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Separate the four empires with low security space.

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1241 - 2014-02-27 14:47:36 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
If I'm not mistaken there are already shorter routes between empires that go through losec yet people avoid them in favour of the longer hisec routes.


You are indeed mistaken. Some of the low sec routes between trade hubs are actually longer.


That surprises me, although when I set shortest route in the navcom thingy it usually goes through losec for better routes hence my mistaken belief. I still disagree with forcibly cutting of the empires with losec though :D
Decoe DeTouront
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1242 - 2014-02-28 11:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Decoe DeTouront
i like the idea. perhaps one cut between two factions each would be enough. so these are my thoughts (sorry for my bad english)

because the space is divided it would be easiest to split territories and reinsert new pace into the galaxy along the border tear .
possible causes :

a fatal accident in experiments at XYZ weapons leads to a spatially transverse fracture through the galaxy. coincidentally (or just inaccurate) between the warring factions. the area is unstable and dangerous. the old jump-gates (because of the instability in space-and energy flow) now lead to unknown locations in the fluid-space. by scan-able anomalies and mini - worm holes you can move around there, but you'll never know where you land until you have tried it yourself.

to keep the trade between the two sides of the galaxy up, all fractions work on a new transportation technology, and establish trans-warp gates. unfortunately these are still in the test phase and there is a chance that the connection becomes unstable and breaks off. if this happens, you'll land in the fluid-space. trans-warp generators / computer / module can counterbalance this effect under some circumstances and stabilize the channel. but a risk remains.

but the disaster also has something good. adventurer and explorer see new chances to explore unknown regions. they are unstable, dangerous for shields, weapons and drive but they also offer countless riches for the one who is brave enough. the cartography offers the explorer the possibility, to remember explored areas and positions of rich resource points in this space, special places, anomalies to other places etc. to find them again later on, or to sell these information to other pilots for quite some isk. but be aware: the space is fluid. No one knows how long the space is stable, or when it refolds again. your cards and plans may be out of date.

one can discuss whether you can build in these areas stations, if there are planets (newly created/destroyed/... ), gigantic asteroid - belt with stuff you can loot, salvage or miner, or if there should be entirely new possibilities introduced.

and who knows - maybe the crack in the room also has also opened a split. hole in space to a totally different corner of the universe, older than anything previously known and darker. a connection to the builders was created. and they are anything but nice ...

a chance for a big story, driven by the ccp story tellers of a new danger, which may unite or start the biggest war we've seen since ever.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1243 - 2014-02-28 11:36:46 UTC
I still don't see what this will bring other than more pain for hisec? If losec people want more targets why not fly into null and go harass people living there who clearly don't mind being in combat?

I can't read back through the 60-odd pages whilst in work so please summarize the key points for me to understand the reasoning behind this change.
Bl00dyAngel
Independent Unique Snowflakes
#1244 - 2014-02-28 13:29:27 UTC
I love this idea!
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1245 - 2014-02-28 14:32:17 UTC
OK, I re-read the initial post. To me it is basically proposing messing with a currently relatively stable market to present more juicy unarmed freighter targets to losec folks. If you want more targets and to make money pirating you can already by ganking in hisec. This idea just means the targets come to you in losec where you won't be concorded afterwards.

If you want to pirate then why not hunt losec/null mission ratters? Surely they will bring more money?, you can even use your fleet to wipe out the rats afterwards and take the loot.

I still think this would mess with a currently balanced economy for no good reason (since I don't see providing easier targets for losec pirates as a good reason).
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#1246 - 2014-02-28 14:53:59 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
OK, I re-read the initial post. To me it is basically proposing messing with a currently relatively stable market to present more juicy unarmed freighter targets to losec folks. If you want more targets and to make money pirating you can already by ganking in hisec. This idea just means the targets come to you in losec where you won't be concorded afterwards.

If you want to pirate then why not hunt losec/null mission ratters? Surely they will bring more money?, you can even use your fleet to wipe out the rats afterwards and take the loot.

