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Does Eve need new players?

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Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#541 - 2014-02-28 13:31:37 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:

Rather than this endless debate with the Scott Farkus'es of Eve, perhaps focusing on potential options to improve the system (from the standpoint that changes should be made, for the sake of moving the conversation forward) would be more interesting?




The problem that you'll run into here, is that the opposing side believes changes should be made, but changes in the opposite direction.

I have a high-sec corp on one of my characters. If someone declared war on me, and I actually wanted to, I could dodge the war-dec, leave whoever declared war on me short their war-dec fee, and restart my corp shortly afterward. That is so broken.

Personally, if CCP changed war-decs, I'd like to see them fix things like that, before changing the mechanics of who can declare war on who.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#542 - 2014-02-28 13:42:47 UTC
TIL - Eve is the escapist fantasy of the Randian ubermensch.
Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#543 - 2014-02-28 14:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Oliver Wendel Jones
Victoria Thorne wrote:

The problem that you'll run into here, is that the opposing side believes changes should be made, but changes in the opposite direction.

I have a high-sec corp on one of my characters. If someone declared war on me, and I actually wanted to, I could dodge the war-dec, leave whoever declared war on me short their war-dec fee, and restart my corp shortly afterward. That is so broken.

Personally, if CCP changed war-decs, I'd like to see them fix things like that, before changing the mechanics of who can declare war on who.


That is really not a good tactic. Considering the disruption to the playing and organization and many other corp work that is done. Anyone that uses that as a tactic has more time and money (probably out of game) than people who want to play casually with like minded players who would rather focus on running a couple missions per week or doing industry.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#544 - 2014-02-28 14:30:27 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
That is really not a good tactic. Considering the disruption to the playing and organization and many other corp work that is done. Anyone that uses that as a tactic has more time and money (probably out of game) than people who want to play casually with like minded players who would rather focus on running a couple missions per week or doing industry.

People who want that also don't particularly need to expose themselves to wardecs to begin with.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#545 - 2014-02-28 14:38:39 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Chimay wrote:
NFain wrote:
A valid point arises, what is simply missing is rewards for being the good guy. EVE works as risk vs reward, and what we're failing to attract is the good guy player persona. The bad guy is always glorified, through the news and etc, whats the next big heist? But nobody ever sees the good deeds, most players DO NOT like to play in that kind of environment, they want to know that what they're doing is going to be rewarded as significantly as the other.

Also to add, war dec shields coming winter 2014 :D, im calling it.


Nfain,

I never looked at it that way. Now that you mention it, I think something like that would be awesome. If there were rewards and such for being good I could see myself making changes in my game play rapidity. IRL i'm helpful, nice, being respectful and polite is who I am. In EVE, I'm a complete ass hole, the rewards for such actions are far to great for me to consider being anything else but.

I often see new players in lowsec. I mow them down and any other target I have the opportunity too. Ransom, blow up offlline Pos and other "mean" things. To me it's just the way of EVE and the natural flow of how things are. The though never occurred to me to add some form of reward or perks for being nice. Outside of the box thinking, I really like it.






The reward for doing good and helping people is making friends, connections and allies.

How is this any reward at all when a good portion of those "friends, connections and allies" will only be looking to screw you for your weakness kindness?
Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#546 - 2014-02-28 14:46:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Oliver Wendel Jones
Alaekessa wrote:

The reward for doing good and helping people is making friends, connections and allies.

How is this any reward at all when a good portion of those "friends, connections and allies" will only be looking to screw you for your weakness kindness?[/quote]

I know the game seems like that a lot, especially here on the forums, but I tend to be the altruistic type and I've run across many others of the same mind, who you could trust to move a billion isk worth of plex for you without needing collateral (because like in RL, I don't find being an ahole rewarding). I think those are a lot of people who play quietly, help newbies on missions, etc. But the game really is heavily weighted towards being a jackhole. And defending it.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#547 - 2014-02-28 14:48:54 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
Victoria Thorne wrote:

The problem that you'll run into here, is that the opposing side believes changes should be made, but changes in the opposite direction.

