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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Frigates

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Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#1001 - 2014-03-01 16:17:36 UTC
10% bonus to shield HP per level? ******* seriously? Strop trying to make overpowered incursion boats with your nightmares, guys. Ridiculous.

AB bonus is fine and dandy. All these shield bonus suggestions don't take into account the side-effect of affecting the Nightmare the most and the Succubus the least, the exact and total opposite of what Rise is trying to do. He wants the Succubus to be affected the most and the Nightmare the least with the same bonus. AB bonus does that. Shield HP bonus does not.

Not that saying any of this is going to change Mike Voidstar's mind. Thankfully he's not in charge of rebalancing.

Katrina Oniseki
Jaari Val'Dara
Grim Sleepers
#1002 - 2014-03-01 16:39:00 UTC
Just edited evehq succubus hull, and with double nanofibers and faction 10mn afterburners, it goes 6922m/s when overloaded. It has a bit slow allign speed, but dam is it fast.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#1003 - 2014-03-01 16:43:16 UTC
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
Just edited evehq succubus hull, and with double nanofibers and faction 10mn afterburners, it goes 6922m/s when overloaded. It has a bit slow allign speed, but dam is it fast.



Yeah, but it would have a turn radius of like 40km. Big smile
Jaari Val'Dara
Grim Sleepers
#1004 - 2014-03-01 16:45:06 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
Just edited evehq succubus hull, and with double nanofibers and faction 10mn afterburners, it goes 6922m/s when overloaded. It has a bit slow allign speed, but dam is it fast.



Yeah, but it would have a turn radius of like 40km. Big smile

With nomads its allign speed is about 9seconds. I wonder what that means.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#1005 - 2014-03-01 16:57:16 UTC
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
Just edited evehq succubus hull, and with double nanofibers and faction 10mn afterburners, it goes 6922m/s when overloaded. It has a bit slow allign speed, but dam is it fast.



Yeah, but it would have a turn radius of like 40km. Big smile

With nomads its allign speed is about 9seconds. I wonder what that means.


Geometry is not something I excel at, but I am pretty sure it means your ship is going to be orbiting a circumference of around 125k.

Someone better at this sort of thing than me can tell you what that works out to be as far as the minimum orbit at the maximum velocity would be.
Jaari Val'Dara
Grim Sleepers
#1006 - 2014-03-01 17:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaari Val'Dara
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
Just edited evehq succubus hull, and with double nanofibers and faction 10mn afterburners, it goes 6922m/s when overloaded. It has a bit slow allign speed, but dam is it fast.



Yeah, but it would have a turn radius of like 40km. Big smile

With nomads its allign speed is about 9seconds. I wonder what that means.


Geometry is not something I excel at, but I am pretty sure it means your ship is going to be orbiting a circumference of around 125k.

Someone better at this sort of thing than me can tell you what that works out to be as far as the minimum orbit at the maximum velocity would be.



I found this formula:

r = A * m * v^2 / (sqrt (Vmax^2 - v^2) * 10^6)
r = Orbital Radius
A = Agility
m = ship mass (in kg)
VMax = maximum velocity for the ship
v = orbit velocity for the ship



r = 1.170195 * 965000 * 6000^2 / sqrt (6922^2 - 6000^2)* 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / sqrt (47914084 - 36000000) * 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / sqrt (11914084) * 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / 3451,678432299278 * 10^6
r = 11777,625
So to go at 6km/s I would need to orbit at 11.77km


Without nomads:

r = 1.601501 * 965000 * 6000^2 / sqrt (6922^2 - 6000^2)* 10^6
r = 16118
Kaldfir Gongukaslan
V.E.N. Asset Management
#1007 - 2014-03-01 18:28:19 UTC
SUCCUBUS:
I feel like the AB bonus is cool, but Sansha seems like a really strange line of ships to put it on. They're meant to be hi-tech supervillains, so putting pretty much any other bonus would make more sense than this. You could do fun things with point range, bonuses that make smartbombs viable on small ships, allow fitting of MJD on smaller ships, bonuses to active shield tank mods, ewar bonuses - the list of fun hi-tech stuff you could do goes on and on.

