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What is the current L4 King?
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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#61 - 2014-01-21 16:10:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Perhaps the title was too vague, to me a LVL-4 king is the ship that does missions the fastest. Others might like the AFK nature of a ship, or no ammo expense, or longest range (So no work moving around).

I would say a ship that does less than 1000dps is certainly not a mission king. As for tank that's a bit deceptive I can do some mission without ever turning on a booster; just DPS everything before it gets close enough to hit. But if needed I can tank well over 2000dps for at least 3 minutes. So tank is not really an issue for missions, unless you can't tank then you need to start over.

Mission King is also entirely dependant on skills, the new 'ISIS' addition to eve actually helps a little in the skills planning, but without perfect Core skills it's hard to ever realise the full potential of any ship. I know when I first tried Artillery I was sure after I docked back up I would never use them again, low DPS and long wait for cycle made me miserable, now I easily cover 1000dps with Artillery and find it extremely useful. especially when each gun does over 2000ehp volleys.

So to the OP, pick a ship, train everything, and your ship will be 'The King of LVL-4'

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Cyber Op
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2014-02-23 17:29:49 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Perhaps the title was too vague, to me a LVL-4 king is the ship that does missions the fastest. Others might like the AFK nature of a ship, or no ammo expense, or longest range (So no work moving around).

I would not say a ship that does less than 1000dps is certainly not a mission king. As for tank that's a bit deceptive I can do some mission without ever turning on a booster; just DPS everything before it gets close enough to hit. But if needed I can tank well over 2000dps for at least 3 minutes. So tank is not really an issue for missions, unless you can't tank then you need to start over.

Mission King is also entirely dependant on skills, the new 'ISIS' addition to eve actually helps a little in the skills planning, but without perfect Core skills it's hard to ever realise the full potential of any ship. I know when I first tried Artillery I was sure after I docked back up I would never use them again, low DPS and long wait for cycle made me miserable, now I easily cover 1000dps with Artillery and find it extremely useful. especially when each gun does over 2000ehp volleys.

So to the OP, pick a ship, train everything, and your ship will be 'The King of LVL-4'


Fleet Typhoon very SP intensive amazing applied dmg can armor or shield tank it depending on preference. The damage it out puts with cruise missiles plus sentries is scary . If you feeling really brave 3-4bcu's 3 drone dmg and shield tank it CPU can be kinda of tight on this ship.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2014-02-24 10:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilbaron
my experience says that mission runners buy a lot more cruise missiles than any other ammo type Blink
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#64 - 2014-02-24 11:09:16 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
IIshira wrote:
+5 Garde II's I'm guessing


[Machariel, Missions]

7x 800mm Repeating Cannon II (Hail L)
Automated Targeting Unit I

Pithum A-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Gist X-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Federation Navy Tracking Computer (Optimal Range Script)

4x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
2x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Damage Control II

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II

4x Garde II
5x Warrior II

[Statistics - Goldiiee]

Effective HP: 108,145 (Eve: 93,472)
Tank Ability: 1,485.47 DPS
Capacitor (Lasts 2m 43s)
Volley Damage: 4,594.55
DPS: 1,434.72 With 5x warriors
DPS: 1,597.21 With 4x Guards
DPS: 1,800.79 With Heat and 4x Guards

[Implants - Mission Clone]

Slot 6: Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-606
Slot 7: Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Motion Prediction MR-706
Slot 9: Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-906
Slot 10: Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Large Projectile Turret LP-1006

There, I made it easy for the trolls.

Edit: Oops forgot a rig. added and fixed.


this one can run any LVL4 in 0.2 for far less isk

Quote:
[Machariel, Machariel - PVE]

7x 800mm Repeating Cannon II

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Kaikka's Modified X-Large Shield Booster
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I

Damage Control II
3x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
3x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I




you can find better isk/ratio than the Kaikka's indeed, i never bothered since i bought it for 100M isk, and it is tanky enought provided you switch resist / drones accordingly

no need to switch resist with 2 factions invuln
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2014-02-24 19:34:34 UTC
I use an Ishtar.

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#66 - 2014-02-26 06:02:45 UTC
Just a quick note to anyone reading this thread. EFT DPS is not actually what you get.

For any ship using Blasters, Autocannons or Artillery, you can safely half the DPS from EFT. Anyone telling you they get 1400 DPS with an autocannon ship (Hi Goldiiiiiiiiii) doesn't understand how falloff works.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#67 - 2014-02-26 09:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Yes you're right Paikis, projectiles have a 'Chance to hit' added to the possible DPS, and anyone choosing to use projectiles should try to understand Falloff and how it affects your DPS.

So with a theoretical 1400 DPS there's a 'sort of' bell curve; I will be doing 700 DPS at 65km, and 1,120 DPS at 40km and only doing the full 1400 DPS at 6-10 km losing 5% as distance approaches 20 km (1330 DPS at 20km).

For artillery I do 1,111 DPS from 20km out to 60km, then fall to only 80% or 888DPS at coincidentally 88km, I will be getting 50% (Or 555 DPS) at 130 KM.

