These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why are many people on these forums so negative, and so hostile?

First post First post
Author
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#361 - 2014-02-27 17:40:50 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:

CCP OWNS IT ALL

angle?

Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.

So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.

and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.

Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You can believe what you like. But unless you can prove a connection, then others can dismiss your stance.
So just as you can believe you blew my attempt, you have again failed to prove it and thus I will dismiss your stance.

But thanks for playing. Big smile


The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#362 - 2014-02-27 17:41:35 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
This technicality has already been addressed and disregarded, though it is amusing that some people seem to be either incapable of grasping the deeper issues being talked about here, and have been trying for no less than 4-5 pages repeatedly (without contributing anything else or even understanding what else is going on) "nail" the discussion on the known and understood fact that CCP owns everything in EVE. Reminds me of little kiddies trying to participate in adult conversation, but who don't really understand at all what is going on.

CCP owns the game and everything in it, but for example:

You and others are at a friends house. The house owner pulls out the dreaded Monopoly game (which he also owns).
You and your friends sit down to a game of Monopoly (which he owns) in his house (which he also owns).
Everyone is dealt out their share of monehs at start, as are the rules of teh game.
Then, at some point, one of the guys takes from your stacks of monehs a few 100s without your (or the game/house owners) permission.
That is theft from you, though it is the game owners property and his house in which the game and the property is held.
Even if you play his game of Monopoly, in his house, with his special house rules which ALLOW stealing, it is still theft by definition.
This because in the context of the game, that moneh was yours to use for the purposes of playing the game.
You have an internal contextual right to possession of it, though ofc actual ownership of it is still vested in the game/house owner.
This is meant as humour I hope. Shocked

I wouldn't like to make a judgement about your argument, before finding that out first.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Mag's
Azn Empire
#363 - 2014-02-27 17:43:46 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:

CCP OWNS IT ALL

angle?

Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.

So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.

and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.

Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You can believe what you like. But unless you can prove a connection, then others can dismiss your stance.
So just as you can believe you blew my attempt, you have again failed to prove it and thus I will dismiss your stance.

But thanks for playing. Big smile


The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice.
But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two.

Thanks again for playing. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#364 - 2014-02-27 17:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Divine Entervention wrote:
Because they're incapable of being positive. They exist in an emotional state where their predominant feelings are sadness, anger, and jealousy. People who are angry are typically highly motivated by that anger. So they look for a platform to spread their anger, and it results in forum posts where people are insulting others trying to make them feel upset as they do themselves, transference.

And that's the rational people. Being a victim of your own anger is sad, yes, but it's somewhat natural.

What's unnatural is the fact that some of these people aren't mad about anything. They're just genuinely bad people who gain the satisfaction at the feeling that their actions have caused a negative emotional impact on someone else.

Good on topic post with relevance to this thread.

In relation to the quoted bit, while I personally think you are being a bit hard on yourself, because no one is incapable of being positive, realising your issue is a good start. Hopefully from this point forward you can change and everyone can discuss things rationally together.

PS. Why do I care? Primarily because if all we want to do is discuss the same thing in every thread, then there is no need for separate threads as there's only 1 idea being discussed. The whole purpose of different threads is to discuss different topics and create threads of information useful to others in the future. When topics merge towards commonality, both of those aspects disappear. We may as well drop all threads and just have a running page of random thoughts.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#365 - 2014-02-27 17:45:59 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice.
Nope. The person at the keyboard is the black box you're trying to make predictions about. The connection is the method and mechanisms that let you make those predictions — a connection you have decided to completely replace with baseless assumptions.
Mandarine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2014-02-27 17:46:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Do you know who talks about tears a lot?

CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.

If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.



Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad.

I also think that the sandbox environment is the best, but you have to remove from it the kids who enjoy nothing more than to be out-of-narrative disturbances and seeing other kids mad.

CCP´s business plan, for now, focuses on selling multiple accounts to a small portion of the gamer community, the one which is made of sadists and masochists (who all need alts). When the servers capabilities will be able to accommodate players in the million order, you´ll probably see quite a change in the policy, to bring in the regular type of gamer.

Until then, I´m having fun stating the obvious, and seeing the Griefer Defence Force peddling their trade.



Salvos Rhoska wrote:

In that you yourself demonstrate the behavior and traits you are projecting onto someone else in that specific description of them.

I find your description of them, is actually more accurately a description of yourself, than it is of them.