Shelf the AB thing and use it on the next faction line that gets introduced (because it is a good bonus). Come up with something that fits the faction better.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#1008 - 2014-03-01 19:37:32 UTC
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
I found this formula:

r = A * m * v^2 / (sqrt (Vmax^2 - v^2) * 10^6)
r = Orbital Radius
A = Agility
m = ship mass (in kg)
VMax = maximum velocity for the ship
v = orbit velocity for the ship



r = 1.170195 * 965000 * 6000^2 / sqrt (6922^2 - 6000^2)* 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / sqrt (47914084 - 36000000) * 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / sqrt (11914084) * 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / 3451,678432299278 * 10^6
r = 11777,625
So to go at 6km/s I would need to orbit at 11.77km


Without nomads:

r = 1.601501 * 965000 * 6000^2 / sqrt (6922^2 - 6000^2)* 10^6
r = 16118

To be honest, it is going to be quite amusing if these changes go ahead and make Sansha ship's the best speed tanking ships in the universe. Who needs Minmatar.
Jaari Val'Dara
Grim Sleepers
#1009 - 2014-03-01 19:50:57 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Jaari Val'Dara wrote:
I found this formula:

r = A * m * v^2 / (sqrt (Vmax^2 - v^2) * 10^6)
r = Orbital Radius
A = Agility
m = ship mass (in kg)
VMax = maximum velocity for the ship
v = orbit velocity for the ship



r = 1.170195 * 965000 * 6000^2 / sqrt (6922^2 - 6000^2)* 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / sqrt (47914084 - 36000000) * 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / sqrt (11914084) * 10^6
r = 40652574300000 / 3451,678432299278 * 10^6
r = 11777,625
So to go at 6km/s I would need to orbit at 11.77km


Without nomads:

r = 1.601501 * 965000 * 6000^2 / sqrt (6922^2 - 6000^2)* 10^6
r = 16118

To be honest, it is going to be quite amusing if these changes go ahead and make Sansha ship's the best speed tanking ships in the universe. Who needs Minmatar.


Yea with lg snakes it goes 8032m/s. So it orbits at 7km/s at 19.2km orbit. I will need to fit beams, but it will be rather fun.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#1010 - 2014-03-01 20:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
i still can't quite see how the cruor is supposed to work.

If you see it as full brawler you could say the web range bonus has the lone purpose to catch kiters, and somehow bring them into scram range. Nos range is half scram range. Which means that you will have to be point black to the target. If you aren't dead yet or capped out before being in nos range you now have the problem of having to fight something this close in the second worst tracking weapon system available: lasers.

It could work however if you would give it a small nos/neut range bonus (e.g the one of the dragoon) to be able to kite stuff at max scram range. Or do something crazy and give it a laser tracking bonus.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#1011 - 2014-03-01 20:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Crazy KSK
Bienator II wrote:
i still can't quite see how the cruor is supposed to work.

If you see it as full brawler you could say the web range bonus has the lone purpose to catch kiters, and somehow bring them into scram range. Nos range is half scram range. Which means that you will have to be point black to the target. If you aren't dead yet or capped out before being in nos range you now have the problem of having to fight something this close in the second worst tracking weapon system available: lasers.

It could work however if you would give it a small nos/neut range bonus (e.g the one of the dragoon) to be able to kite stuff at max scram range. Or do something crazy and give it a laser tracking bonus.


yeah the AB bonus would fit so much better with short neuts since it allows you to stay fast orbiting in scram range and get to that range in the first place without taking too much damage and it would come from the minmatar skills not the caldari one >_<

and as I said earlier probably the only BS that would like to have that bonus is a Bhaal fit for fleet combat allowing it to avoid dreads more easily

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1012 - 2014-03-01 20:31:20 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Actually, Shield HP +% would be a good Sansha flavor bonus.

As far as I can remember, the only %HP hull bonus is the Damnation armor, so Sansha being a marriage of Caldari and Amarr might do the same thing to the shields.

Obviously, care would have to be taken here. Big shields can get quite the passive regen rate, and as the Damnation shows it does not take much with that kind of bonus to push your HP into the realms of silly.

I said from the beginning that the AB bonus should be the role bonus, and the Caldari bonus should be something thematic relating to that race.


It's for this reason I was very annoyed at the fact that CCP didn't give the Vulture a 10% shield HP bonus for a shield equivalent of the damnation. That being said, I still think they should just go with the 10% range buff per level; it would make them extremely good laser platforms that would balance well, as long as the dropped a high for a low on the phantasm as well. Or both utility highs. That would be kind of awesome if they made it a strict military laser platform.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1013 - 2014-03-01 20:33:12 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
10% bonus to shield HP per level? ******* seriously? Strop trying to make overpowered incursion boats with your nightmares, guys. Ridiculous.

