Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Before I show you an example of this idea, I will explain what intended role I have for it, and also, I'd like everyone's input on what role you think it will in the end fit in.

Role:
Anti-Capitol Battleship created for the sole purpose of shifting the balance in another direction than just N+1, and give viable counters to Cap and Super Cap fleets above Critical Mass. (Shifting the balance of the game from N+1 to also Sub-Capitol fleets, which will be needed to effectively deal with this vessel)
It's main focus will be Capitol Sniping, or with proper numbers, just straight up alpha, but will have problems tracking anything but capitols, and may be able to alpha some Battleship fleets though.

There is two possible ways to use this vessel:
1) Use it is as a mobile vessel and stay mobile at all times, and not become stationary to disallow enemy dreadnoughts and in general other guns to hit you easily, have pings on field and warp around to avoid getting caught.
It obviously needs a supporting fleet to deal with enemy subcaps but on the other hand caps will have a harder time dealing with this ship, because of its superior range.
2) Use the Bastion Module, which will make you very vulnerable, but allows some self-tanking abilities
It also gives 25% Optimal Range as well as 25% Falloff, increasing your sniping capabilities by quite a significant bit,
The biggest problem is obviously you are going to be stationary for 60s though, and should probably be used sparingly, or only if you REALLY need the extra range.


It will most likely never be a main doctrine ship because of its horrible tracking, on the other hand, it does have a great alpha.

Now here is the stats of Minmatar to give a feel of what this idea is about, the other race variants will basically follow the same structure.

Name: -Not Determined yet, come with suggestions-
Base Hull Maelstrom

Minmatarr Battleship Bonus
5% Capitol Projectile Turret Optimal Range
7.5% bonus to Targeting range

Marauder Bonus
7.5% Shield Booster Amount
5% Capitol Projectile Turret Rate of Fire

Role Bonus
100% Capitol Projectile Damage
70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay
97% reduction in Power Grid usage of Capitol Projectile Turrets
25% penalty to Capitol Tracking
* Can fit Bastion Module

5 High Slots (4 Turret Hardpoints)
6 Mid
5 Low

Explaining the different stats and why
Well it has the base Dreadnought b damage, but it also has two distinct differences.

Firstly, it has a range bonus that the Dreadnoughts do not have, and that range is quite significant. It is a 25% bonus and as it is capable of fitting the Bastion Module, sieged, it can dish out at a 50% increased range compared to a normal dreadnought.
REMEMBER THE SHIP DOES NOT REQUIRE THE BASTION MODULE :P

It's damage is a bit harder to calculate, but unsieged (At Dreads current iteration) they will out-dps a Dread, but on the other hand, a Sieged Dread will still be able to Out-DPS this class of Marauder any day.
It has a maximum of 125% bonus to damage (Compared to Dread's 825% sieged) but has a significant advantage on range, and also it has a significant mobility advantage.

The tracking penalty is there to further limit these vessels to a Capitol Sized hull or greater, although the penalty may be to small at the moment, or for that matter, to high... The exact math involved with guns is to extensive for me to attempt to cover.

So to recap:
This is a long-ranged smaller hull, dread equivalent, with worse tracking capabilities than a normal Dread, but significant better un-sieged damage, and less damage, and with a significant mobility advantage compared to a Dread.

I accept any criticism and welcome any ideas towards what type of problems this vessel may bring.
Any constructive comment is welcomed.

Either way, have a nice day.

Edits
1st of March - Changed Damage bonus to Rate of Fire bonus.
- Removed the 300% Duration to Bastion Module.
- Removed the note saying that it should have less tanky stats on its hull.
- Rewrote strategy related
- Removed some stuff in Recap.

If it is immobile, it needs tank. Low tank = needs mobility. Not just range.

Everyone should though remember, that this boat is supposed to outrange Dreads by quite a bit, and considering most dreads and the likes is rather immobile, and proper placed bubbles can counter Dread warps easily, I don't see an issue with it being low tank.

It is not supposed to be the first vessel on the field, it is supposed to be the last vessel to arrive, and require some protection to out weigh its disadvantages,

And everyone do remember, it still gets all the tank bonuses of the Bastion, although it cannot get as good a tank as the current Marauder can.

If you don't want to run it as a sniping vessel your tank will be increased by quite a bit, and it becomes a Mobile "mid range" dreadnought, as it (in its current iteration and for that matter, dreads current bonuses) out-dps an un-sieged dread.

Would anyone actually use this for anything other than structure bashing in highsec? I mean, you're immobile, fragile, and shooting at guys who put out loads more damage than you do. While you are wearing a flashing neon sign saying 'bomb me please'.

