Skill Discussions

Part 2: REMAP to i27 p17 c17 w17 m21 -- train Intelligence/Memory stuff (~210 days)
(1 remaps left after use; next remap earned in about 132 days)

Electronics Upgrades III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Energy Grid Upgrades III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Electronic Warfare I (11 minutes, 54 seconds)
Electronic Warfare II (55 minutes, 27 seconds)
Neurotoxin Control II (55 minutes, 27 seconds)
High Speed Maneuvering II (2 hours, 25 minutes, 33 seconds)
Neurotoxin Recovery II (2 hours, 18 minutes, 37 seconds)
Shield Upgrades III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
EM Shield Compensation III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Explosive Shield Compensation III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Kinetic Shield Compensation III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Shield Compensation III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Thermic Shield Compensation III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Electronic Warfare III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Neurotoxin Control III (5 hours, 13 minutes, 35 seconds)
Shield Management III (7 hours, 50 minutes, 24 seconds)
Projectile Weapon Rigging III (7 hours, 50 minutes, 24 seconds)
Thermodynamics III (7 hours, 50 minutes, 24 seconds)
Shield Rigging III (7 hours, 50 minutes, 24 seconds)
Armor Rigging III (7 hours, 50 minutes, 24 seconds)
Tactical Shield Manipulation III (10 hours, 27 minutes, 12 seconds)
Afterburner IV (15 hours, 31 minutes, 22 seconds)
Warp Drive Operation IV (15 hours, 31 minutes, 22 seconds)
Capacitor Systems Operation IV (14 hours, 47 minutes, 1 second)
Target Management IV (14 hours, 47 minutes, 1 second)
High Speed Maneuvering III (13 hours, 43 minutes, 12 seconds)
Neurotoxin Recovery III (13 hours, 4 minutes)
EM Armor Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Explosive Armor Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Kinetic Armor Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Thermic Armor Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Ladar Sensor Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Evasive Maneuvering IV (1 day, 7 hours, 2 minutes, 45 seconds)
Long Range Targeting IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Energy Grid Upgrades IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Electronics Upgrades IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
EM Shield Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Explosive Shield Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Kinetic Shield Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Shield Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Thermic Shield Compensation IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Shield Upgrades IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Capacitor Management IV (1 day, 20 hours, 21 minutes, 4 seconds)
Propulsion Jamming IV (1 day, 20 hours, 21 minutes, 4 seconds)
Armor Layering IV (1 day, 20 hours, 21 minutes, 4 seconds)
Projectile Weapon Rigging IV (1 day, 20 hours, 21 minutes, 4 seconds)
Shield Management IV (1 day, 20 hours, 21 minutes, 4 seconds)
Thermodynamics IV (1 day, 20 hours, 21 minutes, 4 seconds)
Acceleration Control IV (2 days, 14 hours, 5 minutes, 30 seconds)
Tactical Shield Manipulation IV (2 days, 11 hours, 8 minutes, 5 seconds)
Fuel Conservation IV (1 day, 7 hours, 2 minutes, 45 seconds)
Navigation V (3 days, 15 hours, 48 minutes, 37 seconds)
Repair Systems V (3 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes, 44 seconds)
Signature Analysis V (3 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes, 44 seconds)
Mechanics V (3 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes, 44 seconds)
Acceleration Control V (14 days, 15 hours, 14 minutes, 30 seconds)
Shield Operation V (3 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes, 44 seconds)
High Speed Maneuvering IV (3 days, 5 hours, 36 minutes, 52 seconds)
Afterburner V (3 days, 15 hours, 48 minutes, 37 seconds)
Warp Drive Operation V (3 days, 15 hours, 48 minutes, 37 seconds)
Capacitor Systems Operation V (3 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes, 44 seconds)
Hull Upgrades V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
EM Armor Compensation V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
Explosive Armor Compensation V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
Kinetic Armor Compensation V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
Thermic Armor Compensation V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
Ladar Sensor Compensation V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
Armor Layering V (10 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes, 12 seconds)
Evasive Maneuvering V (7 days, 7 hours, 37 minutes, 15 seconds)
Long Range Targeting V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
Energy Grid Upgrades V (6 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes, 28 seconds)
Capacitor Management V (10 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes, 12 seconds)
Propulsion Jamming V (10 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes, 12 seconds)
Shield Management V (10 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes, 12 seconds)
Thermodynamics V (10 days, 10 hours, 53 minutes, 12 seconds)
Neurotoxin Control IV (1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, 2 seconds)
Neurotoxin Recovery IV (3 days, 1 hour, 55 minutes, 7 seconds)
[[27.3mil SP]]


Any other I/M stuff before another remap?
* Maybe Electronic Systems skills
* Cyno field theory?
* Cybernetics V for pirate implants?
* Tech III ship skills?