AB bonus is fine and dandy. All these shield bonus suggestions don't take into account the side-effect of affecting the Nightmare the most and the Succubus the least, the exact and total opposite of what Rise is trying to do. He wants the Succubus to be affected the most and the Nightmare the least with the same bonus. AB bonus does that. Shield HP bonus does not.

Not that saying any of this is going to change Mike Voidstar's mind. Thankfully he's not in charge of rebalancing.



What about something unique like a reduction of the sig radius of its guns per level? Seeing that on the nightmare and a range bonus per level on the phantasm might be interesting to see.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1014 - 2014-03-01 20:34:41 UTC
Crazy KSK wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
i still can't quite see how the cruor is supposed to work.

If you see it as full brawler you could say the web range bonus has the lone purpose to catch kiters, and somehow bring them into scram range. Nos range is half scram range. Which means that you will have to be point black to the target. If you aren't dead yet or capped out before being in nos range you now have the problem of having to fight something this close in the second worst tracking weapon system available: lasers.

It could work however if you would give it a small nos/neut range bonus (e.g the one of the dragoon) to be able to kite stuff at max scram range. Or do something crazy and give it a laser tracking bonus.


yeah the AB bonus would fit so much better with short neuts since it allows you to stay fast orbiting in scram range and get to that range in the first place without taking too much damage and it would come from the minmatar skills not the caldari one >_<

and as I said earlier probably the only BS that would like to have that bonus is a Bhaal fit for fleet combat allowing it to avoid dreads more easily


Cruor would be much better served by dropping the web bonus for a neut range bonus. Or they could roll the two bonuses into one, and cheat a little bit...
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#1015 - 2014-03-01 21:13:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
Crazy KSK wrote:

yeah the AB bonus would fit so much better with short neuts since it allows you to stay fast orbiting in scram range


you can't really do this. With the speed you would get out of the AB you wouldn't be able to hit anything unless you put ACs on the cruor.

It doesn't have a tracking bonus and it uses lasers. You better stay >5km or you will have problems hitting anything if you orbit. And you don'T have the ability to kite within scram range since the nos range is too short.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Silivar Karkun
Doomheim
#1016 - 2014-03-01 22:51:08 UTC
then just change the AB bonus for an optimal range bonus, maybe increase its max velocity or something, but the AB bonus still sounds like out of place for a CALDARI bonus......
Jon Joringer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1017 - 2014-03-01 22:54:34 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
Nos range is half scram range. Which means that you will have to be point black to the target.


Not trying to say a ship should be designed with pimp mods in mind, but there are some fairly cheap, nice nos that reach to the edge of scram range. So it could work with some investment in the nos. Seems pretty similar to how I almost never see a DD fit without a faction web at least.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1018 - 2014-03-02 00:02:40 UTC
Jon Joringer wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
Nos range is half scram range. Which means that you will have to be point black to the target.


Not trying to say a ship should be designed with pimp mods in mind, but there are some fairly cheap, nice nos that reach to the edge of scram range. So it could work with some investment in the nos. Seems pretty similar to how I almost never see a DD fit without a faction web at least.


total waste on a proper DD. only matters on link-abuse scrub rail DDs.
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel
#1019 - 2014-03-02 02:21:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Crazy KSK
Catherine Laartii wrote:

Cruor would be much better served by dropping the web bonus for a neut range bonus. Or they could roll the two bonuses into one, and cheat a little bit...


dropping the web bonus would just make it a worse sentinel, giving it 75% to range and amount would give it 13,125km with neuts and 11,55 with nos, lessening the problem of being kited but that bonus could not be transfered to ashimmu or bhaal since 22,05km or 44,1km nos/neut would be very powerful especially on the bhaal

Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Lucine Delacourt
The Covenant of Blood
#1020 - 2014-03-02 03:45:54 UTC
Silivar Karkun wrote:
then just change the AB bonus for an optimal range bonus, maybe increase its max velocity or something, but the AB bonus still sounds like out of place for a CALDARI bonus......




I think you are getting a little too caught up in the bonus being attached to the Caldari Frigate skill. Being able to get twice as much speed out of an AB is the exact kind of advance in tech that fits well with the Sansha. The bonus is also awesome for playability. The proposed ship looks fun to fly, so stop trying to get it changed over something minor.