I still think this would mess with a currently balanced economy for no good reason (since I don't see providing easier targets for losec pirates as a good reason).

It is not really about pirating, smart haulers know how to work around blockades. It is about:
1 diversifying and strengthening regional market hubs
2 importing consequence to where you live in high sec. by making travel between empire more difficult
3 creating more low sec routes between empire space to avoid choke points
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1247 - 2014-02-28 15:10:21 UTC
1: I believe it would isolate and alienate, plus be harmful to the new players trying out trade and also hinder new players on the cosmic/epic arc missions.

2: There is already consequence, If I remember rightly a guy pointed out in another thread that most ships are destoyed in hisec space, how safe is it again?

3: This might help entice people into losec, but not at the expense of cutting off the empires from one another.

I think th erisk of messing up the market and messing up new players freedom of travel would be too high a price but would support more routes into losec.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1248 - 2014-02-28 16:42:51 UTC
1. New players need to be taught that low sec is not the gank paradise that they are told it is and shown to not be afraid of low sec. It would also help new players under stand something that every care-bear needs to learn, a ship is just a ship.

2. There is no more consequence for a player living in high sec in terms of ship loss than for any other area of space. But there is zero consequence for your racial decision and there should be, other wise there is no need for different races.

3. There is no reason the empires should be sandwiched together most are at war after all (relative to there number of allies) and again players need to be taught generally how to handle low sec and not that it is a bad area that needs to be avoided all the time at all costs.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1249 - 2014-02-28 16:59:37 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
1. New players need to be taught that low sec is not the gank paradise that they are told it is and shown to not be afraid of low sec. It would also help new players under stand something that every care-bear needs to learn, a ship is just a ship.

2. There is no more consequence for a player living in high sec in terms of ship loss than for any other area of space. But there is zero consequence for your racial decision and there should be, other wise there is no need for different races.

3. There is no reason the empires should be sandwiched together most are at war after all (relative to there number of allies) and again players need to be taught generally how to handle low sec and not that it is a bad area that needs to be avoided all the time at all costs.


That is not true at all. All low sec choke points are camped, all entries to busy low secs are camped. Low secs that separate the empires are the very definition of a choke point and would be camped 24/7, because people need to travel. Imagine Ammake, Rancer and Old Man Star all together in 1 system. These low secs would be the very places that people should avoid at all cost if they want to survive.

For older players almost nothing is going to change, because they will have the luxury of JF, younger players are a lot more limited (remains to be seen if that's bad or good and if newer players like more hardship in tee age of free to play and COD.).

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
MoonglumX
Viaticus Consortium
#1250 - 2014-02-28 18:22:48 UTC
There are JF corps that could hop your trade goods over those lowsec jumps. That's what I usually do when I need something moved through lowsec.
Your Dad Naked
Doomheim
#1251 - 2014-02-28 18:35:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Your Dad Naked
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
1: I believe it would isolate and alienate, plus be harmful to the new players trying out trade and also hinder new players on the cosmic/epic arc missions.

2: There is already consequence, If I remember rightly a guy pointed out in another thread that most ships are destoyed in hisec space, how safe is it again?

3: This might help entice people into losec, but not at the expense of cutting off the empires from one another.

I think th erisk of messing up the market and messing up new players freedom of travel would be too high a price but would support more routes into losec.

1) Major game design decisions should never be dumbed down for the sake of easing brand new players into the game. This isn't WoW in space, as we know.

2) I've never lost a hauling ship in high-sec and probably never will, because I know how to play EVE.

3) Perhaps, but I don't believe that point has been defend well up to now. I'm open to the idea that certain problems could arise that make it game-breaking, but I am yet to hear of it.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1252 - 2014-02-28 18:42:15 UTC
There are two kinds of people in this thread.

People who see opportunities, and people who see problems.

Who do you want to be?