I have a high-sec corp on one of my characters. If someone declared war on me, and I actually wanted to, I could dodge the war-dec, leave whoever declared war on me short their war-dec fee, and restart my corp shortly afterward. That is so broken.

Personally, if CCP changed war-decs, I'd like to see them fix things like that, before changing the mechanics of who can declare war on who.


That is really not a good tactic. Considering the disruption to the playing and organization and many other corp work that is done. Anyone that uses that as a tactic has more time and money (probably out of game) than people who want to play casually with like minded players who would rather focus on running a couple missions per week or doing industry.


I'm not really sure how that even counts as a disruption, unless your corp has a POS. Minor inconvenience, perhaps.

So... I would lose my corp hangers... Not exactly game-breaking. If I left an alt, I don't even need to give up my old corp. If you have the level of organization that would make switching a corp a hassle, you would think that you would have the resources to defend yourself.

It's certainly a lot less work than a war-dec, hence why you'll see complaints from war-dec'ing corps about corps doing just that.
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#548 - 2014-02-28 14:52:54 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:


I know the game seems like that a lot, especially here on the forums, but I tend to be the altruistic type and I've run across many others of the same mind, who you could trust to move a billion isk worth of plex for you without needing collateral. I think those are a lot of people who play quietly, help newbies on missions, etc. But the game really is heavily weighted towards being a jackhole. And defending it.

Oh, I've met them too and I agree that it can happen (I have many contacts that I've made this way), though I've also had it happen the other way around.

I'm just glad the dumbass got drunk and spilled the beans to one of my corpies, only con I've ever pulled in game and the best Isk I've ever made (not the greatest amount, but definitely the most pleasing to make).
VicturusTeSaluto
Ronin ONE
#549 - 2014-02-28 15:20:13 UTC  |  Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto
Are you kidding me OP? Complaining about a single person with a war dec against some noobs?

It used to be that privateers had a war dec against every corp in high sec(go look it up, OP). And suicide ganking used to be much easier.

I havent spent enough time in high sec for any of this to affect me, but it is a major problem of direction with the game always getting safer and safer.

As soon as I had the SP to fit a warp disruptor I was looking for any opportunity for combat, even if it would probably result in my destruction.
Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#550 - 2014-02-28 15:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Oliver Wendel Jones
VicturusTeSaluto wrote:
Are you kidding me OP? Complaining about a single person with a war dec against some noobs?

It used to be that privateers had a war dec against every corp in high sec(go look it up, OP). And suicide ganking used to be much easier.

I havent spent enough time in high sec for any of this to affect me, but it is a major problem of direction with the game always getting safer and safer.

As soon as I had the SP to fit a warp disruptor I was looking for any opportunity for combat, even if it would probably result in my destruction.


I'm not speaking about a single person with a single war dec, but rather speaking out for others that I know in several different and similar cases. So if it was changed, perhaps there was a good reason for it? Perhaps not every player wanted to play in that manner. And is it getting safer and safer in low sec or null sec? Or are you just not getting enough easy targets there?

But congratulations. I guess everyone should have to play like you want to play.
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#551 - 2014-02-28 16:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Leoric Firesword
as a relatively new player (less than 1 yr) I just have this to say.

The tears in this thread are awesome! also HTFU

oh, as an edit, I spend most of my time in highsec unless I'm roaming low looking for new ways to get blown up
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#552 - 2014-02-28 16:20:46 UTC
Leoric Firesword wrote:
as a relatively new player (less than 1 yr) I just have this to say.

The tears in this thread are awesome! also HTFU


This.

I keep hearing "you're scaring away the new players!!!"

But when I used to gate hug with global suspect in a Brutix to get fights, it wasn't the four-to-six-year old players passing me in T3s that fought me, and everything else that could have torn me to pieces with ease, it was the the new players that wanted to fight. One newbie attacked me in a Ferox with NOTHING BUT GUNS! No tank, no prop, nothing in mids and lows, just guns. Not that he knew any better, but the point is, he wanted to fight.

The new players WANT to play EVE the way carebears like OP and DE tell us not to.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#553 - 2014-02-28 16:26:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Oliver Wendel Jones
No, just saying there are places to go where newbies, vets, anyone can go to play your way. Not everyone should have to play your way. Choice is a good thing.

