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Why are many people on these forums so negative, and so hostile?

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Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#481 - 2014-02-27 20:25:08 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Mandarine wrote:
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.fi/2013/08/catalyst-ganking-guide.html
"To loot regularly, you need a looter pilot, who should not be on the same account as your scout. She can share the account with the ganker, third account is better. She can fly a looting cruiser. Warp to the scout, loot and warp out."
Using Gevlon Goblin as a source? That's like using the Westboro Baptist Church as a source for discussion on the ethics of religion.


Why do you say this? he seems quite knowledgeable and resourceful, while also very toxic.


Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mandarine wrote:


I don´t think sandox games have to be watered-down, I think that the type of gamer who develops glee by witnessing his own self (i:e. not his character) being the cause of the RL distress of some unknown Joe, which he has created by using a video game as a platform, has no place in an online game. Three strikes and he should be IP banned, so the sandbox can accommodate "regular" gamers who enjoy having fun with each other instead of at each other´s expense.


Guys, remember when I started talking about the Tyranny of the Thin Skinned? This is it in a nutshell.

You can go jump in a lake btw, Mandarine. If you want a game like that, gtfo out of EVE. EVE is my game, EVE is the game for people who actually give one ephemeral damn about player freedom, and player choice. EVE is a game where the choice *not* to defend yourself can and does have consequences.

Your nanny state, legislate-on-hurt-feelings crap belongs in a themepark MMO. Although hell, even in World of Warcrap, the GMs won't permaban someone who trips over your feelings.



You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. Absolutely not. If I could change something however, I´d remove CONCORD and gate guns.

What I don´t want is toxic people in a gaming community, that is, people who log in with the express purpose of inflicting emotional harm on others, and who couldn´t care less about the ingame narratives.

Now, this is the kind of post I would report, were I a jerk looking to reap some cheap Schadenfreude. Why are you mad at me? Did I hit a nerve?


Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#482 - 2014-02-27 20:27:48 UTC
Mandarine wrote:


You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. ?


IP banning, in your own admission, thousands of real players isn't changing the game? Spin faster.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#483 - 2014-02-27 20:28:53 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:

Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.


There's a lot of people that feel this way, and they have formed several such communities. The problem is that the vast majority of people are completely ok with "the crazies," while the people that want to do what you describe are in the minority.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#484 - 2014-02-27 20:30:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mandarine wrote:
Why do you say this? he seems quite knowledgeable and resourceful, while also very toxic.
Gevlon has his head stuck so far up his own backside that when he talks his sphincter moves. He's of the opinion that he is considerably better than everyone, at everything, despite evidence to the contrary.

He's so bad that TEST kicked him, and the New Order disowned him.
Quote:
You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. Absolutely not. If I could change something however, I´d remove CONCORD and gate guns.
Yet you suggest that CCP clamp down on the "griefers" and gankers so that they attract millions of players, removal of Concord would achieve the exact opposite.
Quote:
What I don´t want is toxic people in a gaming community, that is, people who log in with the express purpose of inflicting emotional harm on others making stuff go boom, and who couldn´t care less about the ingame narratives.
Those "toxic people" are what drives the game narratives, get rid of them and you're left with a really mediocre PvE game.
Quote:
Now, this is the kind of post I would report, were I a jerk looking to reap some cheap Schadenfreude. Why are you mad at me? Did I hit a nerve?
I don't see him being mad, I see him calling it as he sees it. All evidence points to the fact that you'd like to see Eve become a copy of all the other MMO's out there, pretty shite (IMHO)

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Marsha Mallow
#485 - 2014-02-27 20:30:18 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.

Which is exactly what existing players would encourage. So we can kill you in batches, rather than one at a time.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#486 - 2014-02-27 20:30:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mandarine wrote:


You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. ?


IP banning, in your own admission, thousands of real players isn't changing the game? Spin faster.


That would be akin to thinking that the rules of soccer are changed when a player gets expelled from the international federation.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#487 - 2014-02-27 20:32:01 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:


Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.


You think after 10 years (with many original players still playing and coming back to the game, and people like me who started later but have been playing for 5, 6, 7 ect years) need you to make us aware of anything?

What you don't seem to grasp is that you're the misfit outsider, the rest of us are the norm.

