted as I am with Spammy McSpamerson you could, you know, go somewhere else.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#382 - 2014-02-27 10:31:42 UTC
Dealth Striker wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Quote:
Why do I say that. Because quite often Jita is full and is functioning quite well but the queue is still active. You cannot base a performance cap on number of pilots in system when the number of pilots in system != server load since the number of people undocking docking and jumping is variable.
It is variable, yes, but the variation is not that much, the stream is pretty steady. Here's the CPU graph of Jita since DT http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65822/1/Jita_CPU_25-26_Feb_2014.png and this is the general shape every day. The only difference is for long the peak lasts.
Quote:
Theoretically you could have 2100 people in Jita all docked and AFK and queues on the gates when the server is not being stressed at all. There is no pretend dynamic actual cap only a static 2100 cap based on pilots in Jita.
In theory, yes, but not practice. I never pretended the cap was dynamic, on the contrary I've stated before that the cap is not directly (dynamically) based on CPU/TiDi but it's rather picked so that long-term we keep the server at approx. 80% CPU at peak, spiking into 100%, with TiDi most of the time at 100%, dropping into 80% once in a while.

100 spammers don't contribute to load as 100 active pilots would. If we were to kick out 100 spammers to allow active pilots in then we would have to look at what is the load contribution of those 100 spammers, estimate to how many active pilots that equates and lower the cap accordingly. If more Jita dwellers were to turn into spammers and AFK'ers then we could increase the cap. That is, this is all about the mix of people in Jita and we tune the cap to reach a certain CPU/TiDi at peak based on that mix. You change the ratios in the mix and we would need to re-adjust the cap.
Well do you know what the 100 spammers are doing besides just spamming? What is to say they are doing less than an 100 active pilots that just want to dock to buy/sell and check stuff or just chat with the others?
To simple just dismiss leads me to believe you are happy to have spammers in the game.
How much processing is on everyone's block lists when spammers are blocked?
You get rid of spammers, then you might get new players and probably more people buying and selling stuff (you know a better economy).
Mind you with the amount of spammers, CCP could lose a lot of revenue lol
No matter what - make sure that block list is capable of holding 1000+ since from what I have witnessed - every spammer toon has at least 10 alts - lol
If they are doing something else than spamming then they are active pilots. The rest of your comments are not relevant to server performance, or more strictly speaking to the Jita location node performance. I'm not dismissing them, they are just not relevant in the context of this forum thread.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Salvos Rhoska
#383 - 2014-02-27 10:35:26 UTC
I, for one, am perfectly happy to accept the in-game context and reality, that Jita gates are closed because the Jita Authorities cannot/will not service or handle more traffic in their autonomous system.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Esharan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#384 - 2014-02-27 15:55:06 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Spammers in Jita local don't contribute to the load that much since chat is on its own nodes. The load in Jita primarily stems from the traffic to and from the system, i.e., the transport, pilots jumping in and out of the system and docking/undocking. A fair amount of processing goes into delivering the market transactions (but the market itself is on another node). Then there is always some pew-pew to process.

Jita is by far the largest market hub in EVE but we cap it at 2175 pilots. Jita has a dedicated node to itself, one of the fleet fight nodes. Next are Amarr, Dodixie, and Rens. We don't cap them but dedicate Amarr on regular hardware.

Top stations are:

Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Amarr VIII (Oris) - Emperor Family Academy
Dodixie IX - Moon 20 - Federation Navy Assembly Plant
Rens VI - Moon 8 - Brutor Tribe Treasury



Any plans to destroy Jita - make the surrounding systems low sec (like Yulai) and creating a general panic as a new market hub is created. This would cause so much excite and market craziness. Please do.



Also what is the difference betwen a fleet fight node and a regular node?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#385 - 2014-02-27 16:40:37 UTC
Esharan wrote:

Any plans to destroy Jita - make the surrounding systems low sec (like Yulai) and creating a general panic as a new market hub is created. This would cause so much excite and market craziness. Please do.


This would be awesome as a surprise patch! On the downside due to the nature of CCP the information would leak to certain alliances giving them a huge profit while making it difficult for everyone else.
CCP Explorer
C C P
C C P Alliance
#386 - 2014-02-27 17:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Explorer
Esharan wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Spammers in Jita local don't contribute to the load that much since chat is on its own nodes. The load in Jita primarily stems from the traffic to and from the system, i.e., the transport, pilots jumping in and out of the system and docking/undocking. A fair amount of processing goes into delivering the market transactions (but the market itself is on another node). Then there is always some pew-pew to process.

Jita is by far the largest market hub in EVE but we cap it at 2175 pilots. Jita has a dedicated node to itself, one of the fleet fight nodes. Next are Amarr, Dodixie, and Rens. We don't cap them but dedicate Amarr on regular hardware.