Next:
* Drones?

Battleships are basically for running missions. If you plan to make money from Level 4 missions, then go ahead and get battleships and large weapons. Otherwise you can leave them for later.

I agree with the above. T3 cruisers are too far away for you to consider at this point. Besides, the Strategic Cruiser skill does you no good without all the Minmatar Subsystem skills. So either add them all to the skill plan, or leave Strategic Cruiser for later.

Flying fast is the basis of all Minmatar Ships. You don't want to wait 8 months before getting Acceleration Control 4 and Evasive Maneuvering 4. I'd really recommend getting at least 4s in everything under the Navigation tab (minus jump drive skills of course) before remapping.

The Thrasher is a very nice little ship. I would recommend putting Minmatar Destroyer IV into your 1a section, right after Small Autocannon Spec--on second thought, maybe before Small Autocannon Spec.

Drones become more and more important as you go up in ship size. Luckily they train faster under a Perception/Willpower remap than under an Intelligence/Memory map. You should start training them shortly after training Cruisers. By the time you can fly a battlecruiser, you should be able to use Warrior IIs and EWar drones.

You don't have any T2 ships on the list, which is odd because you had Strategic Cruiser. Is there a reason for that? Interceptors are especially popular these days. Covert Ops frigates are very useful. I would get them around the 1c timeframe.

(continued)


Will do.



I saw that I could fly the Wolf and Jaguar once I got Frig V, but didn't look into the requirements for Interceptors or Covert Ops frigs.

Edit: I've looked into the requirements and it seems like cov ops requires Electronics Upgrades V (which doesn't seem like a super useful skill otherwise), and Interceptors require Evasive Maneuvering V. These are pretty expensive skills, so if I wanted to go this route it might make sense to remap and train these and some other Intelligence/Memory stuff (all the nav stuff) for a month or two before remapping to perception/willpower. Or perhaps better to just wait to train those until after I've remapped to I/M ... though then training up Inteceptor/CovOps will be expensive since they're P/W based and 4x skills. I'll have to think on that a little more; suggestions on when and how to work them in are welcome!

armor comps are not particularly important until you get hull upgrades 5 and start using t2 EANMs. If you find yourself using t2 adaptive nano plates (does not require HU 5), train them to about level 3.

"Shield compensation" is a capacitor-saving skill that is mostly important when shieldtanking in pve.

"shield compensation skills" refers to em shield compensation and others. These are only useful when fitting passive shield resistance amplifiers, and you will almost never do this. At most you might fit a single EM resistance amplifier for a few niche fits, so do not prioritize these skills, only train the EM one if you actually find yourself using a fit using that mod.

I would recommend remapping to balanced perception/intelligence for the first few months. Since you're actually going to be playing the game, it'll be more worthwhile to grab the low-hanging fruit in both areas as you play than try to min/max just to get slightly more total sp at a point 3 months down the road. There are a lot of skills you'll want to level 3-4 sooner rather than later. A skill plan should help you, its not set in stone, and it definitely shouldn't weigh you down.

I didn't read everything, so forgive me if this has been addressed.
2 things I would add or mention are:

You have drones listed last, as 'next'.
I would do them fairly early on. You want to field 5 drones and t2 light drones as soon as possible.
I think a pilot should do that in his first 3 months, max.

Remaps:
Don't throw away your remaps, just to save a few days on a bunch of skills to level III and IV.
Remaps are most effective when you train long skills, or long periods of time in the same area.
I'd rather add a week to my 3 month plan, than lose a remap for that 1 week of savings. And if you only did that once, you can make it through the year with 1 or 2 remaps left in reserve. ( I don't know how many you have used already)
Remaps are very valuable, and should be used with full consideration. When you burn them up, the only *guaranteed* remap is a year away.

What you will find, is that most plans...change.

5 drones, and t2 lights/meds are common once you hit cruiser hulls and above. Same for eanms too, as the CPU cost often makes them prohibitive on frigates, and not that valuable given the low base armor hp.

Even if you plan to stick to frigates for a while for PVP, its worth it to train cruisers and perhaps larger simply for isk-making. Drones are HUGE in doing this, especially in quickly clearing those level 1-3 missions you'll find yourself doing. EANMs are big for cruisers and above in pvp (hardeners are still generally better in pve).