You say you haven't been playing long, but if the game situation and community ticks you off so much that you post more in a couple weeks than most eve players post in a lifetime, doesn't that indicate to you that it might be you that is the problem?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#488 - 2014-02-27 20:32:29 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mandarine wrote:


You people think I want to change this game in a way that would suit me. ?


IP banning, in your own admission, thousands of real players isn't changing the game? Spin faster.


That would be akin to thinking that the rules of soccer are changed when a player gets expelled from the international federation.


No, it's akin to suggesting that if any team attempts an onside kick (American football), or anything that resembles an onside kick, that you should ban their entire team.

Pretty sure that would change football quite a bit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#489 - 2014-02-27 20:33:52 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

You say you haven't been playing long, but if the game situation and community ticks you off so much that you post more in a couple weeks than most eve players post in a lifetime, doesn't that indicate to you that it might be you that is the problem?


If they possessed the capacity for introspective thought, they would be unable to maintain their beliefs. So of course it doesn't indicate that.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#490 - 2014-02-27 20:35:42 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
Why do you say this? he seems quite knowledgeable and resourceful, while also very toxic.
Largely because he has a history of being completely unable to look at anything in any terms other than ISK, and being very unimaginative even in matters where ISK is meaningful — a perspective he tries to peddle as deeply knowledgeable and clever even as anyone with a clue quickly spots that it's a load of tripe.

For that particular article, there are also some curious details where his information is just plain old outdated and incorrect. It is a bunch of received wisdom filtered through a very narrow conception of what is relevant.

Quote:
What I don´t want is toxic people in a gaming community, that is, people who log in with the express purpose of inflicting emotional harm on others, and who couldn´t care less about the ingame narratives.
Well, good news: doing so is already a bannable offence and has been so since roughly forever.
Erica Dusette
Division 13
#491 - 2014-02-27 20:36:53 UTC
Relevant.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#492 - 2014-02-27 20:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
This is basically the "people who shoot pixel guns become mass murderers" argument. The counter-argument is "give blood, play rugby:" People routinely agree to pound the crap out of each other under controlled circumstances, then shake hands and go out for a beer afterward. And yeah, there are lots of fouls committed in those games, too.

EVE is not only an example of those controlled circumstances, but as an added bonus, even if someone blows up your 20 billion ISK Navy Raven, you still have all of your teeth! And if you're a good sport about losing your ship, as hockey and rugby and MMA players are about losing their matches, you might find your hand shaken and if you go to a player meet, someone might buy you a beer.

The assumption that people who blow your ship up are sociopaths seems to me like a way to assure yourself that, even though you just lost, you're still way better than that other guy. You aren't.

More on topic, I don't think the forum necessarily reflects the player base. I've found EVE players to be mostly friendly and high-spirited, no matter what they're doing. The forums are more testy and perhaps suffer from a certain amount of received wisdom, but some of that is due to the same topics coming up again, and again, and again, and again. As a former administrator of a (much smaller) forum back in the day, I understand. The forums could be nicer. This thread is (clearly!) not a step in that direction.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#493 - 2014-02-27 20:37:25 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.

Which is exactly what existing players would encourage. So we can kill you in batches, rather than one at a time.


No worries! I'll judge your actions upon personal observation.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#494 - 2014-02-27 20:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Batelle wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:

Personally, i do not care about having them removed. I just think we as a community need to work on spreading awareness. So the crazies can fly around trying to stab everyone, while the rest of us share information that can lead to all of us having a better, more enjoyable time.


There's a lot of people that feel this way, and they have formed several such communities. The problem is that the vast majority of people are completely ok with "the crazies," while the people that want to do what you describe are in the minority.


Exactly.

People like me, who accept the game and it's community as is, who marvel and the creativeness of the so called "bad people" and who pvp in the game by becoming adept at not dying to them lol.

I once offered an analogy that EVE is like a Plain in Africa with lions and gazelles. The Lions of course are trying to eat the gazelles. The good Gazzelles are running around eating whatever damn grass they please, jumping over the lions, tickling them while they sleep and having a merry old time.

The bad gazelles are cowering in a cave somewhere writing Strongly Worded Letters to the U.N. asking for them to send peacekeepers to nerf (IP ban) the Lions.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#495 - 2014-02-27 20:39:29 UTC
Eve is not about the choices other people make - stop deflecting.