I´m saying that Tippia and Benny Ohu are blatantly dishonest, when they pretend being oblivious to what has been stated for years, by gankers themselves: that the tears are the supreme prize, and when they pretend not to understand that those gankers are outside the magic circle, that is, do not care about impersonating their character, but are enjoying the thought that their own, RL, self, has caused some random gamer to rage IRL.

I would discuss arguments they´d present to me, should they present any. But their only line of defence is saying "that´s not true", which is the being oblivious I´m describing above.

How exactly am I being dishonest there?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#367 - 2014-02-27 17:48:06 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


Is it right what they do?
No.
Should their ability to act that way be removed?
No.

But their actions ultimately only reflect poorly on themselves.


Yes, and that's exactly how I feel as a gay man of 48 years about what just went down in Arizona. It's just the way life is. Everyone deserves to have whatever their beliefs and ideals are. The public as a whole will judge though, by reputation and observation.

It's always astounded me, this seemingly magical power I have to terrify those people straight out of their rational minds....down to pursuing political legislation of their beliefs. Now, that's a Super-Power, and most indeed Lol


Using EVE veteran logic, I could tell you to move out of Arizona into a friendlier state.

But that's not a real answer. I'm sorry for the situation you're in. You should be able to live how you wish, as long as it doesn't negatively and directly impact someone else's desire to live in that same fashion.

We're still growing up, as a species. We're not that far off from when we were lighting people on fire for casting spells.

We're getting better, maybe not as fast as we should now that we have social media and the internet to connect us and help us realize we're all essentially the same, but with people like EVE's griefers who's only goal it is being to cause misery in others for their own personal enjoyment, it's understandable why we are seeing these flare-ups, glimpses into the potential nastiness of others.

Luckily for us, the internet will be changing in a relatively short amount of time. Anonymity will soon be a thing of the past. That will be a glorious time.


Thanks for the sentiment. Big smile

But I live in Florida.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#368 - 2014-02-27 17:48:17 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Do you know who talks about tears a lot?

CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.

If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.



Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad.


Thankfully, it doesn't matter what you think.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Mag's
Azn Empire
#369 - 2014-02-27 17:49:29 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Mandarine wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Do you know who talks about tears a lot?

CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.

If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.



Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad.


Thankfully, it doesn't matter what you think.
I do think better when wearing a cosy, that's for sure. Big smile

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#370 - 2014-02-27 17:50:21 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:


I was right though right? That's what your objective was? The whole:

CCP OWNS IT ALL

angle?

Also, I've seen no where in the EULA that I may not apply my moral beliefs onto actions taken by people within EVE.

So that means, according to CCP, I'm allowed to believe that people who do bad things in game are bad people out.

and I must say, Much respect for you coming back and continuing to talk with me after I completely blew your attempt to technicality bash me into a back peddling "but if i mean" stance.

Most people would've just faded away. +1 im going to like you.
You can believe what you like. But unless you can prove a connection, then others can dismiss your stance.
So just as you can believe you blew my attempt, you have again failed to prove it and thus I will dismiss your stance.

But thanks for playing. Big smile


The connection is the person sitting at the keyboard making the choice.
But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two.

Thanks again for playing. Big smile


it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once.

It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction.

Because it's impossible to truly know what someone will do since that would require clairvoyance or super natural powers, you have to make a decision regarding the the information that's been provided to you by that individual's previous interactions with you. Where does the game end with him? Potentially, it could never end. He may very well extend this in game facet of his existence into the real world. We cannot know for certainty that he does not, so it's best to play it safe and choose to never trust him again, never giving him that opportunity based on his previous decision to show you he makes the choice to be a criminal.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#371 - 2014-02-27 17:52:50 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
you are clearly of Tippia´s breed, that is, incapable of discussing anything without being frontally, blatantly dishonest, pretending not knowing what is common knowledge on this forum and in the videogaming community.

Makes a lot of sense though that you people defend gankers, since you act like them: your online actions aim at causing discomfort in other internet users.

let me make this clear to you

you are making general claims about people who are playing a videogame in a manner the videogame is intended to be played that are actually pretty insulting

when adults have a discussion we verbalise the reasoning behind statements we make. we base our claims on facts, we link the claim to the facts, we provide evidence. you have not. until you do, everything you say can be refuted with 'lol no'.

for the record, 'everyone knows' is a fallacy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#372 - 2014-02-27 17:53:37 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad.
Ok. That still doesn't explain why you've chosen to play a game that is purposefully designed around what bothers you.

