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Interesting Change in the Patchnotes
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mxzf
Shovel Bros
#1 - 2011-11-28 16:43:55 UTC
I almost missed this when I was reading through the patchnotes, but it seems to have some serious implications.

Quote:
Cloaked ships will no longer decloak other cloaked ships.


If I'm understanding that right, bomber wings are about to be crying with joy about this change. It'll be interesting to see what (if anything) develops due to this change.

I figured I'd point it out on here, in case anyone missed it.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-11-28 16:53:01 UTC
mxzf wrote:
I almost missed this when I was reading through the patchnotes, but it seems to have some serious implications.

Quote:
Cloaked ships will no longer decloak other cloaked ships.


If I'm understanding that right, bomber wings are about to be crying with joy about this change. It'll be interesting to see what (if anything) develops due to this change.

I figured I'd point it out on here, in case anyone missed it.



Indeed, the question remains: will this effect be only effective on cloaked ships in the same fleet of every cloaked ship?

Same fleet I'd say "well, good improvement for new tactics etc"

Not in the same fleet, at war, neutral: then it's a problem.
Archare
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-11-28 17:12:57 UTC
yep... just make sure that spy doesn't decloak early Twisted
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2011-11-28 17:49:18 UTC
I think it is all cloaked ships that will no longer uncloak each other. However, the chances of two completely unaligned cloaked ships coming within 2000m of each other by accident is staggeringly small.

Imagine putting two blindfolded people each somewhere in America and set them wandering around. The odds of them bumping into each other is similar to the odds of two random cloaked ships getting close enough to each other to decloak. Yes, it's theoretically possible, but it's just not going to happen.

I'm positive that the only ships that will really be affected by this are ships in fleet trying to coordinate their movement (like bomber wings). Without being in fleet, it's extremely difficult to hit a cloaked ship with your own ship, even with coordination.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#5 - 2011-11-28 18:02:43 UTC
mxzf wrote:
I think it is all cloaked ships that will no longer uncloak each other. However, the chances of two completely unaligned cloaked ships coming within 2000m of each other by accident is staggeringly small.

Imagine putting two blindfolded people each somewhere in America and set them wandering around. The odds of them bumping into each other is similar to the odds of two random cloaked ships getting close enough to each other to decloak. Yes, it's theoretically possible, but it's just not going to happen.

I'm positive that the only ships that will really be affected by this are ships in fleet trying to coordinate their movement (like bomber wings). Without being in fleet, it's extremely difficult to hit a cloaked ship with your own ship, even with coordination.


I've been uncloaked by a cloaked ship before. You have to remember that its not really "random" where people are going to be - people have the same patterns of behavior, some enforced by the game engine and others not. For instance, warping from one gate to another at 70 or 100 is a great way to get decloaked.

-Liang

Ed: I've lost ships to this, too.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Asuka Smith
StarHunt
#6 - 2011-11-28 19:09:56 UTC
I once went into a wormhole in my arazu and warped to a planet at 100 to drop probes and begin scanning. I landed on top of a nemesis that I decloaked and killed. After the changes epic kills I remember a year. later will no longer be possible.
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-11-28 20:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: m0cking bird
Is there anyway this change can make or help make Minmatar ships be even more overpowered? If so! Shouldn't we point that out in many more threads in the future?
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-11-28 20:30:49 UTC
m0cking bird wrote:
Is there anyway this change can make or help make Minmatar ships even more overpowered? If so! Shouldn't we point that out in many more threads in the future?



Ho yes lets make more whining threads about Minmatar and Goons Lol
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2011-11-28 20:43:49 UTC
I wasn't trying to say that landing on someone and uncloaking both ships doesn't happen, I know it can and does. I was mostly trying to point out that this happens infrequently enough that it's not really a valid combat tactic in the first place, so it isn't much of a loss. Yes, it will remove the random 'two cloaked ships bump into each other' kills, but you end up just never knowing that there was someone there at all (unless one of you decloaks and decloaks the other because you're still right there).
X Mary
Lousy T-Shirt Corp
#10 - 2011-11-28 22:29:48 UTC
I think that the change to corp-bookmarks makes this one a necessity.

A lot of people are going to be sharing the same tacticals.
MastahFR
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-11-29 22:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: MastahFR
Just so everyone in this game do the same thing.