Well, it has been a little over a month and I've made a lot of progress on Intelligence/Memory skills since I started this post. I've been working on these with the default attributes (no remap yet) and +4 implants.

Progress! http://eveboard.com/pilot/Paqii

• Navigation -- I think all the core stuff is at least IV, with Nav and AB to V.
• Shields -- I didn't have much in shields before, but a number of people strongly suggested investing in those skills. So I've raised everything that seems important to III (compensations, shield emission, upgrades, tactical manip) or IV (shield mgmt and operation).
• Drones -- I'm going to get Electronic Warfare now, and then save the rest of the I/P drone skills for after my P/W remap (they'll train slightly faster under P/W than base skills with +4's). Drones V, Scout Drones V, Durability IV, Interfacing IV, Nav IV, Sharpshooting IV, Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing IV. Also Minnie Drone Spec III, and maybe Gallente Drone Spec III too (can probably put that decision off until I know which I'd prefer to use ... anyway less than a day to get each to III).
• Rigging -- Relevant ones are all to III (except astronautics, in progress).

I still have about a week left to finish off the last of the planned shield work, electronic warfare, and astronautics rigging. After that, are there any other holes I should plug in I/M skills before I use my first-ever remap (will be remapping to P/W and focus on gunnery, ships, and the like for the next 6 months or so before I switch back to I/M).

I'm especially interested in whether my engineering, shields and targeting are in a good place for now or if I should do more of them before I use my first remap.

Thanks for all the help so far!

Thanks Raven, looking at the x1 skills is really helpful advice. With EveMon, I looked over all the rank 1 skills that would be better to train now than after my P/W remap (so Gunnery should wait, but not Mechanics V). Given that review, I'll hold off on my first remap for another 36 days or so in order to finish off the x1 skills that seem relevant.

You're right the tactical shield manip IV enables some T2 items, so I'll train that to IV too (cost of ~2.8 days).

So the new short-term plan (next ~36 days or so) is to train the following:

• Biology III - I have it to II, and III is cheap so I'll add that. Should I push it to IV or even V now?
• Infomorph Psych III - I hadn't trained this at all, but it's dirt cheap so I'll train it to III for sure. Should I go even higher is that plenty of jump clones for now?
• Infomorph Synch II - I guess jumping a little faster can't hurt for an hour's skill training.
• Tactical Shield Manip IV - to enable the related T2 items that IV unlocks
• Repair Systems V
• Shield Op V
• Mechanics V
• Sig Analysis V
• Capacitor Systems Op V
• Target Mgmt V
• Leadership V - it's x1 and probably not critical, but maybe fun?
• Wing Command III - x8 but not too bad to get to III (~1.5 days); maybe worth the flexibility?
• Minnie T3 non P/W skills to III - total of less than a day to train all these, so might as well.

You should always go for Intelligence/perception remap in your first year regardless of skill plan. All the skills you will need and will want to use can be trained with these. It gives you freedom to play and go where ever you want while training at close to max efficiency. It will allow you to throw around your whole plan and train something else without a remap or losing time. Save your remaps for when they really matter.

Since you haven't joined corp by now it seems that you fell for the old trap and are in fact playing "skill points online"... In that case you could be doing a lot better efficiency wise.. If you are training to be ready for PVP, you will never be ready. There are 290+ million SP to train in combat/PVP related skills alone. This will take you 12.5 years at max SP/hour.

So again, if you truly aim to play and PVP, remap P/I.

That's a very interesting proposition which I hadn't considered. The flexibility this offers is attractive -- for my current plans (guns, ships and drones under P=27 W=21 + implants followed by a general I=27/M=21 train on shields, engineering, nav, targeting, rigging, etc.) this flexibility would come at a cost of 11.3% longer training time (~53 days, depending on what exactly I end up training).

It'd also slightly speed up the tiny bit of I/M training I have left before I was planning to remap to P/W (by 7%, haha. Guess I should've considered this option sooner).




Haha, that's what I called it too. No worries, I'm in no rush; Eve doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Didn't hurt that my first bids to join corps were rejected for "low SP" but I could've always joined RvB (and still might, who knows).



Learned a few things, and dropped out on training for a week or so when work got hectic (now I use the Dust app which makes remembering to skill up easier). No biggie; focused on the future now.



Yep, that's my plan. I'm tempted by Cronos' balanced P/I remap suggestion -- I don't anticipate really hurting for anything in I/M, but the flexibility is very tempting.