These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

[Discussion] Skill Queue Option for Service Members
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#1 - 2014-03-03 05:34:16 UTC
Context

As a former service member, who spent seven years active duty, I feel that this option should be discussed to determine viability, usability, and interest with the overall community. In 2007, I was stationed at Camp Victory, Baghdad, Iraq; during which time, I met a service member who was struggling with the deployment and I was asked by my chain of command to talk with him and try to help him. While helping him, I learned that he was a huge fan of a computer game called Eve Online. Noticing his enthusiasm with this game, I figured that a solid option would be to try the game to at least give us something in common, which would help me in helping him. After seeing him flying around in his drake, seeing the cool cloaking mechanic... on that same drake, I was immediately in love with this game.

Fast forward eight months, I was returning from my deployment, where I had deployed as an individual augmentee with the Army; I waived my option to forego a sea deployment aboard my ship. I was honestly very upset with the fact that I was going to be unable to play this game, mostly because it was so helpful during my previous deployment, but I was also irritated that even though I couldn't play, I also wouldn't be able train skills. So, the other day, while discussing my CSM campaign with a few friends, one of them mentioned that it was irritating to him that he was facing a deployment and he was going to have to let his skill queue lapse.

Idea

So the feature I'd like to propose to the community is an opportunity for service members to have the ability to have an extended training queue to help with deployments. I was fortunate with an opportunity to have internet at the base I was stationed in Iraq, however for sailors, soldiers, and others that deploy to areas without internet or don't have an opportunity to utilize the Eve Client, I'd like to discuss an option. Please understand that I'm basing this from my personal experience and the U.S. Armed Forces, but I'd like to hear from others as well about their views specific to Skill Queue Options they'd like to see, personally, military or other circumstances that would benefit from an extended skill queue.

Feature: CCP-enabled Skill Queue for an account/character.

Implementation: [Option] Create an Evegate feature for a player to login, read a ToS to protect the players and the company, submit a specific email that would be recognized by the system as a service members "work" email and send them an activation link. Once the link is sent, the service member could verify with the company that they are legitimately in the service. This could be extended to other groups, dependent on community's views/ideas.

Issues: Thus far, this idea would be exploitable by anyone with a service member email address, so I'm open to suggestions and help with this idea. Also, I would think some members of the community may find this unfair, so your thoughts, ideas, and concerns are also appreciated. I'm sure there are other issues, and I haven't determined if an established "lenght" for the skill queue or the feature on a player's account.

Please share your ideas and suggestions, and let's determine if this is a viable option for the community to escalate this discussion with CCP. Thanks!

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe
Connor Mena
Seker Solutions
Seker Academy
#2 - 2014-03-03 05:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Connor Mena
I've been thinking about this for a long time the only possible way i could see this working is to have CCP send a mail to your ako/dko account but tbh you shouldn't be useing it for this kind of stuff ntm not all countries that play eve have a mil spec e-mail sys for their troops.

so I have just come to the conclusion that CCP should add a list of "trusted IP's" to your account so as to have peeps babysit your account while your deployed.

also tbh eve isn't really that high on my list of things to be conserned with while yes it sucks not haveing interwebz in camp so and so in so and so prov fighting mr. evil and his gang of mountain climbing flip flopers i find watching AA death blosoming a lake trying to catch fish much more entertaining than eve.

btw if you aint cav...
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#3 - 2014-03-03 05:53:09 UTC
I like the idea. As you say though, it does seem exploitable, as well as requiring a significant amount of continual work on CCP's part to continue maintaining a list of "Allowed" email sources, permitted accounts, and the like. It also provides no allowance for when a service member is not on deployment, where it becomes flat preferential treatment.

A workaround that would be much less open to exploitation would be the ability through account management to set your account to a state where you are unable to actively log in, but are capable of queuing up an extended period of skills through an interface.

This would permit people in the service or those in general who for some reason believe they will be unable to log in for an extended period of time to set up a skill training que in advance, at the cost of being unable to log into Tranquility while any skill in the que begins after the 24 hour mark.

It would also be considerably less work (most likely) to implement as compared to the continual maintenance / prone to abuse system you originally proposed.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#4 - 2014-03-03 06:00:18 UTC
Anhenka wrote:


This seems like a great idea and would be perfect to support service members as well as cover the issue with exploitation. The question then becomes would CCP be willing to allow players to inhibit Client Login, then allow them extended skill queue options.

This would also address any concerns with preferential treatment to a specific group and would allow all players other options for skill training. Thanks!

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-03-03 06:56:16 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
one of them mentioned that it was irritating to him that he was facing a deployment and he was going to have to let his skill queue lapse.
That's a true Eve player right there.