Please take a fleet of 20-30 bombers, make them all land in the same spot on prober @ 0 (all cloak).
Prober goes on grid with an hostile fleet of SubCap (Mael or drake for example). He sat at 45km from main blob, if find a good align with any celestial in direction of the hostile fleet. When position is complete he ask all bomber to warp to him at 0. Then by squad he ask them to align to the celestial each 10sec for each squad. After 10sec of align all bomber of the same squad uncloak / drop bomb / warp out to celestial. For better success bring a dictor to bubble the blob.

After a few bombs, you should unlock the "welp a 800+ fleet doing nearly nothing" achievement.

If CCP actually read this please consider what I just explaining as a huge problem in game mechanic and balance, k ?
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#12 - 2011-11-29 22:42:01 UTC
m0cking bird wrote:
Is there anyway this change can make or help make Minmatar ships be even more overpowered? If so! Shouldn't we point that out in many more threads in the future?



Can you get on that? I'll go ahead and make another thread with the same content just slightly different title.

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
The Thrill
#13 - 2011-11-29 23:27:19 UTC
mxzf wrote:
the chances of two completely unaligned cloaked ships coming within 2000m of each other by accident is staggeringly small.

Imagine putting two blindfolded people each somewhere in America and set them wandering around. The odds of them bumping into each other is similar to the odds of two random cloaked ships getting close


Wrong. More muddledheaded thinking from pseudointellectuals.

Two blindolded people would never go to most places, such as North Dakota or Maine. They would head for a major place and that is mere a handfull of choices : Hollyweird, Chicago or based on most avatars, San Fran. Cloaked ships are going to be near access points and conflict points, i.e. a tiny volume in the solar system. Maybe you should actually fly cloaked Junior.


 Cruicible - oh noes, I like it!
Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
#14 - 2011-11-30 00:21:46 UTC
Archare wrote:
yep... just make sure that spy doesn't decloak early Twisted



thats half the fun of this. Slow networks to server, slow computers.....man it wasn't me who decloaked first, I saw joe first.

Joe goes nah man I saw tom do it first.

Tom is passing the buck to John.




If anything just means instead of shooting for the cap/super spy to get details on the "secret" jump ops....sneak in some lowby alt or player to fuxor up sb ops.
Goose99
#15 - 2011-11-30 04:20:06 UTC
One of those days, you will land somewhere and chain decloak a whole field of field of sbs.Big smile
Smiley Smile
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2011-11-30 04:28:56 UTC
WH pilots routinely hit the zero and 100 points, align and cruise, etc, to decloak scanners and scouts. It works pretty well a lot of times. This nerfs hunting but buffs hiding. Net neutral, for me.
Addrake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2011-11-30 08:14:37 UTC
MastahFR wrote:
Just so everyone in this game do the same thing.

Please take a fleet of 20-30 bombers, make them all land in the same spot on prober @ 0 (all cloak).
Prober goes on grid with an hostile fleet of SubCap (Mael or drake for example). He sat at 45km from main blob, if find a good align with any celestial in direction of the hostile fleet. When position is complete he ask all bomber to warp to him at 0. Then by squad he ask them to align to the celestial each 10sec for each squad. After 10sec of align all bomber of the same squad uncloak / drop bomb / warp out to celestial. For better success bring a dictor to bubble the blob.

After a few bombs, you should unlock the "welp a 800+ fleet doing nearly nothing" achievement.

If CCP actually read this please consider what I just explaining as a huge problem in game mechanic and balance, k ?



Seriously.. Then that fleet fails at checking directional for incoming dictors, and fails at aligning to warp out in case of a bomber run. It's not an 'easy kill' so long as people aren't asleep at the wheel. This makes bombers more 'entry level' for 0.0 alliance recruits. Not just in training but in 'required skill' as well. More people in 0.0 is what we need and this opens up an avenue for new players to try their hand at Null. Just means I can't peruse reddit as much as I'd like during ops.
Songbird
#18 - 2011-11-30 10:19:18 UTC
I thought that if you launch more than 5 bombs the first 5 that blow up will destroy all the rest since EHP of a bomb is not real high. Still - a smart FC could stagger the bombing runs I suppose.