Eve is about the choices you make.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#496 - 2014-02-27 20:40:21 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
even if someone blows up your 20 billion ISK Navy Raven, you still have all of your teeth! And if you're a good sport about losing your ship,


I'll bet good money right now someone lost a 20 bil isk raven, banged his head into a keyboard and lost of tooth. It has to have happened at least once!
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#497 - 2014-02-27 20:41:19 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Gevlon has his head stuck so far up his own backside that when he talks his sphincter moves. He's of the opinion that he is considerably better than everyone, at everything, despite evidence to the contrary.

He's so bad that TEST kicked him, and the New Order disowned him.

Yet you suggest that CCP clamp down on the "griefers" and gankers so that they attract millions of players, removal of Concord would achieve the exact opposite.

Those "toxic people" are what drives the game narratives, get rid of them and you're left with a really ****** PvE game.

I don't see him being mad, I see him calling it as he see's it. All evidence points to the fact that you'd like to see Eve become a copy of all the other MMO's out there, pretty shite (IMHO)



Gevlon seems to have a high opinion of himself, yes, but is he a bad player? when people gang up on someone successful and say he´s a zero, it´s usually because of jealousy.

No need for CONCORD nor gate guns in a game in which players are, well, gamers who seek ingame narratives, rather than Schadenfreude.
That would require a plethora of GMs tho, to process the inevitable griefing complaints, But with IP permaban, you´d quickly see a stable environment, the griefing/ganking type is not as numerous as they would have people believe.

Toxic people only drive their own RL narrative, which drives the ingame one indirectly. There is no need for them, standard fun-loving gamers are totally capable of huge battles and backstabbing, only, without being jerks about it.

If you think the ganker type is what makes EvE enjoyable, you definitely fall into the masochist category (which is the mirror of the sadist one, in the unconscious business plan).
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#498 - 2014-02-27 20:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Dersen Lowery wrote:
This is basically the "people who shoot pixel guns become mass murderers" argument. The counter-argument is "give blood, play rugby:" People routinely agree to pound the crap out of each other under controlled circumstances, then shake hands and go out for a beer afterward. And yeah, there are lots of fouls committed in those games, too.

EVE is not only an example of those controlled circumstances, but as an added bonus, even if someone blows up your 20 billion ISK Navy Raven, you still have all of your teeth! And if you're a good sport about losing your ship, as hockey and rugby and MMA players are about losing their matches, you might find your hand shaken and if you go to a player meet, someone might buy you a beer.

The assumption that people who blow your ship up are sociopaths seems to me like a way to assure yourself that, even though you just lost, you're still way better than that other guy. You aren't.

More on topic, I don't think the forum necessarily reflects the player base. I've found EVE players to be mostly friendly and high-spirited, no matter what they're doing. The forums are more testy and perhaps suffer from a certain amount of received wisdom, but some of that is due to the same topics coming up again, and again, and again, and again. As a former administrator of a (much smaller) forum back in the day, I understand. The forums could be nicer. This thread is (clearly!) not a step in that direction.


You state that I am not allowed to use an absolute in my argument because people who hurt others in games aren't necessarily mass murders. Though I'm not using an absolute, my argument is based on the uncertainty principle and observed evidence.

Then you say that people who get their ships blown up by people are not better off than the other guy. You state an absolute. The person who lose his ship is not better. That is not true, you cannot possibly know that. You can come to a believed conclusion based on your observed evidence, but it's not necessarily true.

But that means I can too.
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#499 - 2014-02-27 20:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Thorne
Mandarine wrote:

Gevlon seems to have a high opinion of himself, yes, but is he a bad player? when people gang up on someone successful and say he´s a zero, it´s usually because of jealousy.


Gevlon planned to create a corp where corp chat would not be allowed, as it would interfere with making ISK. That should be enough to tell you what kind of person he is.

Edit: I should say, what kind of player, not what kind of person. Big smile
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#500 - 2014-02-27 20:45:39 UTC
Mandarine wrote:


Toxic people only drive their own RL narrative, which drives the ingame one indirectly. There is no need for them, standard fun-loving gamers are totally capable of huge battles and backstabbing, only, without being jerks about it.



This is the funniest part.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.