But it won't hurt much at range really. Dreads will be able to reach out and touch them in their naughty places just by changing ammo and scripts, bombers will do truly disgusting things to them, and subcaps will feast on their entrails.

Against unsupported caps, these things could work. Problem is, so could neuting tempests (or any standard fleet doctrine really), for a fraction of the cost.

As was said earlier, you're looking at 50% of the cost of a dread, with higher skill requirements than a dread, no tank, no mobility, absolutely no chance whatsoever of alphaing a super off the field and the exact same ability as a bog standard alphafleet or tornado fleet to take out regular capitals.

Also, they'd be laughably easy to catch. Sit still for 60 seconds on grid with hostile caps, and you'll have dictors and ceptors coming out of places you didn't know you had.

This idea needs a lot more iteration and simplification. However, it seems like an ok idea. Some things that may or may not supplement your idea:

+50% bonus to mjd range (you go 150km instead)

increase cycle time of cap guns instead of damage. This, along with limited cargo space, would limit the time this "cap sniper" could b on the field.

The bastion module is totally unneeded here. These things should be vulnerable to ewar and b able to b remote repped (protected by a subcap fleet). I think what you were looking for is a way to force them to stand still. You can just say "they need an anchoring module to halt their speed and allow them to use dread guns".

Look at the implications this ship would have elsewhere. I guarantee this will be used primarily to grind down POCOs. Whether or not this may be a good thing is a big issue, and is probably where the majority of your backlash will come from.

Hey everyone, thanks for your many replies.

One thing that is repeating throughout the topic is that the ship will be stationary.

But if all you do is look at the modules available to a ship, then carriers are 100% as well.

I do like the suggestion of increasing the range bonus to 50%, but personally I think it is better to keep it at 25% (At Marauder 5).
If it is a mobile boat that can outrange the dreads by a significant amount, they may be to hard to deal with.

Although, if there is a larger consensus that it may be a good idea, I will definitely put it in my Original Post.

The Bastion Module will most likely be fitted, and will likely be used in situations where you need the range asap, and you are willing to take the risk of being stationary.

Right now with the current bonuses, it is a faster, more mobile, and deals higher damage than a normal dread, (EDIT: Unsieged) although with a tracking penalty to make up for the fact that it is supposed to be 100% anti-capitol (although there will most assuredly be someone who will find a way to use it differently)



Isn't that basically what happens to Talos, 'Nado's and so on already?

Flimsy yet high damage dealing monsters, even outranging and out-dps'ing battleships, but at a lower price.



What would it help to increase the cycle time? Do you mean reduce the cycle time, and thereby increase the ROF?
That is honestly not a bad idea, as you write, it would limit the time it can stay on field without any logistical capabilities of the fleet (Carriers, haulers and the likes bringing ammo)

In terms of the Bastion Module, as I see it, there is no need to remove it from the vessel, it will most likely be underused, but does that really matter? It is there as an option if it is needed, to temporarily extend the range further.

As I wrote above.

Yes, it makes you vulnerable, but so does Siege on a Dread.
It is the bonus vs. risk. Do you dare to use it? Is it a good idea to use it now?



Well, one of the reasons I would personally prefer it, it has on-grid mobility, compared to a dread.

It has the options to go from system to system, and it would be easily able to outrange slow cat fleets, and other capitol fleets, maybe excluding some dread fits, but dreads will still have a tracking issue, allowing a subcap vessel to enter even critical mass super cap fleets.

It can also give chase, escape through gates and so on, yes they cannot jump by themselves, but neither can a subcap fleet you may field to deal with below critical mass cap fleets.

Titans will hardly have anything to do against them, beyond firing their guns, which Logi can most likely handle, and as the Titan suddenly has no Doomsday to counter these fella's with, the opposing side will be forced to drop subcaps at some point to deal with these guys, or hope they are lucky with their caps.



As mentioned above, you are not required to use the Bastion module, you can fire without it, staying mobile.

Although I do agree with several peoples argument here that it should have at least a standard battleship sized stats, and will modify my original post to reflect this.

Why do you want to destroy the capitol?


Anyway, stationary targets are toast no matter the "tricks" you want to use. They either get killed by Capitals or by their supportfleet jumping right on top of them.

But wherent ABC introduced to combat Capitals?

They have the firepower to kill them, the signature to avoid them, the speed to catch them and the maneuverability to circle them.

Yes but a Fleet out of stationary weapon platforms that work like and cost as much as dreads wont help either.

In this type of szenario nothing realy matters and you will not be able to kill any fleet with less than half of the fleet size as counterfleet.