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Whats considered CCP's Intellectual Property?

Author
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
#41 - 2011-11-28 19:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Karsun
Since this may actually be a serious question - I'll give you a serious anwser: it depends.

Different countries have different laws regarding intellectual property ownership, but there are also some international laws.

Obvious stuff (simplified):
All registered trademarks are intellectual property.
Everything created by a human is his intellectual property unless the ownership or right to use has been transfered willingly by the person. Even at that moment the creator, according to some countries laws, is still the rightfull owner and has only transfered the right to fully use his intellectual property.

Less obvious:
All patterns that have the creator still living are intellectual property even without registration. It depends what kind, since there are 2 kinds, but it still is intellectual property.

I can't really even start explaining to you how much stuff is covered by intellectual property laws. It's a huge branch of law you need to memorize to fully understand it. But as a rule of thumb - something is intellectual property if it is unique in any way.


EDIT:

Oh I forgot to add... It all works unless you live in China. China has no laws regarding intellectual property protection, the China goverment has also offitially stated (many times) that they will not protect anyones intellectual property. That's why you've got tonns of factories in China producing equipment and labling it "nike" or whatever while the quality is totally not as good as the real thing. There are no consequences for that in China.

"Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976

Vicker Lahn'se
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2011-11-28 19:41:52 UTC
Three pages and nobody called "troll"? Nobody's stupid enough to ask for legal advice on the EvE forums rather than speaking to a professional.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#43 - 2011-11-28 19:42:55 UTC
Vicker because some of us know that trolls have a hard time digesting good fiberous information.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#44 - 2011-11-28 22:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Astrid Stjerna
Mara Villoso wrote:

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The copyright wouldn't extend to you because, by definition, Megaman is not your original work. If you or anyone else took the picture you drew and tried to sell it or license it, that person could be sued by Megaman's owners. The only person you could sue would be Megaman's owners if they took your work and tried to make money off it. I don't think you'd be able to make the argument "hey that guy stole the stuff I stole" and get away with it, not least because you'd have to show damages and all you would be able to demonstrate is your liability to Megaman's creators.


Megaman is not my original work, but the drawing is considered an 'original work'; Capcom can sue me to stop my use of their trademarked image (assuming that I'm using it commercially), but they can't file suit over my being able to draw Megaman.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Mara Villoso
Long Jump.
#45 - 2011-11-29 01:38:38 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Megaman is not my original work, but the drawing is considered an 'original work'; Capcom can sue me to stop my use of their trademarked image (assuming that I'm using it commercially), but they can't file suit over my being able to draw Megaman.

Which is why I said you might be able to sue Capcom if they used your particular drawing. However, while they wouldn't be able to sue you for just drawing Megaman at home, they could sue you for displaying it publicly, whether or not you made any money off it. As owners of the copyright, they control all rights to all displays of their work. Its easy enough to test. Draw picture of Minnie Mouse and Mickey Mouse having sex, post it to a public website, and see how long it takes to get a cease and desist order (or for the site host to get a removal notice).
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#46 - 2011-11-29 01:46:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
make me wonder about my fan ships... well ccp hasnt sent me a letter yet not like im trying to sell it or something but its getting me alot of hits/views every time i post a higher than my usual quality ship usually an eve online one so wouldnt know if that be profiting.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#47 - 2011-11-30 21:58:52 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
make me wonder about my fan ships... well ccp hasnt sent me a letter yet not like im trying to sell it or something but its getting me alot of hits/views every time i post a higher than my usual quality ship usually an eve online one so wouldnt know if that be profiting.


Well, in the case of spacecraft it gets a little nebulous (no pun intended).

You can't copyright the idea of a ship that travels in space (though you can copyright a specific spaceship, so long as it's distinct in some way), so -- unless you use CCP's proprietary vessel names or designs, you're pretty much covered.

'Distinct', in a legal sense, usually means 'posessing a feature that would reasonably not appear on a typical example of its kind'.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Poastmortem
#48 - 2011-12-05 21:30:40 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
Honestly, it does not matter what the law says about IP. If a company as large as CCP takes offense at you using similar ideas to theirs, they will just bury you in court and legal fees.

Unfortunately these matters are usually decided by who has the bigger wallet.





This reminds me, what ever happened to that robot game?
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#49 - 2011-12-05 21:42:51 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
make me wonder about my fan ships... well ccp hasnt sent me a letter yet not like im trying to sell it or something but its getting me alot of hits/views every time i post a higher than my usual quality ship usually an eve online one so wouldnt know if that be profiting.


Well, in the case of spacecraft it gets a little nebulous (no pun intended).

You can't copyright the idea of a ship that travels in space (though you can copyright a specific spaceship, so long as it's distinct in some way), so -- unless you use CCP's proprietary vessel names or designs, you're pretty much covered.

'Distinct', in a legal sense, usually means 'posessing a feature that would reasonably not appear on a typical example of its kind'.


Which is where trade mark steps in. I slap logos of the npcs corps onto the ships name the ships inline with the races and style the ship heavily after said races only exceptions are my SOE thukker and modrus ships.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

yumike
Doomheim
#50 - 2011-12-05 21:44:06 UTC  |  Edited by: yumike
deleted.
yumike
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-12-05 21:45:35 UTC
OP, the short answer is as long as it isn't:

1.) being sold
2.) hurting CCP's image/income (slander included)
3.) restricted in some way (buy x to do y)

You're basically fine.