Quote:
I´m saying that Tippia and Benny Ohu are blatantly dishonest, when they pretend being oblivious to what has been stated for years, by gankers themselves: that the tears are the supreme prize, and when they pretend not to understand that those gankers are outside the magic circle
Just one problem: we're not pretending that at all. We're simply asking you to provide evidence and arguments to support your claim. In particular, we have problems with the unreliable sample you use, unproven generalisations you make, and with the equally unproven distinctions you rely on, without which any generalisations you make become meaningless anyway.

Quote:
But their only line of defence is saying "that´s not true"
…which, of course, none of us has ever used.

Quote:
How exactly am I being dishonest there?
You're lying about what I and Benny are saying; you're lying about what our arguments are; and you're lying about what our complaints with your lack of argumentation are.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#373 - 2014-02-27 17:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mag's wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Mandarine wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Do you know who talks about tears a lot?

CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.

If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.



Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad.


Thankfully, it doesn't matter what you think.
I do think better when wearing a cosy, that's for sure. Big smile

The thinking cosy Lol

Is it the puppies or the kittens cosy? Enquiring minds want to know which is more suited to thinking.

On topic, as a self confessed highsec carebear I may not like what the more nefarious types do in Eve, but I will continue to support their right to do so as long as they remain within the rules of the game.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2014-02-27 17:55:04 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
I would discuss arguments they´d present to me, should they present any. But their only line of defence is saying "that´s not true", which is the being oblivious I´m describing above.

no, it's on you to make your own argument to support the claims you make. there is no need for a 'defence' (what are we defending?) until you do.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#375 - 2014-02-27 17:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Divine Entervention wrote:
it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once.
Nope. He has only demonstrated the ability to think of you as someone who's playing the same game he is. You have no idea what he thinks about you as a person. Once again, you're making unsupported assumptions about the relationship between his in-game behaviour and his out-of-game behaviour, and you're passing judgment about that out-of-game person based on nothing but those assumptions.

Quote:
It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction.
And that has nothing to do with in-game or out-of-game behaviour — much less any supposed relationship between the two.

Quote:
You've demonstrated multiple times now that you do not believe you are the person making your choices.
Not once, actually. That's just you making prejudiced claims and using your own assumptions as a justification for being hostile and abusive towards other people.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#376 - 2014-02-27 17:57:53 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Thankfully, it doesn't matter what you think.
I do think better when wearing a cosy, that's for sure. Big smile

The thinking cosy Lol

Is it the puppies or the kittens cosy? Enquiring minds want to know which is more suited to thinking.
I've found the Rabbit cosy to be better suited for the task.
It may be the ears.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#377 - 2014-02-27 18:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mandarine wrote:
I also think that the sandbox environment is the best, but you have to remove from it the kids who enjoy nothing more than to be out-of-narrative disturbances and seeing other kids mad.

CCP´s business plan, for now, focuses on selling multiple accounts to a small portion of the gamer community, the one which is made of sadists and masochists (who all need alts). When the servers capabilities will be able to accommodate players in the million order, you´ll probably see quite a change in the policy, to bring in the regular type of gamer.
It's a good job that CCP aren't trying to attract millions of gamers, they're not trying to be EA or Blizzard.

All evidence to date points to CCP being quite happy to continue with the current formula of Eve, and remain as an independent developer producing a highly successful, long lived and brutal MMORPG in the vein of Ultima Online, from which many of the original devs hail.

Many game devs have found, to their chagrin, that trying to be WoW 2.0 is a surefire path to failure.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Mag's
Azn Empire
#378 - 2014-02-27 18:03:36 UTC
Divine Entervention wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two.

Thanks again for playing. Big smile


it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once.

It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction.

Because it's impossible to truly know what someone will do since that would require clairvoyance or super natural powers, you have to make a decision regarding the the information that's been provided to you by that individual's previous interactions with you. Where does the game end with him? Potentially, it could never end. He may very well extend this in game facet of his existence into the real world. We cannot know for certainty that he does not, so it's best to play it safe and choose to never trust him again, never giving him that opportunity based on his previous decision to show you he makes the choice to be a criminal.
All of which are assumptions on your part, without showing the connection.

