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How to utterly demolish bot mining easily

Author
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#21 - 2014-02-28 04:31:53 UTC
This would solve nothing. I know WAAAAAY More botters in Nullsec then in Hi-sec. Especially with the recent Buffs to Null industry. Also reducing the cost of the economy scales ALL areas. Minerals are Eve's Lifes blood. If the Economy tanks.. PLEX prices will tank as well. All this will do is keep the botters, Doing what they do.. BOT. When I started EVE Plex was 275M each.. Now its 650. If the economy Tanks.. Players dont make as much ISK... ANYwhere.. Plex will drop, Botters will Bot. Nullsec Botters will still Bot, Hi-seccers will still Bot. Prices would scale down.. In the end.. your paying the same. All that changed was inflation.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-02-28 04:33:22 UTC
Dolorous Tremmens wrote:
If you really want to get rid of botting, have a captcha pop up for every strip mining cycle 15 seconds before its done.

oh **** no.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2014-02-28 04:34:59 UTC
ISK inflation is controlled by ISK income. PLEX went way up after the Incursion expansion gave everyone a way to make ridiculous amounts of ISK safely in highsec. There have been some other ISK faucets opened up since then as well, and very little increase in overal ISK sinks.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#24 - 2014-02-28 04:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:
This would solve nothing. I know WAAAAAY More botters in Nullsec then in Hi-sec. Especially with the recent Buffs to Null industry. Also reducing the cost of the economy scales ALL areas. Minerals are Eve's Lifes blood. If the Economy tanks.. PLEX prices will tank as well. All this will do is keep the botters, Doing what they do.. BOT. When I started EVE Plex was 275M each.. Now its 650. If the economy Tanks.. Players dont make as much ISK... ANYwhere.. Plex will drop, Botters will Bot. Nullsec Botters will still Bot, Hi-seccers will still Bot. Prices would scale down.. In the end.. your paying the same. All that changed was inflation.


A: Use some damn formatting.

B: With minerals and ships disappearing as a main financial outlay of players, the primary things to spend money are meta/faction modules and PLEX's. This would result in hyperinflation, where the only item perceived to be of real, stable "Value" will skyrocket in price with it being the main thing people now have remaining to spend money on. All non ship prices would spike in price and continue to rise over time (assuming the playerbase stayed the same, which it wouldn't. The collapsing playerbase would actually result in a decrease in the price of plex due to much lower demand.)

Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
ISK inflation is controlled by ISK income. PLEX went way up after the Incursion expansion gave everyone a way to make ridiculous amounts of ISK safely in highsec. There have been some other ISK faucets opened up since then as well, and very little increase in overal ISK sinks.



Skillbooks have been increased in price, Highsec POCO tax's have been introduced, and the new LP source in nullsec are all additional isk sinks. All forms of LP, including that from Incursion, are actually a form of sink, not faucet.

This is because the conversion of LP to items requires ISK to disappear into NPC hands. No isk is created during the exchange, only lost or transferred. The more LP converted to items, the more ISK gone from the system.

In fact, as of the last economic report, it was stated that EVE was sitting at a very healthy slow rate of inflation, and that Sinks/Faucets were well balanced.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-02-28 05:20:16 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
ISK inflation is controlled by ISK income. PLEX went way up after the Incursion expansion gave everyone a way to make ridiculous amounts of ISK safely in highsec. There have been some other ISK faucets opened up since then as well, and very little increase in overal ISK sinks.

If your goal is botting, do not touch the balance of supply and demand in materials or any other market good for that matter. That will not solve the problem.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-02-28 05:26:03 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
In fact, as of the last economic report, it was stated that EVE was sitting at a very healthy slow rate of inflation, and that Sinks/Faucets were well balanced.

Slow is not how I would describe it. It's slow in comparison to what it was doing after Incursion, but there's still so much ISK coming in that the economy is still inflating when it's already gone so far that if anything it should probably deflate a little.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#27 - 2014-02-28 05:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Anhenka wrote:
In fact, as of the last economic report, it was stated that EVE was sitting at a very healthy slow rate of inflation, and that Sinks/Faucets were well balanced.

Slow is not how I would describe it. It's slow in comparison to what it was doing after Incursion, but there's still so much ISK coming in that the economy is still inflating when it's already gone so far that if anything it should probably deflate a little.


I'm just paraphrasing the last report of the Econ guy that CCP keeps. He was the one that stated that it was a good point and that he did not feel that any significant increase of sinks was needed.

P.S: Incursion is a sink, not a faucet. Unless I'm mistaken (I could be, Incursions are the one thing in eve I don't know **** about), then the primary payout for Incursions is in the form of Concord LP, not bounties. And like any LP transaction, isk disappears, not appears. It does not matter how much an incursion runner makes in ISK from selling items to other players, as long as LP stores are being used as the means of cashing it out, isk is being destroyed and it is thus a sink.