Intellectual property as one of the posts described quite well Dr Karsun can be almost anything that is considered unique.

E.g things like experience systems are far from unique and incredibly diverse amongst mmo's, Orc warriors on the other hand? Not so much (This is partially why blizzard's subpeona's keep failing, Aside from lore they have little basis for IP infringement)

The long and the short of it, if you're just doing it for learning, the experience or even testing a theory you are fine.

If it was otherwise software like evehq and EFT/pyfa could be seen as 'infringing on CCP's intellectual property' which most of us know is certainly not the case.

Morganta
The Greater Goon
#52 - 2011-12-05 22:57:36 UTC
if you create it its yours
if you use someone else's designs its not yours
if you mimic someone else's designs you are in for the possibility of claims of misleading consumers and damages resulting from any judgement

even if you make everything yourself and make it look like nothing ever seen you are still not out of the woods

then all the patent trolls start coming out of the woodwork demanding royalties for transactions, functions, procedures and core systems that they hold the patent on

case in point is the guy who tries to extract money out of everyone using e-commerce because he holds the patent to a theoretical system where a person can buy an item online and pay securely with a card (dead serious, the guy exists and many more leeches like him)

then there's the licensing
want your game to have audio? gonna make the source files mp3s? you'll likely have to pay royalties, to not musicians, but the creators of mp3 compression

and the list goes on and on

at worst read up on copyright law (there are some great DMCA sites that have lots of good info that will at least show you that you shouldn't be navigating this minefield alone) and simply forget that you ever heard the phrase "fair use" it does not exist for you, so save headaches and forget it exists

your best option is to consult a lawyer
Jack Cavanaugh
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-12-06 00:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Cavanaugh
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Besides the obvious things(ships, names, etc), what else is considered CCPs intellectual property?

ui?
overview?
etc?

thanks!

edit: For those of you wondering, I'm developing a game, an MMO, however playing eve for 6 years has greatly influenced my ideas on features and UI development.


There are a number of games that have "borrowed' bits and pieces from EVE's lore and gameplay, have very similar UIs, gameplay, etc.

If you're working on your own game in the 4X genre I suggest taking it back old school and doing some research on Elite, Star Control and Masters of Orion as well as looking at some other past and recent titles.

EVE itself has done some very obvious borrowing from Elite and games that were produced later and were modeled after Elite.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2011-12-06 00:07:14 UTC
Wait a minute.
You've gained inspiration from EVE's UI?
Uh oh.
Look somewhere else!
Julius Rigel
#55 - 2011-12-06 00:18:03 UTC
Brandon Tsero wrote:
I'm developing a game, an MMO


Picturess Playable tech demo or it didn't happen.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#56 - 2011-12-06 04:29:31 UTC
Julius Rigel wrote:
Brandon Tsero wrote:
I'm developing a game, an MMO


Picturess Playable tech demo or it didn't happen.


^^^ This

ofc, OP doesn't have the VC to hire a lawyer, so I'd say a tech demo may be a few (hundred) steps too far.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Belidos Goveko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2011-12-06 08:26:01 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Mara Villoso wrote:

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. The copyright wouldn't extend to you because, by definition, Megaman is not your original work. If you or anyone else took the picture you drew and tried to sell it or license it, that person could be sued by Megaman's owners. The only person you could sue would be Megaman's owners if they took your work and tried to make money off it. I don't think you'd be able to make the argument "hey that guy stole the stuff I stole" and get away with it, not least because you'd have to show damages and all you would be able to demonstrate is your liability to Megaman's creators.


Megaman is not my original work, but the drawing is considered an 'original work'; Capcom can sue me to stop my use of their trademarked image (assuming that I'm using it commercially), but they can't file suit over my being able to draw Megaman.



Correct.

Capcom could not sue you for drawing Megaman, they cannot even sue you for publishing the drawing as long as you are not doing so for financial gain. The drawing is your work and thus your porperty, but the premise and idea behind it are Capcoms and the moment you financialy gain from that they can enforce their intelectual property rights.

The only time your drawing would not be deemed as your work is if it was an exact copy in detail of an existing image, but we're looking into the realms of forgery here.
Valei Khurelem
#58 - 2011-12-06 08:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
The way creative license works is that anything that is made by hand by CCP employees is theirs, that means, backgrounds, forums, website anything in the game their client and any tiny piece of coding you get from them even if it's just a button.

The only exception to this rule is when they contract from a third party, in that case it's up to the third party to decide whether or not other people can use or distribute their material and yes Belidos is right in saying that you can't sue someone who isn't making financial gain, at least that's the general idea behind it, you only need to look at how companies are treating filesharing etc. to see that it doesn't necessarily work out that way. It all depends on how strictly your government follows the general principle and how corrupt they are frankly.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#59 - 2011-12-06 08:43:01 UTC
I'd say pretty much everything in eve is IP

However perpetuum online pretty much is eve without the space. So I really don't know what the red line that can't be crossed.

The stories, models, races etc are off course all off limits.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2011-12-07 16:08:17 UTC
Brandon Tsero wrote:
Besides the obvious things(ships, names, etc), what else is considered CCPs intellectual property?

ui?
overview?
etc?

thanks!

edit: For those of you wondering, I'm developing a game, an MMO, however playing eve for 6 years has greatly influenced my ideas on features and UI development.



Your MMO will fail. So just save yourself the headache. I could go into many reason why but lets start with this very post.