Top stations are:

Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Amarr VIII (Oris) - Emperor Family Academy
Dodixie IX - Moon 20 - Federation Navy Assembly Plant
Rens VI - Moon 8 - Brutor Tribe Treasury


Any plans to destroy Jita - make the surrounding systems low sec (like Yulai) and creating a general panic as a new market hub is created. This would cause so much excite and market craziness. Please do.
No such plans.
Quote:
Also what is the difference betwen a fleet fight node and a regular node?
Different hardware. There are 6 different types of hardware in the cluster (7 including the DB).

The proxies run on two different types, the higher-end for EVE and the lower-end for DUST/CREST. The solarsystem and service nodes run on 4 different types, there is the stock hardware for most nodes (lowest tier), some higher-end machines (same specs as the EVE proxies), a few experiments we're trying to out, and then an x3650 M3 Everest HF box for Jita and scheduled fleet fights.

Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Senior Development Director | EVE Online // CCP Games | @CCP_Explorer
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#387 - 2014-02-27 18:43:04 UTC
I looked up the specs on the x3650 M3 Everest HF. It runs at 4.4 gHz. I doubt we will see speeds much faster. After all in one clock cycle at 4.4 gHz light travels less than 3 inches. Signals have to actually propagate from one part of the chip to another in that time, and they go slower than light.
On the other hand, it is possible for new designs to come out that get more done in one clock cycle, or need fewer cycles to do any specific task.

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#388 - 2014-02-28 05:41:52 UTC
I would eat a kitten on webcam to see Jita and/or some surrounding systems changed to lowsec, even just for a couple of weeks, to cause chaos on the market.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#389 - 2014-02-28 05:54:15 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I would eat a kitten on webcam to see Jita and/or some surrounding systems changed to lowsec, even just for a couple of weeks, to cause chaos on the market.


Well that will certainly make JF to null a lot easier :D
Nikodem Oskold
Asteroid Carving Corporation
#390 - 2014-02-28 19:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nikodem Oskold
Small suggestion about people waiting on gate for enter locked system... why don't made visible queue on gate in such case ?

*information box* Welcome Capsuler, there is only n (Your place in queue) vessels waiting for jump, please stand by... or something like that.

EDIT_1: also I don't want to irritate anyone , but I don't think that pilling up more and more players buying in single place is beneficial for the rest of eve universe, if more people would decide to use other trade super-hubs, they would decrease load on Jita and benefit other markets (I'm not trade expert, just my common sense).
Lucy tzung
Doomheim
#391 - 2014-03-02 19:34:42 UTC
Esharan wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Spammers in Jita local don't contribute to the load that much since chat is on its own nodes. The load in Jita primarily stems from the traffic to and from the system, i.e., the transport, pilots jumping in and out of the system and docking/undocking. A fair amount of processing goes into delivering the market transactions (but the market itself is on another node). Then there is always some pew-pew to process.

Jita is by far the largest market hub in EVE but we cap it at 2175 pilots. Jita has a dedicated node to itself, one of the fleet fight nodes. Next are Amarr, Dodixie, and Rens. We don't cap them but dedicate Amarr on regular hardware.

Top stations are:

Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant
Amarr VIII (Oris) - Emperor Family Academy
Dodixie IX - Moon 20 - Federation Navy Assembly Plant
Rens VI - Moon 8 - Brutor Tribe Treasury



Any plans to destroy Jita - make the surrounding systems low sec (like Yulai) and creating a general panic as a new market hub is created. This would cause so much excite and market craziness. Please do.



Also what is the difference betwen a fleet fight node and a regular node?

aww man a new alien race of bio ships we can never use but are nerfed to death starting an incursion of jita would be cool/insaine
Esmanpir
Raccoon's with LightSabers
#392 - 2014-03-03 18:16:37 UTC
I appreciate all that CCP is doing with the Jita bottleneck and keeping us informed of there efforts and results.

As this is a complex problem, there is no simple solution. However, I think the solution should also include steps to encourage people to move out of the trade hub areas and find other places to gather for non-trade activities. Can we just charge 500k per hour after the first hour in each 24-hour down-time cycle for access to all the Trade Hub systems? If a person stays in Jita for 24 hours, they'd pay 11.5m isk.
Zz Lazer
Doomheim
#393 - 2014-03-03 19:28:27 UTC
Jita should simply disappear or explode.

It would make buying and selling a lot more interesting.

Zz
Lucy tzung
Doomheim
#394 - 2014-03-03 20:09:23 UTC
Esmanpir wrote:
I appreciate all that CCP is doing with the Jita bottleneck and keeping us informed of there efforts and results.