I do like this idea and think that Anhenka's suggestion would work best for anyone who expects to be off;ine for an extended period of time. CCP still gets their subscription and the player doesn't lose any time or have to deal with the frustration of dredging up an internet connection in the middle of bumfuck nowhere-ville. And if the account were switched to a mode where you couldnt actively log in then CCP gauruntees the system isn't being abused by an active player. The only way I see this going wrong in any way is if someone opened an account and immediately used the extended queue right off the bat to train a character (for instance a logistics, or mining alt) into the skills and then activate or sell the character once they were ready. But I think that's already somewhat possible already and not exactly a big deal or against any rules.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-03-03 08:29:19 UTC
Maybe CCP could require some kind of document showing you are actually going to be deployed before sending your account into this mode?

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-03-03 08:49:56 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Maybe CCP could require some kind of document showing you are actually going to be deployed before sending your account into this mode?



opsec, or operational security....kind of hard to keep when you send your orders to strangers on the internet.

Data wise on ccp's end...they now enter 1 if not more levels of compliance regulation for the data on the orders. CC data they store is just one level of compliance. This level of PII....would be real fun. I know as part of our PCI compliance readiness the purging of any and all non essential data was done. Limits the scope. Smaller the scope, smaller the footprint you have to worry about getting nailed on. Smaller being relative....even card data in PCI DSS regs keeps you real busy.
Lina Theist
Running out of Space
ExoGenesis Consortium
#8 - 2014-03-03 09:50:02 UTC
Yes, I am an astronaut and I'm having trouble connecting to TQ while in space
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#9 - 2014-03-03 10:02:03 UTC
As a serviceman myself, I can see where this would be appreciated.

However, I can also see where it would be pretty hard to verify. It would be far simpler to have some kind of clemency program for loaning someone else your account to queue your skills while deployed.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#10 - 2014-03-03 10:56:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
Why preferencial treatment to military services tho?
There is so many other occupations that have similar issues, and excluding them would be unfair. And including them would make it near impossible for CCP to have a sensible verification process.

Examples that come to mind are.. players working on oil rigs or civilian ships for several weeks. Players that do charity / aid work in development countries. Players that are members of relief organisation and deployed at disaster areas.

I somewhat approve of Anhenka's idea but I also see a risk here which ties right into the reason CCP wants us to log in for skills in the first place. Active subscribers should log in at least occasionally - because in Eve its he players that are the content and even a short "logging in to update skills" can lead to a convo and more.
See, just because it's intended for those that cannot run the client for an extended period of time it will also be used by players who are semi-active/inactive. And if those activate this feature they won't even be able to log in at all. But CCP (and the community, I hope) wants them to log in.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-03-03 11:12:32 UTC
Just set a long skill then let the account lapse. And if you are that worried about missing out on training time then get a trusted friend or family member to log into your account to simply update the skills.

Also, as Sephira says, what if someone goes abroad for charity work, or what if someone simply wants to take a two month holiday to a place with no internet connection. It is not realistic to expect CCP to develop and implement a X month long training que, and also for your army generals to receive or send confirmation like this simply to keep an in game training que active.
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#12 - 2014-03-03 12:11:55 UTC
I have a Corpmate who suffers form this. When based overseas its a shoddy satlink to get online for eve skilling if he's lucky, otherwise he's paid for something that he cant use. We actually resort to sending him USB keys with the install files to as he is limited in time and bandwidth. Major patches are a PITA.

What would be nice is 'backup' skills, you could push in a few long trains to cover 3 months that would be done if you were disconnected .. stuck overseas, in hospital, on honeymoon, or like me ... on oil rigs .
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#13 - 2014-03-03 12:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Riot Girl
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
As a serviceman myself, I can see where this would be appreciated.

However, I can also see where it would be pretty hard to verify. It would be far simpler to have some kind of clemency program for loaning someone else your account to queue your skills while deployed.

Character Bazaar? It's not an ideal solution, but it is a solution nonetheless.

Oh god.
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#14 - 2014-03-03 12:16:16 UTC
Internet spaceship = serious business

Joking aside, I agree with people that says that this shouldn't be restricted for military only. It would be interesting to have this feature for anyone who would be without access to the game for extended periods of time.

That said, I believe there could be an ingame service for those cases. Something like this:

Hibernation Clone

The character would be jump cloned to a special clone in an hibernation chamber. In the chamber the clone is not allowed to perform any activitie, except perhaps to use comunication and being able to view his assets.