Also, a slow degree of inflation is considered healthy in a relatively free market environment, both in game and in RL.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-02-28 06:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Anhenka wrote:
the primary payout for Incursions is in the form of Concord LP, not bounties.

Couldn't be further from the truth. The meager amounts of CONCORD LP you get from running incursions is watered down by the insane LP costs of items in CONCORD's LP store. People run incursions for the ISK, and there's a lot of it. You get about 10 mil per Vanguard site and those can be run in under 5 minutes by an experienced group with blingy ships. My first incursion run, I brought a Navy Megathron and ran with a mediocre group that was far from the best. In a little over 3 hours we made 300 mil each. Incursion Assaults pay significantly more and can also be run in highsec. I don't know the actual amounts but from what I hear, the people who can run assaults will never bother with vanguards if they don't have to. Apparently the difference is pretty significant.

I have not bought anything from the CONCORD LP store yet. I'm not just holding out, I simply haven't scored enough CONCORD LP over all of my incursion runs (maybe 60+ sites) to actually buy anything of value. My CONCORD LP is worth nothing compared to the ISK payouts.

edit: I have 116,206 CONCORD loyalty points

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#29 - 2014-02-28 06:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Anhenka wrote:
P.S: Incursion is a sink, not a faucet. Unless I'm mistaken (I could be, Incursions are the one thing in eve I don't know **** about), then the primary payout for Incursions is in the form of Concord LP, not bounties.


Whelp... Ok then, my bad. I have lived in high/low/null/NPC/WH classes 1-5, but as I said, I know nothing about incursions. It's really the one part of eve I have never had an interest in.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-02-28 06:09:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
MMOs havent been able to stop botting in almost 20 years. Good luck.

Know how to stop botting? Quit putting in boring and repetitive mechanics and calling it game-play.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-02-28 07:14:32 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Solution: Make highsec mining not profitable enough to sustain an account all by itself.

I think I missed the part where you defined a problem. What is that a solution to?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#32 - 2014-02-28 07:50:00 UTC
Here's my thought on the batter.

CCP really wanted to find a place for loot spew.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2014-02-28 08:21:15 UTC
scimichar wrote:
This would mean more "bot" miners. A normal human miner wouldn't do it if it were not profitable. Therefore all that is left will be the bots. As it is mining makes mere pennies compared to other professions.


Pretty much this...

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#34 - 2014-02-28 08:30:20 UTC
This thread is further proof that TEST is only good at losing sov.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#35 - 2014-02-28 09:00:24 UTC
scimichar wrote:
This would mean more "bot" miners. A normal human miner wouldn't do it if it were not profitable. Therefore all that is left will be the bots. As it is mining makes mere pennies compared to other professions.


Since this is basically how things were 2 years ago, it can't be disproven or argued. This is what has happened and what will happen again if highsec profit drops again. Thread is a dead horse.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#36 - 2014-02-28 09:04:50 UTC
Not I havent read all the replies in this thread, but all I see when reading the OP is 'nerf HiSec',

I would be willing to bet that there are more BOT-miners in zerosec that in hisec. (Could be wrong here)

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Systemlord Rah
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-02-28 09:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Systemlord Rah
thats the wrong way miners need alot more time than other proffesions for a plex besides you
see all things black or white its true mining is not so aktive there are botters ,Multiboxing Monsters

and normal Multiboxers with around 2-8 accs
so what our isk are to much in your eyes

you my friend need to life as a miner for one month and try to mine your plex

simple math with OPTIMAL NUMBERS

20.000.000 ISK/h *1h per day *30 days = 600.000.000 and now say me
that a normal guy can maintain a mining acc per plex or buy his ships
and i did not consider emty belts other miners gankers etc
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#38 - 2014-02-28 09:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Systemlord Rah wrote:
Wrawr, bad man for proposing anything that negatively impacts miners, bad terrible man!


Reading is hard, writing is harder. Read the thread before spouting semi-coherent anger everywhere. Also take a min before posting so that people can read what you write without having to try and fit it together like a puzzle.

We are already well past the original terrible idea of "Get rid of highsec miners"


P.S. Saying people should mine for a plex really should be against the Geneva Convention of EVE. Yulai something or another probably.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-02-28 11:12:14 UTC
Systemlord Rah wrote:
you my friend need to life as a miner for one month and try to mine your plex

I know it takes a pretty small fraction of the month.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#40 - 2014-02-28 11:20:26 UTC
Koffin Nail wrote:
wrong, wrong and wrong...

want to remove the bots or at least lower the amount of them, increase the difficulty. Take rats from null, put them in empire. Deep null, BS rats that hit like a freight train, eat hammerheads like munchies.

Win/Win miners learn how to tank, and defend, have backup to kill rats. Can't afk without risking loss of ship to rats.



Yeah Null ratting in Highsec! What could go possible go wrong?!