Here's a chart against a cruiser sized object at 200m/s full transversal to make it easier to understand.
http://imgur.com/Cg1ZUEN

Probably wont help till you actually experience it first hand, but at least it gives an idea of what to expect, and how to improve your applicable DPS by choosing the right guns/ammunition for the job.

Edit; These are the 'Chance to hit' and DPS from my skills, anyone else will have different skills and implants and will have a different mental graph, best to use a fitting tool and make the graph for yourself, or you could be way off on the estimates.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2014-02-26 12:53:25 UTC
kekek draek pls.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
haga daga
Catsoup Empire
#69 - 2014-02-27 14:08:18 UTC
Machariel.

Resoning:
DPS is higher on guns alone than most ships.
Ships with higher dps travel slower or apply it less effectively over a smaller scope of range
Damage is adaptable
Speed tank is hilarious on a battleship

Downside
not the highest tank, not comparable to a marauder but good for most missions.
high ammo cost.
Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
#70 - 2014-03-01 09:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dino Zavr
Hi

may i, please, add one more suggestion:
as rather young piot i fly only Gallente ships and cannot compare what i feel about missiles/shilds ships, and, yes, i can use EFT to estimate damage projecions at different hulls/fits, however, theorycraft numbers are really not flying the ship and be comfortable with it.
I always fit Damage Control II to my sentry Dominix (because my fit includes deadspace LAR) and i really don't want to meet a surprise bunch of tornadoes at some random gates, so i fly with DC "always on" (hoping huge Gallente structure HP would make my ship way less interesting for suicide gankers). There are at least 6 Tornadoes (100kk each) necessary to volley my 70k EHP and expensive (380kk) LAR drop chance is only 50%, this is why suiciding my L4 ship is not much economical-wise. Faction EANMs do not cost a lemon and the rest modules of my Domi are incredibly cheap.
Thus, i'm afraid, fitting uber-expensive modules at MJD battleships with mediocre tank makes them vulnerable. Highsec is not that safe after all. Travelling in gank-proof fit and then refitting for specific mission is OK, but it is kinda annoying. Senty Dominix provides one universal fit safe and comfortable to fly, easy to control and minimum management. So my personal definition of "the best" is the overall best: reliable, convinient, relatively safe, and well.. budget-wise to be replaced soon if lost.. not just the DPS king with shining over billion price tag
Still have no skills to try Kronos but in next several months i'll definitely give it a test. Invulnerability to damps and jams seems so attractive vs Serpentis and Guristas.

Fly safe
Fatimer Lightspeed
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2014-03-02 22:52:53 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:

Goldiiee wrote:
Yeah around 4 bil, and another 3.7bil? I think for implants.

I take extreme precautions, never just sit at the warp in, always fly in a fleet with an OGB and a cloaked Tackle/Buffer cruiser in system or in the last room, only drop a MTU (and BM) when I leave the room, and only fly in systems I know away from the gank magnet hubs..


Are you crazy? Just keep d-scan up and watch for combat probes. Keeping another account logged in to save you is rediculous.

IF you are at a huge mission hub ESPECIALLY SOE, yes, you may get ganked. Otherwise it looks like your jumping at shadows.

I have been doing this for 4 years now, I don't jump at shadows, I don't fly what I can't afford to lose and I have never lost a ship to a Gank.

Anyone doing SOE LP, is asking to get ganked. Much easier and safer to make 1 million Concord LP in a week and use the LP exchange.



A million LP a week? That's got to be the best part of 150 missions a week. Pretty impressive if you are.
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#72 - 2014-03-03 03:29:05 UTC
Fatimer Lightspeed wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:

Goldiiee wrote:
Yeah around 4 bil, and another 3.7bil? I think for implants.

I take extreme precautions, never just sit at the warp in, always fly in a fleet with an OGB and a cloaked Tackle/Buffer cruiser in system or in the last room, only drop a MTU (and BM) when I leave the room, and only fly in systems I know away from the gank magnet hubs..


Are you crazy? Just keep d-scan up and watch for combat probes. Keeping another account logged in to save you is rediculous.

IF you are at a huge mission hub ESPECIALLY SOE, yes, you may get ganked. Otherwise it looks like your jumping at shadows.

I have been doing this for 4 years now, I don't jump at shadows, I don't fly what I can't afford to lose and I have never lost a ship to a Gank.

Anyone doing SOE LP, is asking to get ganked. Much easier and safer to make 1 million Concord LP in a week and use the LP exchange.



A million LP a week? That's got to be the best part of 150 missions a week. Pretty impressive if you are.

Sorry that wasn't very clear; Concord LP is from Incursions, and that is where I can make up to a million LP a week. I don't think I have the patience to do that many missions a week. :)

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Fatimer Lightspeed
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2014-03-03 08:11:33 UTC
Goldiiee wrote:
Fatimer Lightspeed wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:
Noxisia Arkana wrote:

Goldiiee wrote:
Yeah around 4 bil, and another 3.7bil? I think for implants.

I take extreme precautions, never just sit at the warp in, always fly in a fleet with an OGB and a cloaked Tackle/Buffer cruiser in system or in the last room, only drop a MTU (and BM) when I leave the room, and only fly in systems I know away from the gank magnet hubs..