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1253 - 2014-02-28 20:13:50 UTC
Will these lowsec buffer zones be accessable by all areas of lowsec in empire space? It would be very nice and interesting if they were 'corridors' that could be navigated for one to circumvent having to go through the highsec space of an empire that's not friendly with them, or they just have a bad sec status.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#1254 - 2014-02-28 20:15:48 UTC
Your Dad Naked wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
1: I believe it would isolate and alienate, plus be harmful to the new players trying out trade and also hinder new players on the cosmic/epic arc missions.

2: There is already consequence, If I remember rightly a guy pointed out in another thread that most ships are destoyed in hisec space, how safe is it again?

3: This might help entice people into losec, but not at the expense of cutting off the empires from one another.

I think th erisk of messing up the market and messing up new players freedom of travel would be too high a price but would support more routes into losec.

1) Major game design decisions should never be dumbed down for the sake of easing brand new players into the game. This isn't WoW in space, as we know.

2) I've never lost a hauling ship in high-sec and probably never will, because I know how to play EVE.

3) Perhaps, but I don't believe that point has been defend well up to now. I'm open to the idea that certain problems could arise that make it game-breaking, but I am yet to hear of it.


Excepting OP's map, I could see the Khanid Kingdom having lowsec buffers between it and amarr space, but not between it and caldari space.
Dolorous Tremmens
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1255 - 2014-02-28 20:23:31 UTC
I like this idea

Get some Eve. Make it yours.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1256 - 2014-02-28 20:40:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
There are two kinds of people in this thread.

People who see opportunities, and people who see problems.

Who do you want to be?


Opportunities? Exploiting players need to transport things and profiting from it by demanding sweet fares. Experiencing and watchingfirst hand how predictable players are, both on the dealing as well as receiving side. On a slightly more positive note: more sales in Amarr. Lol

Problems? JF ganks in low sec level high secs near the low sec choke points. Exploding JF/jump fuel cost and exploitations of the sudden higher need (Hulkageddon, Ice Interdiction, anyone?)(such a change would give a sizable number of 00 dwellers even more incentive _NOT_ to stay in 00 and live in high sec instead to interrupt things there instead of their home in 00. And even more high sec people is surely what all of EVE wants and very vocally demands for all the time. Roll). Drone/can ball camped low sec corridors to prevent cloaking. Higher effort to get certain limited commodities to your non-Jita/non-Caldari production sites.

--

Nothing is dumbed down if we leave the game as is, because nothing unreasonable changes. Roll

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#1257 - 2014-02-28 21:04:50 UTC
current system: Jita is the gold standard for trade value. People will travel an hour round trip to save a few percent on their purchase. People neglect local markets because of this. Manufactured goods get shipped to jita because of this. Jita sucks.
proposed system: local trade markets flourish, prices balance out on certain things but spread on others. loyalty and consequence. Solitude is perfect example. new bros learn how to negotiate low sec
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1258 - 2014-02-28 23:36:11 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That is not true at all. All low sec choke points are camped, all entries to busy low secs are camped. Low secs that separate the empires are the very definition of a choke point and would be camped 24/7, because people need to travel. Imagine Ammake, Rancer and Old Man Star all together in 1 system. These low secs would be the very places that people should avoid at all cost if they want to survive.


Last few times I was in Amamake there wasn't even anyone on the gates, much less an actual camp.
JetStream Drenard
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#1259 - 2014-03-01 00:08:35 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:


That is not true at all. All low sec choke points are camped, all entries to busy low secs are camped. Low secs that separate the empires are the very definition of a choke point and would be camped 24/7, because people need to travel. Imagine Ammake, Rancer and Old Man Star all together in 1 system. These low secs would be the very places that people should avoid at all cost if they want to survive.


Last few times I was in Amamake there wasn't even anyone on the gates, much less an actual camp.

rancer is dead too. Old man star is very active, but it is not chokepoint for anywhere except other low sec, just lot of people calling it home.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1260 - 2014-03-01 02:19:51 UTC
JetStream Drenard wrote:
. Old man star is very active, but it is not chokepoint for anywhere except other low sec, just lot of people calling it home.



It is actually, if you have ever tried to get into Dodixe from further out OMS pretty much sits on every path into Sinq that doesnt require a ton of jumps.