I had high hopes for you and could see the game you were playing quite early on. But with your latest attempts, it's all looking like weak sauce.

Then of course, we can see you totally failed against Tippia and threw in the towel. What a shame. Sad

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#379 - 2014-02-27 18:05:18 UTC
Mandarine wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Do you know who talks about tears a lot?

CCP devs. The guys that make the game. You can go to youtube and find dev interviews where extracting tears is much talked about.

If you have a problem with people who like to extract tears, why are you choosing to play a game made by tear extractors, for tear extractors? I mean, it obviously bothers you.



Because I think that RPGs should be designed to play pretend and have fun, not to get mad or rejoice in making people mad.


In think thats a rather authoritarian view. What does it matter to you what some company does with it RPG?

If you don't like it, you could always by CCP and ban everyone you don't like from EVE. Alternately you could ignore the fact that games like EVE exist and be happy playing games that moderate behaviors much more.

People like you have always perplexed me. I'm not like a lot of EVE players (I actually like PVE, even that mission with the idiotic Damsel who keeps getting herself kidnapped). Yet it's easy to tolerate the different players who play EVE because without them EVE would suck.

Quote:

I also think that the sandbox environment is the best, but you have to remove from it the kids who enjoy nothing more than to be out-of-narrative disturbances and seeing other kids mad.

CCP´s business plan, for now, focuses on selling multiple accounts to a small portion of the gamer community, the one which is made of sadists and masochists (who all need alts). When the servers capabilities will be able to accommodate players in the million order, you´ll probably see quite a change in the policy, to bring in the regular type of gamer.

Until then, I´m having fun stating the obvious, and seeing the Griefer Defence Force peddling their trade.


There it is. There is the smoking gun.

You think people like you are 'regular'. Hell, you might even be right because most MMOs coddle people in a warm blanket of safety and false hero-hood.

Why in hell would anyone want to be 'regular' or surrounded by 'regular' people who can't figure out how to do anything extraordinary in a game or in real life? Do you like boredom?

We see this thinking all the time here, the "EVE would get more subs if {insert anti-EVE feature here}" idea. Why not play a game that isn't made by psycho pvp players instead and let the "griefers" (and their allies, such as me) have their own space. Must everything be some bland "equality" type thing.

I think these ideas (of yours) are the true cancer. not content to control the bulk of the MMO world, you types must also have the EVEs of the world to. No niche or difference is allowed.


Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#380 - 2014-02-27 18:11:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
Mag's wrote:
Divine Entervention wrote:
Mag's wrote:
But you've again failed to show a connection. You've only stated that because a person does A in game, it means he will do A in RL. But have yet to show the connection between the two.

Thanks again for playing. Big smile


it means that he's established a precedent. He's demonstrated a capability to think of you as a person worth extorting at least once.

It's impossible to definitively say he will extort you again, in person, because of the uncertainty principle that exists with all human interaction.

Because it's impossible to truly know what someone will do since that would require clairvoyance or super natural powers, you have to make a decision regarding the the information that's been provided to you by that individual's previous interactions with you. Where does the game end with him? Potentially, it could never end. He may very well extend this in game facet of his existence into the real world. We cannot know for certainty that he does not, so it's best to play it safe and choose to never trust him again, never giving him that opportunity based on his previous decision to show you he makes the choice to be a criminal.
All of which are assumptions on your part, without showing the connection.

I had high hopes for you and could see the game you were playing quite early on. But with your latest attempts, it's all looking like weak sauce.

Then of course, we can see you totally failed against Tippia and threw in the towel. What a shame. Sad


tippia doesn't have the ability to consider points of view other than his own. It's useless arguing with him because despite what is a very clear connection, he refuses to acknowledge.

Much like you, he does not understand the human connection between all of us playing the game. You view us like your play things, toys to be abused for your amusement.

you're not suppose to light us on fire and blow us up with firecrackers just to see us get mad that you wish to prove you're a bad person. You're suppose to want to play with us, respectfully.

But you don't see that, all you see us as is tools to make yourself feel better. But I'm not your tool, I'm a human being and I have feelings, which you obviously do not.

Which is why you are broken.

You're probably even laughing that I'm calling you broken. thinking to yourself "man he must be so mad to call me broken".

But it's not an emotionally charged statement. It's an objective analyses of your repeated insistence that you do not believe your choices are a representation of you.

But you'll never understand and accept because you lack that quality the rest of us have.