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My Sandbox is Becoming a Themepark

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#361 - 2014-03-01 02:52:55 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Autopilot's a big one.
Could you elaborate? Seems to me like it can and is used as a smart tool.


You don't realize that if you autopilot, you are giving anyone who cares to shoot you 15km worth of time to do it?

It's quite literally the dumbest thing you can do in the game.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#362 - 2014-03-01 02:54:23 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

That's kinda questionable. PvP fits vary. And what performs well against one target may not perform as well against another, or perhaps even more of the same. I can see how more PvP like PvE could result in better PvP capable fittings, but that doesn't change the fact that an intruding aggressor is now closer to a 2v1 PvP scenario when you were fitted for a 1v1.


i dnt get what u mean...

that mission runners are vulnerable when out numbered? if it is that, then: No ****.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2014-03-01 02:57:44 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

That's kinda questionable. PvP fits vary. And what performs well against one target may not perform as well against another, or perhaps even more of the same. I can see how more PvP like PvE could result in better PvP capable fittings, but that doesn't change the fact that an intruding aggressor is now closer to a 2v1 PvP scenario when you were fitted for a 1v1.


i dnt get what u mean...

that mission runners are vulnerable when out numbered? if it is that, then: No ****.

No, more that PvP fits are typically purpose tailored and as such aren't any more likely to withstand unexpected PvP intrusions than PvE tailored fits, especially in the middle of a fight.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#364 - 2014-03-01 02:59:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:


The issue is if you're going to blow up 10 hours of my life i spent farming missions for isk, i want it to be more fun then scram, web, and wait to die because i touched a yellow box i shouldn't have. There is also the classic get 1 shotted by a couple nados, that's always a fun way to lose 10 hours of my life.

I want a fighting chance, i want the high sec gankers to put as much at risk as i am. I want a chance to learn something in pvp that isn't well i shouldn't have done that and now i'm boned by someone who does this for a living.


if no'1 in the OP becomes a reality, this will be half solved.

That's kinda questionable. PvP fits vary. And what performs well against one target may not perform as well against another, or perhaps even more of the same. I can see how more PvP like PvE could result in better PvP capable fittings, but that doesn't change the fact that an intruding aggressor is now closer to a 2v1 PvP scenario when you were fitted for a 1v1.


With the current agro rules, if done right, it's a 2 to 1 in favor of the missioner. Rats HATE any e-war, including warp scrambling.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#365 - 2014-03-01 03:01:02 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And you need to think about something else:

Because of CONCORD, suicide ganking is a very binary thing. Kill the guy and win, or fail to kill him and lose. Either way, the ganker's ship is gone. CONCORD is the very reason why they fight the way they do, with overwhelming force. That's why if you encounter one, they drop the hammer. They aren't incentivized to play any other way.


I had never considered this. I'm going to consider this point for a bit I think and try and respond later.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#366 - 2014-03-01 03:01:22 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

No, more that PvP fits are typically purpose tailored and as such aren't any more likely to withstand unexpected PvP intrusions than PvE tailored fits, especially in the middle of a fight.


id say sometimes ppl do change their fits, or take specific counters in PvP when they know what they are up against. but u dnt always know what ur fighting in PvP. there are plenty of cookie cutter fits and plenty of times players will have a 'go to' fit that they use as their standard.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#367 - 2014-03-01 03:04:38 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

It's not really that bad. You can get into a Raven and start blowing through missions with less than 250 mil. Now if you're talking bling, then it's a different ballgame.


A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second

Quote:

Luckily for game balance as a whole, pricetag doesn't determine who wins fights. Nor should it. Because even a hint of something like that might as well be telling new players that they shouldn't bother, ever.


For sure this is needed for mutual pvp but it gives those ganking in high a huge edge over mission boats and you want to make it even easier for them?

Quote:

Depends on your fit, of course. If you're intending to attack anything, certainly.


I don't intend on attacking anything when running mission that's the whole point. If i want to attack something i go to low. There is no way i can kill someone in a mission boat without them warping off making the LE totally one sided.

Quote:

Likely already lost, btw. Nothing is guaranteed. And you need to think about something else:

Because of CONCORD, suicide ganking is a very binary thing. Kill the guy and win, or fail to kill him and lose. Either way, the ganker's ship is gone. CONCORD is the very reason why they fight the way they do, with overwhelming force. That's why if you encounter one, they drop the hammer. They aren't incentivized to play any other way.

CONCORD is the problem with what you're talking about.



Remove concord and every gate turns into a camp fest, markets collapse because no one can get to jita to trade. No i don't think anyone likes that idea.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#368 - 2014-03-01 03:05:06 UTC
hellokittyonline wrote:
Hey CCP- you should shoot yourself in the foot by pissing off your single largest subscriber segment.