And as for anyone who thinks that a video game is where you need to "HTFU", I laugh, having walked in RL where you would never dare to tread. Your virtual world tough guy act makes me smile and shake my head. :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#554 - 2014-02-28 16:38:06 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
No, just saying there are places to go where newbies, vets, anyone can go to play your way. Not everyone should have to play your way. Choice is a good thing.
…and that choice already exists. No-one “has to” play any specific way.

Your problem is that you think this choice is made through some separation of space — that you have to go somewhere special. This is not how the game works. Everywhere is for everyone.
Oliver Wendel Jones
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#555 - 2014-02-28 16:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Oliver Wendel Jones
If that were true, there would be no High Sec/LowSec/Null Sec. It would all be Null Sec.
Obviously it's not the case, if these areas are in place. The choice to look for trouble is always there, but not the choice to avoid it, for a time or for ever. Why should you care if a percentage of players never want to PvP? What if you don't want to spend days researching a BPO? Should you be forced to because it is part of a game?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#556 - 2014-02-28 16:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
If that were true, there would be no High Sec/LowSec/Null Sec. It would all be Null Sec.
Obviously it's not the case, if these areas are in place.

Obviously, it is the case since the different sec levels are not there to (nor do they) separate playstyles. They're only there to alter how you gamble with the intentions of other players.

The notion that the sec levels are meant for specific play styles is just another one of those lies that griefers tell new players to make them suck at the game. Everywhere is still for everyone.
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#557 - 2014-02-28 16:47:40 UTC
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
No, just saying there are places to go where newbies, vets, anyone can go to play your way. Not everyone should have to play your way. Choice is a good thing.

And as for anyone who thinks that a video game is where you need to "HTFU", I laugh, having walked in RL where you would never dare to tread. Your virtual world tough guy act makes me smile and shake my head. :)


and your tears about an MMO not making a SUPER SPECIAL PLACE for you to go on your own to play your way amuses me.

Also, your "RL" crap is just as tough guy act as anything else here.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#558 - 2014-02-28 17:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Thorne
Oliver Wendel Jones wrote:
If that were true, there would be no High Sec/LowSec/Null Sec. It would all be Null Sec.
Obviously it's not the case, if these areas are in place. The choice to look for trouble is always there, but not the choice to avoid it, for a time or for ever. Why should you care if a percentage of players never want to PvP? What if you don't want to spend days researching a BPO? Should you be forced to because it is part of a game?


There are plenty of non-pvp players in low-sec (explorers, mostly) & wormhole space. They just aren't as afraid of risks. (Though a lot of wormhole corps will take down a POS, if the inhabitants refuse to fight, when they wouldn't otherwise.)

I can't speak for null, as I don't spend much time there.

As a sandbox, it's part of the game to have to be able to defend your castle, if someone else wants to kick it down. There are plenty of ways to avoid war decs, if that is your choice. But, like all choices, they have consequences.

Edit: And by non-pvp, I'm speaking about direct player to player combat. It's almost impossible to avoid market pvp & competition. That's life in a sandbox. Successfully avoiding conflict is itself a type of pvp.
CCP Manifest
CCP Retirement Home
#559 - 2014-02-28 18:31:16 UTC
Karon Grandolf wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:
We are getting lots of new players and lots of returning players (especially since B-R5RB) and continue our upward trend in subscribers we've had for 11 years.


Are you getting new players or new accounts?


Yes and yes, like I said in the quote above. For the rest of your questions they are clearly just preambles to your feedback, so I will leave them as such.

======== o7 _CCP Manifest | Public Relations and Social Media | @ccp_manifest_

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#560 - 2014-02-28 18:43:37 UTC
CCP Manifest wrote:
Karon Grandolf wrote:
CCP Manifest wrote:
We are getting lots of new players and lots of returning players (especially since B-R5RB) and continue our upward trend in subscribers we've had for 11 years.


Are you getting new players or new accounts?


Yes and yes, like I said in the quote above. For the rest of your questions they are clearly just preambles to your feedback, so I will leave them as such.


I'm sorry, but EVE is dying. Didn't y'all get the memo that this game wouldn't last past 2004-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14