This clone wouldn't have any implants (as every new jump clone doesn't), and there would be a training penalty to the skill training time. I'm not sure what would be balanced enough in that case, but things I can think of include a +1 training multiplier (Skills with a 1x multiplied become 2x, 2x become 3x and so on) or a "forced" remap to the minimun value in all attributes (17 I think)

When you activate the Hibernation Clone, you set up the skill queue you'd like to have for the month. This skill queue cannot be changed while the character is hibernating, but you'd be able to place several months of training sequentially. Not sure how this part would work, since you'd have to pay "up front"

This service would cost a Plex for a month, much like the price for training a second character. It could also be interrupted at any time, but this would cause any service time left to be lost. That way it would not be fesible to abuse this feature to trainh characters for selling, as it would cost at least double the price to train, and it would take longer. However, for anyone concerned enough with their main character, it would be a way of keep training while you don't have access to the game
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#15 - 2014-03-03 12:20:11 UTC
Idea:

Allow pilots to select a broad certification/mastery tree to focus on (example: Amarr Spaceship Command). When your skill queue lapses, it defaults to training a random skill from that tree (assuming it's injected). SP time is not wasted, and exploit potential is low due to the randomness factor. Avoids the need to verify anything or force people to lock themselves out of their own account.

Profit????

Overhaul Dscan!
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#16 - 2014-03-03 14:28:14 UTC
This is a great idea to support service members every where. Thank them for their service and sacrifice!
Lady Areola Fappington
#17 - 2014-03-03 14:48:29 UTC
Speaking as a disabled combat vet, please don't wrap your current "thing I want from CCP" with a "Support the troops!" banner.

Leaving out the fact that CCP is an Icelandic company, and has zero incentive to deify US soldiers, most servicemember know how to tend to things like online game accounts during deployments. I did it 3 times, my soldiers who played Eve did it, it's not hard.

I'd rather have everyone treated equally in EVE as is. No reason a soldier should be getting speshul service, when a doctor volunteering time with MSF/DWB cannot get the same.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-03-03 15:53:27 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Just set a long skill then let the account lapse. And if you are that worried about missing out on training time then get a trusted friend or family member to log into your account to simply update the skills.

Also, as Sephira says, what if someone goes abroad for charity work, or what if someone simply wants to take a two month holiday to a place with no internet connection. It is not realistic to expect CCP to develop and implement a X month long training que, and also for your army generals to receive or send confirmation like this simply to keep an in game training que active.

I really think this feature shouldn't be restricted to anyone for any purpose. If you are going on a long trip where you expect to be away from eve for a while, then it would be useful to you. As easy as finding a trusted friend sounds, trying to find someone who is responsible enough to keep up with the skillqeue and someone who understands the skilltree is somewhat difficult if you don't already have friends who play (I know most of my friends are dumb as bricks).

I really don't think this service needs to be restricted simply to the military. I think a simple fee to set an account into a restricted access mode would be enough. You could qeue up skills you already have at least injected for as long as you see fit. Once you have returned from wherever you went, you would reactivate your account to normal. CCP could charge an extra fee if your extended period doesn't reach a certain timeframe.

I think theres plenty of ways to work with this and make it available to everyone.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#19 - 2014-03-03 15:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Speaking as a disabled combat vet, please don't wrap your current "thing I want from CCP" with a "Support the troops!" banner.

Leaving out the fact that CCP is an Icelandic company, and has zero incentive to deify US soldiers, most servicemember know how to tend to things like online game accounts during deployments. I did it 3 times, my soldiers who played Eve did it, it's not hard.

I'd rather have everyone treated equally in EVE as is. No reason a soldier should be getting speshul service, when a doctor volunteering time with MSF/DWB cannot get the same.


And it would be a special service. CCP would have to take special effort to verify and provide this only to deployed soldiers while denying it to the rest of the community. And then what, CCP is now responsible for liasing with militaries from countries across the globe? Furthermore, Eve players are very opinionated. I think there would be many that would object to this on political grounds, or see it as an endorsement of the actions of a state, a military, or soldiers themselves. I think a lot of Eve players would have objected had CCP provided this service to soldiers in Iraq, and I think I personally might object to it being provided to Russian soldiers invading Ukraine.

This idea seems both completely impractical (as proposed) and fundamentally questionable.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Lady Areola Fappington
#20 - 2014-03-03 16:24:05 UTC
Batelle wrote:


And it would be a special service. CCP would have to take special effort to verify and provide this only to deployed soldiers while denying it to the rest of the community. And then what, CCP is now responsible for liasing with militaries from countries across the globe? Furthermore, Eve players are very opinionated. I think there would be many that would object to this on political grounds, or see it as an endorsement of the actions of a state, a military, or soldiers themselves. I think a lot of Eve players would have objected had CCP provided this service to soldiers in Iraq, and I think I personally might object to it being provided to Russian soldiers invading Ukraine.

This idea seems both completely impractical (as proposed) and fundamentally questionable.



Yeah. I was just chatting with friends too, I'm sure our Russian military players would really appreciate this idea, what wih the dust-up in the Ukraine.

It would put CCP in a political position to be sure, that it otherwise wouldn't need.

Like I said, anyone looking at any sort of absence from EVE, long term or not, knows how to handle skill queue issues. Worst comes to worst, you come home to a skill level at 5 you never planned on waiting for anyway.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
12Next page