Are you crazy? Just keep d-scan up and watch for combat probes. Keeping another account logged in to save you is rediculous.

IF you are at a huge mission hub ESPECIALLY SOE, yes, you may get ganked. Otherwise it looks like your jumping at shadows.

I have been doing this for 4 years now, I don't jump at shadows, I don't fly what I can't afford to lose and I have never lost a ship to a Gank.

Anyone doing SOE LP, is asking to get ganked. Much easier and safer to make 1 million Concord LP in a week and use the LP exchange.



A million LP a week? That's got to be the best part of 150 missions a week. Pretty impressive if you are.

Sorry that wasn't very clear; Concord LP is from Incursions, and that is where I can make up to a million LP a week. I don't think I have the patience to do that many missions a week. :)


Ah haha. Was going to say! Does the incursion LP have the same rate per isk as the missions LP?
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#74 - 2014-03-03 08:31:31 UTC
Fatimer Lightspeed wrote:
Goldiiee wrote:

Sorry that wasn't very clear; Concord LP is from Incursions, and that is where I can make up to a million LP a week. I don't think I have the patience to do that many missions a week. :)


Ah haha. Was going to say! Does the incursion LP have the same rate per isk as the missions LP?

Concord LP store has some items that get 2k isk/lp pretty easily, the nest advantage is you can convert concord LP for most faction LP (At a reduced value). An astute Marketer can get upward of 3k isk/lp and I have gotten 4500 isk/lp on an item before (But not recently).

Simple answer; Yes Concord LP can you get you from 1000isk/lp to 2500isk/lp pretty easily.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#75 - 2014-03-03 15:17:49 UTC
I think the king is the ham tengu and blitzing l4s for SoE LP.

Cheap hull, roughly 700m all in with dead space booster and navy bcu's
Far lower SP requirements then a BS
Easily and consistantly capable of 100m/hour
Pretty much gank proof as align and warp speeds are fast off of gates and stations, you're spending less then 10 mins in a dead space site and the over all cheapness of the modules make it an unlikely gank target.

It does require more attention and knowledge of missions then an afk marauder or standard bs.
It's locked into kin damage making the ability to decline pesky blockade missions a necessity.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#76 - 2014-03-04 13:10:01 UTC
It depends on your style (how you like to fly).

I would say it's either Marachiel, Vindicator or Navy Typhoon for that area. Nightmare is nothing to sniff at either, but that is not exactly the best knife to take into missions in Caldari space.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-03-05 02:35:57 UTC
As some have stated, your style has the most impact on which ship is the best for you. I prefer heavy tanked ships with good DPS because I fly three at a time so my attention gets split and I don't like having to micro shields, targets, cap, and drones to maximize DPS.

I've used Raven, Rattler, Tengu, Rokh, Maelstrom, Macherial, and SNI for lvl 4s and my favorite is the SNI. Great tank, solid DPS, I don't have to fool with sentry drones, and it just plain looks good.

If I was only going to fly one ship I'd probably pump money into a Mach and hope I don't get ganked. The Mach with ACs is amazing and I used one as my main DPS up until the aggro nerf caused me to almost lose it a few times before I decided to leave it in the hangar for something with more tank.

I prefer the Rattler over the Domi because I like shield tanks and missiles, but if I was an armor/gun person the Domi makes a lot more sense.

The Rokh, Raven, and Maelstrom are all solid second choices if funding is an issue or you prefer rails.

The Tengu was a beast before the HML nerf, now though there's just no point in pulling it out of the hangar because it just doesn't have the DPS projection I want in my mission runners.

There are also laser boat options, but I don't fly amarr so I can't provide any advice on them.

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#78 - 2014-03-05 19:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
I didn't run any since drone thingy change ...omnis I think but I still think navy domi in glass cannon setup is my favorite being able to swap tank or guns on the fly is just added perk.

helping some dude a few month back to get l4 sister standings using blaster talos was a blast thing get go hull fast but man it is fun to buzz around spewing 1500dps.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#79 - 2014-03-06 04:11:59 UTC
I don't think the Rattlesnake will still be in the running after Summer and the rebalance.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Kyperion
#80 - 2014-03-06 08:24:16 UTC
I am having an absolute blast in an ishtar right now. MWD to 60-100 KM, stop ship, drop sentries, rinse and repeat if anything closes before it dies. Seems like a lot of times after I get to my preferred range, NPCs wont even be firing at me. Half tempted to drop the active tank for more speed, be kinda cool to get MWD speed to around 2000.

I've been wondering if I could get the same level of performance out of a Cerberus or Vagabond... it'd be nice to be able to not have to worry about scooping the sentries if kill time isnt fast enough. But on EFT it seems like even with all Tech 2 weapons and Level V skills the non drone boat HAC are about either half the range or half the DPS.

Has anybody tried the new Tech 2 Battlecruisers in Lvl 4s? I really enjoy not being a lumbering potato but a MWD/Afterburner T2 BC might be a good compromise between staying power and speed.