FIFY

Overhaul Dscan!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#369 - 2014-03-01 03:22:38 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
hellokittyonline wrote:
Hey CCP- you should shoot yourself in the foot by pissing off your single largest subscriber segment.


FIFY


I find your post ironic considering that the OP is to some extent suggesting the same kind of changes you are suggesting in the thread linked in your signature. In fact, I suspect that if the two of you worked together you could come up with some pretty good ideas.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#370 - 2014-03-01 03:23:15 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:


A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second



u'd have to be quite reckless to lose a raven every 8 hours of playtime.

or dnt use a raven? u and ur friends could get together in drakes and be quite formidable.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Organic Lager
Drinking Buddies
#371 - 2014-03-01 03:29:41 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Organic Lager wrote:


A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second



u'd have to be quite reckless to lose a raven every 8 hours of playtime.

or dnt use a raven? u and ur friends could get together in drakes and be quite formidable.


Damn near impossible under the current system which is why I'm saying don't change it, don't encourage more high sec pvp.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#372 - 2014-03-01 03:39:37 UTC
if u dnt like PvP, one has got to ask: why are u playing eve?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2014-03-01 03:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Daichi Yamato wrote:
if u dnt like PvP, one has got to ask: why are u playing eve?

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Personally, because so much else appeals to me:

Spaceships
Fitting spaceships
Flying spaceships
Buying new spaceships
Flying those new spaceships
Changing fittings on those spaceships as changes are made
Flying those spaceships again
Visual appeal of certain spaceships
Visual appeal of the game in general
Passive skill training
Skill system appeals to me more than the character level system
Not restricted to any sort of "class" with a particular character
Never not able to trade/sell something because "soulbound"
Never not able to play with others I know who play the game because of different servers

Yay post history saving me from retyping!
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#374 - 2014-03-01 04:05:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Autopilot's a big one.
Could you elaborate? Seems to me like it can and is used as a smart tool.


You don't realize that if you autopilot, you are giving anyone who cares to shoot you 15km worth of time to do it?

It's quite literally the dumbest thing you can do in the game.

The same could be said for undocking. Anyone who wants to shoot you has an oppurtunity. Doesn't mean everybody is going to pop my shuttle though. It's not as dumb as you think. There are worse things you could do. and in my personal experience, no one has ever shot at me when i autopiloted. So while somebody could shoot me, theres also a strong possibility they won't. If done improperly almost anything done in Eve can be stupid. Do it right and you're smart. Same basic action. Different results.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#375 - 2014-03-01 04:06:30 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:

For sure this is needed for mutual pvp but it gives those ganking in high a huge edge over mission boats and you want to make it even easier for them?



Cheap ships being remotely effective compared to expensive ones is good for everyone. Gank ships don't have a "huge advantage" over anyone who is awake. If it were as prevalent as you seem to think it is...

no one could mission. And yet people do. The market is flooded with faction ammo, mods, and implants. Clearly, despite the supposed huge advantage gank ships have, it's getting done.



Quote:
Remove concord and every gate turns into a camp fest, markets collapse because no one can get to jita to trade. No i don't think anyone likes that idea.


And yet, I didn't say that.

What I said was, you need to consider that the very thing that makes highsec safer is the reason why you are complaining that you can't get fair fights, or fight anyone worthwhile.

Because CONCORD makes it into a binary equation for pretty much the only real way to kill someone. They can dodge a wardec, they can refuse a duel, so ganking is the only avenue left.

They fly and fight the way they do because that's the best option left.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#376 - 2014-03-01 04:13:04 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Autopilot's a big one.
Could you elaborate? Seems to me like it can and is used as a smart tool.


You don't realize that if you autopilot, you are giving anyone who cares to shoot you 15km worth of time to do it?

It's quite literally the dumbest thing you can do in the game.

The same could be said for undocking.


No, not really. There isn't a better alternative to undocking that makes you much safer.

There is for autopilot.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Abyss Azizora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#377 - 2014-03-01 04:20:02 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
mooom, they don't play with me!
MAKE THEN PLAY WITH MEEEEE


/thread
Markku Laaksonen
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#378 - 2014-03-01 04:21:32 UTC
OP is a sucker for marketing buzzwords. Also an Erotica 1 alt. Just look at the eyes.

DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/

EVE Buddy Invite - https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=047203f1-4124-42a1-b36f-39ca8ae5d6e2&action=buddy
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#379 - 2014-03-01 04:27:10 UTC
Abyss Azizora wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
mooom, they don't play with me!
MAKE THEN PLAY WITH MEEEEE


/thread


Remember when I said that carebears want to pretend it's a single player game?

Prime example right here.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#380 - 2014-03-01 04:42:59 UTC
Organic Lager wrote:


A basic raven worth 250m could make what 30m/hour tops? That's still 8 hours which is quite a lot to just lose in a second



60 mil basic, they can net you at least 90 mil when done right in level 4s.