As this is a complex problem, there is no simple solution. However, I think the solution should also include steps to encourage people to move out of the trade hub areas and find other places to gather for non-trade activities. Can we just charge 500k per hour after the first hour in each 24-hour down-time cycle for access to all the Trade Hub systems? If a person stays in Jita for 24 hours, they'd pay 11.5m isk.

maybe also remove all the offices from the hubs in jita?
Shinzhi Xadi
Doomheim
#395 - 2014-03-03 22:08:03 UTC
Don't just remove the offices, remove the other stations too. Just leave Jita there in its own basic system with no other things to distract the server node.

Its obvious that CCP can't really improve Jita much, its maxing out the fastest cpu's money can buy.

Another idea would be to make Jita some kind of 'no combat zone' where targeting other ships is blocked. Would lessen the load on the server I would think if besides the enormous ship load, it didn't have to also deal with combat data flying back and forth.

Mac Pro dual 6-core Xeon 3.06ghz, 24gig ecc ram, EVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition, Intel SSD, OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 Pro.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#396 - 2014-03-03 22:12:10 UTC
Nikodem Oskold wrote:
Small suggestion about people waiting on gate for enter locked system... why don't made visible queue on gate in such case ?

*information box* Welcome Capsuler, there is only n (Your place in queue) vessels waiting for jump, please stand by... or something like that.

EDIT_1: also I don't want to irritate anyone , but I don't think that pilling up more and more players buying in single place is beneficial for the rest of eve universe, if more people would decide to use other trade super-hubs, they would decrease load on Jita and benefit other markets (I'm not trade expert, just my common sense).


There is a visual cue - it's called 20+ ships sitting on the gate not jumping and is pretty indicative of what the situation is. A wise man once said, "If they can't go there, they should go elsewhere." Smart guy...

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#397 - 2014-03-03 22:13:29 UTC
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:

Another idea would be to make Jita some kind of 'no combat zone' where targeting other ships is blocked. Would lessen the load on the server I would think if besides the enormous ship load, it didn't have to also deal with combat data flying back and forth.


That would be extremely counterproductive. Imagine how many more ships would be in space if autopiloting in Jita was completely safe. It's ships on grid with each other that require constant distance calculations, etc.

Simply add one fiftieth of one percent to market tax rates for stations in any system with over 800 in local, and Jita will get a bit more under control. Most people will never notice that (it's only a couple hundred K on the purchase of a Marauder) but many big traders will move to other hubs. When the big traders move, business will follow.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Salvos Rhoska
#398 - 2014-03-03 23:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Simply add one fiftieth of one percent to market tax rates for stations in any system with over 800 in local, and Jita will get a bit more under control. Most people will never notice that (it's only a couple hundred K on the purchase of a Marauder) but many big traders will move to other hubs. When the big traders move, business will follow.



This. A scaling dynamic response from the NPC systems.

Makes sense also from an ingame contextual frame that the more traffic Jita (or any system) gets, that they also want a slice of the action for themselves. Ergo: Scaling and dynamic market fee related to the number of people doing business at that time in Jita. Depending on the extent of the fee, this alone already should be enougb to savy more people to do their Jita business at off peaks. Ergo, the fee would not prejudice trade, except at peak times, when it is also reasonable ghat the Jita Authorities take a higher charge for their services owing to higher demand as well as increased costs from servicing so many Capsuleers at once.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#399 - 2014-03-03 23:30:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Nikodem Oskold wrote:
Small suggestion about people waiting on gate for enter locked system... why don't made visible queue on gate in such case ?

*information box* Welcome Capsuler, there is only n (Your place in queue) vessels waiting for jump, please stand by... or something like that.

EDIT_1: also I don't want to irritate anyone , but I don't think that pilling up more and more players buying in single place is beneficial for the rest of eve universe, if more people would decide to use other trade super-hubs, they would decrease load on Jita and benefit other markets (I'm not trade expert, just my common sense).


I'm really tired of everyone calling me "Capsuleer" like I'm some kind of strange three-headed Furrier. How about "Captain" or "Admiral"?

"Welcome to Perimeter, Captain/Admiral DiMarco! (Admiral sounds better, IMO) There are currently 2031 pilots in Jita. Due to this, Jita Traffic Control has set all inbound stargates to queued mode. Please wait for the next available inbound jump."
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#400 - 2014-03-04 02:22:40 UTC
I read the entire thread. The ability of your average Jita trader to ignore facts (including statements from a CCP dev who actually works with the game) and misunderstand basic economics is truly amazing. Nobody thinks they are the problem, because they are just one person.

Well, you are the problem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

This is some serious entitlement here. Go somewhere else.

Actually, if it were possible CCP should just remove the cap from Jita so that TiDi goes into full swing there and you get to experience your dream world of an always open Jita. It might take 5 hours for your newly purchased ship to be delivered, but you saved 0.01 isk so that's good. Imagine being under maximum TiDi, forever.

Things are only impossible until they are not.